Saw my first Greenline today.... TOWING A CARAVAN

[Sonner]

I kid you not, the Greenline estate i saw today, it was towing a rather large caravan!

surely if you want a small estate and wish to tow a big caravan you wouldn't go for a Greenline 2 but a 105bhp 1.6 cr.

oh well :-(

[BossFox]

I bet that needs a fair bit of throttle to keep the speed up.

[Guest]

Probably not, it's got 180nm of torque low down, that's more than the 1.2TSI 105ps engine! Amazing little cars...

[BossFox]

Probably not, it's got 180nm of torque low down, that's more than the 1.2TSI 105ps engine! Amazing little cars...

I know, I drive one. but the wind resistance at speed could be interesting for a small engine, particularly when on an incline.

Mind you, I personally wouldn't tow with a 1.2 petrol either unless the trailer/caravan was quite light.

[Sonner]

http://www.caravansitesdirect.com/info/images/image_7_caravan_towing.jpg

this was the size of the caravan as well, it was huge, the size of caravan that normally you would tow with a T5/D5 type engine, not a 75bhp diesel.

having a look at the max braked towing weights on the fabia estate there is no way that caravan should be towed by a furby with front brakes that size

[logiclee]

http://www.caravansitesdirect.com/info/images/image_7_caravan_towing.jpg

this was the size of the caravan as well, it was huge, the size of caravan that normally you would tow with a T5/D5 type engine, not a 75bhp diesel.

having a look at the max braked towing weights on the fabia estate there is no way that caravan should be towed by a furby with front brakes that size

The Fabia Greenline11 has a maximum braked trailer weight of 1000kg. That rules it out of nearly every caravan on sale today except for a few very small and specific light weight designs.

My caravan is a mid sized single axle and weighs 1500kg.

The owner of the Greenline was not only driving illegally but without insurance and risking the lifes of other road users.

For new caravaners it's recommended that the maximum weight of the caravan does not exceed 85% of the cars kerbside weight. For experienced caravaners it's recommended that the caravans maximum weight does not exceed 100% of the cars kerbside weight.

On top of that advice you cannot exceed any of your cars rated weights and if you passed your test since 1997 or have been banned since 1997 you will have restrictions on your licence as to what weights you can tow.

Towing isn't all about peak torque figures either, the spread of torque and the gear ratio's play a much larger part. The Greenline has a high peak torque figure but only over a short rev band and long gearing for it's economy. The 1.2TSi has a very wide torque band which is why it's got higher bhp and low gearing to go with it, I'd say it would be a much more comfortable towcar.

I ran a Mondeo 2.0TDCi and a Mondeo 3.0V6 petrol back to back, the diesels peak torque figure was much higher but the 3.0 had 6th geared lower than the diesels 5th and the ratio's were much closer, the V6 also had an extra 70bhp. There was no comparison between the two, the diesel was hard work keeping it on the sweet spot towing 1500kg, the V6 was a joy to tow with with the same 1500kg a lot less stressfull apart from the fuel bills.

This is why the caravan club still recommend bhp/ton for towing outfits and not lbft/ton. You need to look at the overall package not peak figures. A 70bhp diesel will not be much use even if it has a high torque figure but you also wouldn't want a 200bhp TypeR Honda wih a torque band biased to 6000rpm+. For a good tow car you want good torque over a wide rpm band which will give reasonable bhp figure, then you need to look at the overall gearing and how close the ratios are.

Cheers

Lee

[Auric Goldfinger]

I think Caravaners should have there own forum..........

[rockhopper]

I found my remapped CR140 to be brilliant at keeping up to speed. Sweet spot was 4th gear at 60ish, around 3000rpm. Felt like it would go up a steep mountain :lol:

I like towing with lots of bhp & Nm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[logiclee]

I found my remapped CR140 to be brilliant at keeping up to speed. Sweet spot was 4th gear at 60ish, around 3000rpm. Felt like it would go up a steep mountain :lol:

I like towing with lots of bhp & Nm.

+1

I have a remapped CR140 DSG. 6th is around 31mph/1000rpm so even 6th is perfectly usuable for towing at 60mph, tows excellently. All the new manual Passats now come with Bluemotion tech as standard and 4th, 5th and 6th ratio's have been increased significantly, 6th is now around 37mph/1000rpm. Whattowcar.com has marked the new car down for it's towing ability as it now struggles to maintain the legal limit (60mph) in 5th. On an incline or headwind you would probably only have the first 4 ratio's to choose from.

That's why my old TDCi Mondeo was hard work, 5th and 6th were too high and the Ford engine needed 2000rpm to feel comfortable with 1500kg on the back, 1st was high two meaning pulling away needed carefull control of throttle and clutch to prevent bogging down or wheel spinning.

Get a big enough hill and you could probably substitute this Renault 5 for a Fabia :-)

Cheers

Lee

[Sonner]

Lol that is hilarious!!!

[The PM]

But frightening that idiots like that may share the road with us...

[wills]

But frightening that idiots like that may share the road with us...

<cough>bit frightening that anyone with a shed on wheels might share the road with us...</cough>

-Wills

[The PM]

If driven correctly they are no better and no worse than any HGV driven the same way... Many years ago when I used to tow I found that most of my problems were caused by inconsiderate car drivers who then caused problems for those behind me... I'd get the blame, no doubt, but in most cases it wasn't me!

Anyhow caravans were on the roads long before cars so they have more of a right to be there!!

Edited 5 November, 2011 by The PM

[Sonner]

ooops i've gone and started a caravaners forum here,

all i was saying is that i saw my first greenline the other day and the poor thing was towing a caravan twice the size of it(and porbs not legally)

i dislike caravan drivers/pwners hugely when there on the roads, not because of the speed they travel... that doesn't bother me in the slightiest as i drive on most A roads at 45/50mph myself,

what bothers me is some(not all) but most of the caravan pullers i see can't drive to save there lives.

especially, poor judgement at roundabouts and spacial awareness, always waiting in gaps they think are too small that i would confidently fit a bus through.

Edited 5 November, 2011 by Sonner

[logiclee]

If driven correctly they are no better and no worse than any HGV driven the same way...

And of course HGV's are restricted to 40mph single carraigeways and 56mph dual carraigeways and motorways. Cars towing can do 50mph single and 60mpg dual/motorway.

A modern car/caravan outfit if loaded correctly and matched correctly can easily keep up with normal traffic flow.

Unfortunately there is a small minority who usually drop into one of three ctatagories. There are those who think their low powered car can tow a big family caravan and a car full of kids, a boot full of luggage and 4 bikes on the roof. Then there is those who have little experience and think they know it all who will not load the caravan correctly and have it snaking all over the place. And finally those who think caravaning is a cheap past time so dont service their caravan every year and don't check the tyre pressures before they set off and don't change their tyres at 5 years old.

I would like to see a 3 yearly MOT or mandatory servicing on caravans as well stricter law enforcement on the dangerous outfits that are out on our roads.

Cheers

Lee

[Sonner]

+1 logiclee

[logiclee]

+1 logiclee

There is a growing movement whithin both big clubs ("The Caravan Club" and "The Camping and Caravanning Club") for some tighter restrictions as there are plenty of dangerous outfits on the roads.

Anyone with a license issued after 1997 can only tow an outfit upto a maximum allowable mass of 3500kg, that's about a Mondeo and mid sized caravan. There is a further restriction that the trailer maximum weight cannot exceed 100% of the cars kerbweight. If you want to go over this then you have to take a B+E test.

Both Clubs run excellent courses for inexperienced, includes loading, slow speed manouvering, reversing and high speed control.

20 years ago cars were less powerfull and caravans much lighter but now it's a little frightening that someone with no experience can buy a cheap powerfull 4X4 and a used twin axle caravan with no idea how to load it or tow it, no check on condition and then set off down the motorway in an outfit weighing over four and a half tonnes.

Cheers

Lee

[The PM]

what bothers me is some(not all) but most of the caravan pullers i see can't drive to save there lives.

And "some(not all) but most" car drivers are so much better?! Talk about generalizations! I see plenty of bad driving and most of it comes from solo car drivers rather than those towing or driving goods vehicles or PSVs... Someone towing and making a mess of things will certainly stand out more, but if you look carefully most "issues" with slower vehicles tend to be caused by impatient (and thus bad) driving by car drivers rather than the driver of the slower vehicle...

I would agree with Lee that caravans (and trailers) should be tested and their owners have some sort of test/course before being allowed out, but ordinary car drivers should also be made more aware of what to do when encountering long vehicles, from the basics of keeping back if they are not overtaking so others can make progress and being aware that those vehicles can, and do overtake, and allowing for that when planning to overtake them... A few bikers could do with learning that last one when overtaking cars...