HI, Hopefully someone on here can help me out please. I have had a long standing disagreement with the supplying Franchised deealer of my octy. When i received the V5 it showed on there that they had a recorded mileage of 27000 mile as of october 2009, I bought the car in Dec 2010 with the odometer showing 24500. I raised this immediately with the general manager who told me not to worry as DVLA have not got a clue what they are doing, BUT he would instigate a VMC for me. To this day i have not received a conclusion to this issue despite regularly chasing up. All i ever get is don't worry it's genuine. In Oct of this year i got through the post a letter from a firm of solicitors in Leeds basicly asking why I was the registered keeper of a car that did not belong to me. They went on to say that the vehicle, which i paid cash for, was still subject to an outstanding finance agreement with a balance of £11400. In the course of trying to sort this out, i have again taken up the clocking fight. I was told that it is possible to read the eprom? via VCDS to find the true mileage of the car as shown on: http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/EDC-15-Mileage.html. This shows that the recorded mileage in the ECU is very slightly under 52000, the odometer is now showing just over 33000. I took my car along to a different Skoda agent and requested that they read and verify the mileage for me. The software they use according to the tech i spoke to does not read to the 'depth' of VCDS and as such the only mileage reading he can obtain matches the odometer. If as i think it will, this case ends up in the county court, will VCDS be accepted as evidence over the dealers Skoda software output? The point of all this is how do i verify that the reading obtained by VCDS is true, in other words i need to be able to prove to the dealer or trading standards etc that the reading from VCDS is the 100% true mileage reading.

Thanks for your patience if you have got this far.

Hopefully someone can help

Ray

I would consider taking this up with Skoda UK & / or trading standards, If a franchised dealer is not being straight & honest with customers I would hope Skoda will take a dim view of it. If the dealer has actually said, yes the mileage is genuine it gets past the usual sticker you get saying as far as we know etc etc

Skoda may just have had warranty claims in the missing miles although this is unlikely.

There is a bit of a scam with some dealers who take cars less than 3 years old, pre the first MOT & if no warranty history shave a few miles off & create a new service history, its very uncommon but it does happen & not only on run of the mill cars.

I would have thought trading standards have access to software to verify mileage or confirm what you have used is acceptable in court

You will also have the previous owners details on the log book, you could try & get a tel no from directory enquires or write to them & find out what mileage they sold the car at

It is worth remembering that the mileage that VCDS displays is in KM's, so without working it out exactly looks to be about right.

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What an unusual but awful situation to be in.

I hope its not the local dealer :(

I wouldnt have a clue about the legality of VCDS when used in court but member brucethebear on this forum may be able to answer in more detail.

As said I would expect trading standards to have the facility to check the actual mileage and whatever they use that would be used as evidence in a court case.

Good luck with a resolution

These are the UK agents for VCDS

Have a chat with them, Im sure they will have supported claims in the past & could certainly advise you on VCDA & its acceptance in court

Gendan Limited

Unit 14 Llys Caer Felin

Felinfach

Swansea SA5 4HH

+44 0 1792 588002

ilexa Onboard Diagnostics

Truro, Cornwall TR2 4YF

p: +44 01726 884 010

f: +44 01726 808 021

Marshall's Industrial Ltd.

Volkswagen Power Systems & Components

IMPCO Gas Systems

Beadle Estate

Hithercroft Road, Wallingford,

Oxfordshire, UK

OX10 9DG

p: +44 (0) 1491 834666

f: +44 (0) 1491 839777

email: [email protected]

V-Tech UK Ltd.

SN Autohaus,

181, Forest Road,

Hainault, Essex

London, UK

IG6 3HZ.

Tel: +44 208 498 1288

Fax: +44 208 498 1289

Right just worked it out, 33,000 miles = 52,600 KM's, so it appears the dealer is correct about the mileage being genuine.

Everyone can now calm down.

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It is worth remembering that the mileage that VCDS displays is in KM's, so without working it out exactly looks to be about right.

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Yep, if the ECU said the mileage is 52000 then that ties in with what the odometer says as the ECU stores the mileage in KM.

Right just worked it out, 33,000 miles = 52,600 KM's, so it appears the dealer is correct about the mileage being genuine.

Everyone can now calm down.

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Oh how i wish it was that easy to explain, however the VCDS shows the readout in both Km and Miles as per the photo i hope i have attached :-)

If the pic doesn't show VCDS shows readings of 83551 Km and 51916 miles.

Ah... Have you presented this to the dealers that you got the car from?

Phil

Oh how i wish it was that easy to explain, however the VCDS shows the readout in both Km and Miles as per the photo i hope i have attached :-)

If the pic doesn't show VCDS shows readings of 83551 Km and 51916 miles.

51916 mi. = 83550.703 km

It could easily be that VCDS reads the km and converts to miles to save the user the trouble. IIRC Uwe Ross is american and they still work in miles, so having a field that does the conversion for you wouldn't be a major programming feat.

I thought when the car is sold to a dealership that they don't report the milage to the DVLA, just that it's effectively in their tender care. (IIRC the number of keepers doesn't go up and V5 shows the previous keeper's address).

The DVLA could have entered the figure wrongly. (7 and 4 are close on the number-pad). I've got to send my RFL form back as they've entered my surname wrongly and therefore as it doesn't match what they've got on the registration system, they won't issue a refund, yet.

Also, clocking by 2500 miles? hardly seems worth the effort really.

And, as a final, the finance should have been cleared by the previous keeper. Sounds very very iffy to me. Hope it all gets soertde soon though.

51916 mi. = 83550.703 km

It could easily be that VCDS reads the km and converts to miles to save the user the trouble. IIRC Uwe Ross is american and they still work in miles, so having a field that does the conversion for you wouldn't be a major programming feat.

I thought when the car is sold to a dealership that they don't report the milage to the DVLA, just that it's effectively in their tender care. (IIRC the number of keepers doesn't go up and V5 shows the previous keeper's address).

The DVLA could have entered the figure wrongly. (7 and 4 are close on the number-pad). I've got to send my RFL form back as they've entered my surname wrongly and therefore as it doesn't match what they've got on the registration system, they won't issue a refund, yet.

Also, clocking by 2500 miles? hardly seems worth the effort really.

And, as a final, the finance should have been cleared by the previous keeper. Sounds very very iffy to me. Hope it all gets soertde soon though.

The car hasn't been rolled back by only 2500 miles! it has been rolled back by 12 months of motoring PLUS 2500. The reading as per the V5 was 27000 in 2009. I bought the car and took delivery in december 2010 a period of some 14 months between the time of the recorded 27000 and my buying the car. As i say the roll back covers the mileage covered from Oct 2009 to dec 2010 PLUS 2500 miles

The reading from VCDS is independent to the odometer. It is easy to "clock" one of these cars but not so easy to alter the mileage stored in the ECU (which is what VCDS reads).

Good luck getting it sorted.

Am I missing something here?

The speedo says 33,000 miles but the VCDS says 52,000 miles? That's a roll back of 19,000 miles and that's not a small rollback. That's blatant fraud. Have you contacted the police?

Good luck with sorting this out

The reading from VCDS is independent to the odometer. It is easy to "clock" one of these cars but not so easy to alter the mileage stored in the ECU (which is what VCDS reads).

Good luck getting it sorted.

Hi 'Shark' you have seen me many times at your place. should i just say Black octy, bolero, bluetooth etc etc and son's toledo?

Think i need to see you on your return

It still amazes me that people buya car from a dealer, independent or main, and don't HPI a car.

A comprehensive check will show up if there is outstanding finance on a car, and if there is a mileage discrepancy before you purchase. VMC checks aren't worth the paper they are written on as they just use the DVLA data. Did you get the original service book, any MoT certificates and receipts for services with the car?

I used to work at a main dealers for many years, you would be amazed how many times the finance took almost a month to pay off from when a car was traded in. A well sought after car can be turned round in a matter of days and back on the road with a new owner, whilst the dealer waits to the last possible date to settle the outstanding finance - an extra few grand in the bank for a few weeks is good for the cashflow, especially when multiplied by the number of part exchanges that can pass through their hands.

Mistakes can be made though, by the dealers and the finance companies, so I suggest you get straight back there with a letter addressed to the dealer principal expressing your grievances and asking for written confirmation from them that there is no outstanding finance and that the mileage is genuine.

As others have said, it is easy to 'clock' a car before its first MoT, especially with 20K service intervals nowadays. There is no record anywhere of the mileage of a 2 year old 15k mile car other than at the dealers if it has had warranty work.

The dealer should be able to pull the full history of the car - all warranty and recall work - from the Skoda systems and show you proof of the mileage. In this case, unfortunately, it does look like it has been clocked.

My car is hitting 144K now and VCDS is about 8 miles different to the odometer for reference.

I wouldnt have a clue about the legality of VCDS when used in court but member brucethebear on this forum may be able to answer in more detail.

VCDS ( or VAG-COM) mileage data has been used in a court case as one of the indicators that mileage had been altered.

Mileage and KM are shown in our tool. http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/EDC-15-Mileage.html Mileage is calculated as the ECU represents all mileage in KM.

Edited 9 December, 201114 yr by bearthebruce

VCDS ( or VAG-COM) mileage data has been used in a court case as one of the indicators that mileage had been altered.

Mileage and KM are shown in our tool. http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/EDC-15-Mileage.html Mileage is calculated as the ECU represents all mileage in KM.

Thank s Bear, thats really good to know, am now awaiting a reply from Skoda UK regarding all of this. hopefully it won't need to go to county court.

Hi 'Shark' you have seen me many times at your place. should i just say Black octy, bolero, bluetooth etc etc and son's toledo?

Think i need to see you on your return

Yes indeed, I guessed it would be you Ray, I'm back to work next week so feel free to give me a call

Hi All, Thanks for all your suggestions and interest in my 'little' problem, I'm now happy to report that A) the finance company concerned have concluded their investigation and whilst they maintain there is finance outstanding, they are satisfied I bought the car as a totally innocent party and as such, whilst still persuing the outstanding amount through 'other channels' they have written to me granting me full title to the car and removing it from the HPI system, although in fairness to the dealer concerned it did show clear on those checks at the time of both their own purchase of the car and also the time of my own purchase.

And after meeting finally with someone with some authority today and presenting my VCDS evidence to him I can say no more than the dealership have today been fantastic in the handling of the matter regarding the rollback of the odometer,the director's reaction was one of genuine horror and i am 100% satisfied they had no prior knowledge of this in any way. They have agreed to rewind the deal and give me back the purchase price of the car i paid to them 12 months ago. In all honesty it's what i hoped for but daren't even dream off, I sit here now one very relieved skoda customer. Now what to buy next Octy or Superb? And yes i'm very happy to buy my replacement car from the same dealership, so convinced am i in their position of innocence regarding prior knowledge of either the finance issue or the clocking.

Ray

As a footnote Ben at Shark Performance has been fantastic in helping me with proving the mileage issue beyond doubt, I want to publicly thank Ben for all his help, i'm convinced the outcome may have been less favourable without his input. Cheers Ben

Excellent result

There are genuinly some really decent dealers around & its good to see you have found one of them.