Added Rick_B's twinpass installation

It's been mooted that a discussion topic might be needed regarding intercooler upgrades.

I decided to start one.

Firstly, a question: What are you planning for your car? A mild makeover? Making the most of the standard equipment? Or swapping out the turbo for a hybrid or other big turbo solution.

Many OEM intercoolers feature plastic end tanks or a pressed style of construction using gaskets and metal lips/tabs to hold it all together. These will not be the best solution if you are planning to use massive boost (2 bar and over). Consider that the fabia runs 1.3bar from the factory and the SEAT Cupra TDi only 1.6 or 1.65.

Intercoolers that fit with minor trimming of plastic surrounds etc...

Forge

http://www.forgemoto...roduct=FMINTFAB

Jabbasport/Proalloy

http://www.jabbaspor...ow&ref=JSFMIC12

http://www.jabbaspor...dxl/pid2171.jpg

SEAT Ibiza eBay by JBIMotorsport/TXAutosport...

http://www.txautospo...r-kit-335-p.asp

Three intercoolers listed on their site. Counting the rows, this is the one in the kit...

http://www.txautospo...ooler-101-p.asp

Intercoolers that fit requiring metalwork alterations.

Allard (included in this section due to alterations needed to the slam panel...

I'VE NOT CHECKED THIS SITE OUT BUT IT'S THE ONLY ONE I CAN FIND HOSTING A PICCIE OF THE I/C.

http://allard.myfish...130-pd-tdi.html

SEAT Sport style intercoolers (SEAT, FORGE, THS).

Original Seat Sport intercooler.

Many threads around here and SEATCupra.net. Essentially the Forge one below looks like it.

Forge SEAT Sport Style intercooler.

Forge version is stronger as it's fully welded. Failures have been reported using the origial SEAT item with hybrids turbos and high boost.

FORGE

http://www.forgemoto...duct=FMINTSSIBD

http://briskoda.net/...eat-sport-plus/

Require mods to the Fabia crash bar which is rather bigger than the SEAT one. Plus minor plastic/shoud trimming.

Usually used with Forge pipework kit for fitting the Seat Sport intercooler.

http://www.forgemoto...product=FMSKINT

THS Performance SEAT Sport style intercooler.

http://www.thsperfor..._MK4_THSINT-IBZ

Spotted by trebormint here: http://www.briskoda....ost__p__2696693

Other intercoolers.

JBIMotorsport universal "kit". Main advantage(?) would be it's 90mm thick.

Intercooler itself looks pretty good. However, it'd be nice to see it offered as a standa-alone i/c rather than as a kit.

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item589199cff9

This seems to be the intercooler from their Lean Cupra kit.

http://www.txautospo...r-kit-342-p.asp

J.

Edited 20 May, 201214 yr by vindaloo

Intercoolers that fit requiring metalwork alterations.

Allard (included in this section due to alterations needed to the slam panel...

I'VE NOT CHECKED THIS SITE OUT BUT IT'S THE ONLY ONE I CAN FIND HOSTING A PICCIE OF THE I/C.

http://allard.myfisheye.co.uk/skoda-fabia-100-130-pd-tdi.html

J.

Not thought of this option, though its a bit strange with the pipe work going through the air inlet at the front.

I think its a case of either this Allard one or the Forge Fabia kit which I've been offered at a good price.

Also thought I'd mention Jabbasport do the Pro Alloy Front Mounted IC. Reading about it it attaches straight to the existing pipework, so they may need upgrading too.

Also thought I'd mention Jabbasport do the Pro Alloy Front Mounted IC. Reading about it it attaches straight to the existing pipework, so they may need upgrading too.

And quite expensive @ £829!

I like this. Just the f'ing pipe work tho thats the main problem

http://www.txautosport.co.uk/small-alloy-front-mount-universal-turbo-intercooler-101-p.asp

Edited 5 January, 201214 yr by leehowling

And quite expensive @ £829!

But worth it if you are going for big power and spending £££ on the car anyway.

The best option I've found so far, would be the forge hose and pipe kit:

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=190104&product=FMSKINT

Using forge cooler number 7, or eBay equivalent (straight out one end, 90 degree out the other)

http://forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINT104UNI

Then a stainless pipe which stretches the length of the back of the cooler, and a 90 degree pipe to fit it to the end of the cooler.

Costs:

£250 for Forge hose and pipe kit

£177 for Forge cooler (half that for eBay job).

£50 on additional hose and pipe.

EDIT: or you could find a a twin pass one like this and not have to worry about the extra piping:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TwinPass-Intercooler-FMIC-Medium-65mm-inlets-180mm-high-Highly-Polished-/220923478368?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item337010c160#ht_1136wt_1378

surely this is the best bet?

Twin pass

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TwinPass-Intercooler-FMIC-Medium-65mm-inlets-180mm-high-Highly-Polished-/220923478368?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item337010c160#ht_1145wt_1270

Edited 5 January, 201214 yr by leehowling

But worth it if you are going for big power and spending £££ on the car anyway.

But a lot of people with big power run the Seat Sport Intercooler or a Forge Kit??? Some of the Golfs and Leons even run with the standard i/c! just upgrading the piping!!

Is the Pro Alloy really worth the extra £250??? And this keeps the standard boost pipes too...

The best option I've found so far, would be the forge hose and pipe kit:

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=190104&product=FMSKINT

Using forge cooler number 7, or eBay equivalent (straight out one end, 90 degree out the other)

http://forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINT104UNI

Then a stainless pipe which stretches the length of the back of the cooler, and a 90 degree pipe to fit it to the end of the cooler.

Costs:

£250 for Forge hose and pipe kit

£177 for Forge cooler (half that for eBay job).

£50 on additional hose and pipe.

Maybe could get a combination of 5 and 8. Bit like the Allard kit. This is certainly a good option, using one of the Forge's universal intercoolers. Should be able to get a good price on it too.

surely this is the best bet?

Twin pass

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TwinPass-Intercooler-FMIC-Medium-65mm-inlets-180mm-high-Highly-Polished-/220923478368?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item337010c160#ht_1145wt_1270

I was looking into this intercooler

There should be enough room to fit this underneath the crash bar without too much problems and with being a twin pass (exit on the same side) the routing of the piping should require little or no modification as well as being fairly neat

Anyone done a similar setup?

I've been looking at various OEM and OEM+ intercoolers for VAG cars and erm... SAABs. The current Audi A3/S3 intercooler is pretty big, as is the SAAB 2.2 TiD intercooler. Main issue I have is I don't know if they'll physically fit between the bumper bar mounts on a Fabia. There's also the Audi TTRS intercooler.

Another left field idea would be to try to retain the SMIC and add a FMIC. Run the turbo->intercooler pipework similarly to the eBay kit, then go back via the OEM SMIC. My main issue with this is I don't know if there's space to run the pipes past each other in the vicinity of the OEM SMIC. This method would negate the need for a MAP sensor mount.

J.

Here is something to add to the discussion...

Unless your running a differnet turbo (i.e. over 200 BHP) then why even bother?

Its a lot of money/hassle for pretty much nothing in the majority of scenarios. Indeeed the extra room for air can have negative effects such as more lag.

There are also advantages of warmer air in terms of BSFC (fuel consumption) Honda did a lot of research with Turbo F1 engines and found warmer air did have its advantages.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on it..... But I really wouldn't get caught up in thinking anybodys car actually needs an uprated one. Highly modified stuff running big boost aside. More boost equals more pressure on the air meaning the air gets hotter of course.

Here is something to add to the discussion...

Unless your running a differnet turbo (i.e. over 200 BHP) then why even bother?

Its a lot of money/hassle for pretty much nothing in the majority of scenarios. Indeeed the extra room for air can have negative effects such as more lag.

There are also advantages of warmer air in terms of BSFC (fuel consumption) Honda did a lot of research with Turbo F1 engines and found warmer air did have its advantages.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on it..... But I really wouldn't get caught up in thinking anybodys car actually needs an uprated one. Highly modified stuff running big boost aside. More boost equals more pressure on the air meaning the air gets hotter of course.

My own feelings are that a car will benefit even with no other mods. Discussions here and on SCN and TDICLUB indicate that the OEM SMIC isn't up to the job if the car is driven "with spirit" or brisk(y)ly .

From my own POV, having the maximum amount of choice is important, as is having an understanding of the issues of fitting any of the FMICs.

I take your point about overall efficiency and warmer air. Particularly as my best fuel consumption figures occur on 25 degree summer days, probably driving at 65 on the M25. If your argument could be quantified in terms of gained/lost MPG...

Overall though, I feel the argument should come down on the performance side of things rather than economy.

J.

Warm-ish day and a thrash and the intake temps soon went up, especially with a map so anyone doing a few track days and the like would see the benefits from a FMIC. However, i`d tend to agree with right said Fred, if your not planning to go for big power or doing a track day every weekend, it`s probably not worth doing for performance gains. If its a daily that gets the odd excitable drive i`d spank the money elsewhere if it were me.

Here is something to add to the discussion...

Unless your running a differnet turbo (i.e. over 200 BHP) then why even bother?

Its a lot of money/hassle for pretty much nothing in the majority of scenarios. Indeeed the extra room for air can have negative effects such as more lag.

There are also advantages of warmer air in terms of BSFC (fuel consumption) Honda did a lot of research with Turbo F1 engines and found warmer air did have its advantages.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on it..... But I really wouldn't get caught up in thinking anybodys car actually needs an uprated one. Highly modified stuff running big boost aside. More boost equals more pressure on the air meaning the air gets hotter of course.

Temps rise quickly even on a standard car. Missus' Ibiza PD130 (standard) will easily see 70+ degrees going up hill for example. And it doesn't have to be a hot day...

Forge got a 7bhp increase on a standard PD130 using just an FMIC.

Also if you improve the efficiency of the engine that can lead to improved MPG.

Though saying all that, best value for money performance upgrade is a remap.

Think im out of the group buy now, The thread has been locked we dont know whats happening... Im going to spend my 200 on some Weitec Sport F Lowering Spring

It wont be closed for long mate just some minor issues with my initial post which should be done soon.

ok, delete my post

Here is something to add to the discussion...

Unless your running a differnet turbo (i.e. over 200 BHP) then why even bother?

Its a lot of money/hassle for pretty much nothing in the majority of scenarios. Indeeed the extra room for air can have negative effects such as more lag.

There are also advantages of warmer air in terms of BSFC (fuel consumption) Honda did a lot of research with Turbo F1 engines and found warmer air did have its advantages.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on it..... But I really wouldn't get caught up in thinking anybodys car actually needs an uprated one. Highly modified stuff running big boost aside. More boost equals more pressure on the air meaning the air gets hotter of course.

PD150 Golf and Leon have a FMIC, PD160 Ibiza has a FMIC. if there was no benefit/reason then the tight-arsed manufacturer simply wouldn't bother

Even on a cold day your looking at one full wot in third burst for intake temps to reach 70+c.

I'm yet to confirm but I think theirs a map which reduces fuel as IAT rises.

Hi guys, I know this has absolutely no relevance to a fabia in any way but I thought I'd share this with you anyway just to prove what you can do with a little bit of lateral thought and using some real cheapo parts from eBay.. mods feel free to delete this post

Like you guys what I really wanted was a dual pass intercooler core but I couldn't find one cheap enough so I bought a £54 universal fit intercooler from eBay which has 57mm (2 1/4") outlets, I rummaged around in my scrap metal pile and found some bits of 1.5mm steel plate, I chopped this up and quickly knocked up a mounting bracket to weld to the front of the car

Couldn't figure out q what of getting the pipe from the engine to the front of the car because there is nowhere on a felicia to get the pipes in because it was never designed to have a turbocharger engine, so I basically got a bit lairy with a hole saw and drilled a 57mm hole right through the front chassis crossmember and welded in a short section of 57mm exhaust tubing which I got for £4 from my local motor factors,this allowed my to feed the pipe straight along the bottom of the chassis rail

From here I used a 90 degree bend, to a straight piece of ally tubing, into a 180 degree bend, through the intercooler, then in through the old original airbox intake hole into the throttle body on the engine, in all the ally pipe sections/elbows etc came to just over £100, then I had a mate tig weld them all together nice and neat which cost my a crate of kronenburg,

had to chopva few bits here and there out of the front bumper to allow the pipes to fit through but it still looks totally original once the fog light blanking grilles are pushed into place... Anywho what I was trying to say is it can be done cheaply if you try.. Good luck everybody, I'm always willing to offer advice on intercooling etc

and here's my £1 solution for beading the ends of the intercooler pipework, ground the end off a cheap machine mart pair of mole grips and welded a 57mm exhaust clamp saddle to one side, and an M12 washer to the other side.. And it works really well too even on steel pipe..

all the best guys.

Forge are trying to sell an expensive bit of kit, of course they will say it gives a 7 BHP increase.

I'm not saying its false, just its no surprise they will say it does that.

The 150s have a FMIC, so yeah that does go some way to say its needed on a mapped car.

Just like the 160 intake though, its usually more for other markets than here in the cold UK.

Interesting that your seeing 70 deg on a 3rd gear run - how long did it take to come back down?

my forge fmic with custom sfs top pipe will be for sale shortly two weeks or so

my forge fmic with custom sfs top pipe will be for sale shortly two weeks or so

I'll be definitely interested in that. Why would you be selling?