Popped in to see my mot tester today to make sure my headlights were properly aligned. Mentioned that they were xenons and that my mot was due soon and he said he knew (obviously as he slightly adjusted one lol) but he never said that they would fail, even with my led sidelights.

So all is looking good.

They wont fail as long as they are aligned properly. Auto levelling and washers are only tested 'if fitted'.

Yeah i know. Ive been following the 'arguements' for months. Just trying to maybe reasure a few people. Obviously some testers might be a pain in the @r5e, i dont have the washer covers either so theres nothing that can be tested.

Some cars are still made new with xenons and no washers or auto levellers. Hyundai i40 being one of them. I saw it unregistered in the showroom yesterday.

Some cars are still made new with xenons and no washers or auto levellers. Hyundai i40 being one of them. I saw it unregistered in the showroom yesterday.

I was under the impression that if the Vehicle is factory fitted with Xenons by law they have to have high power head light washers!! are you sure the Hyundai wasn't fitted with projection lights when switched off they can look slimier from a glance.

I was under the impression that if the Vehicle is factory fitted with Xenons by law they have to have high power head light washers!! are you sure the Hyundai wasn't fitted with projection lights when switched off they can look slimier from a glance.

Ah that must be it, I didn't ask or anything I was picking the wife's fiat up and saw it parked next to the service desk. I thought it was odd.

I would check the published VOSA manuals here:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/technicalpenpicture3-lighting.pdf

This extract is quite clear.

"This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems. Some high specification estate cars are fitted with a self-levelling suspension system and this would be considered as adequate for the purpose."

Your tester is wrong and will no doubt have his collar felt at some point.

Carl.

But then MOT Inspection Manual (also a link to the DfT's own website) is just as clear:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge

(HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may (not "must") be fitted

with headlamp washers and a suspension or

headlamp self levelling system.

Where such systems are fitted, they must work;

however, it is accepted that it may not be possible

to readily determine the functioning of self levelling

systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt

must be given.

So by "clear", I obviously mean "not very clear at all". Do you need them, do you not? If it were my car and I had HIDs which passed all the other areas such as beam patterns, then I would be pointing out that since the Inspection Manual says "may" be fitted, it's not a requirement to have them.

But then MOT Inspection Manual (also a link to the DfT's own website) is just as clear:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge

(HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may (not "must") be fitted

with headlamp washers and a suspension or

headlamp self levelling system.

Where such systems are fitted, they must work;

however, it is accepted that it may not be possible

to readily determine the functioning of self levelling

systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt

must be given.

So by "clear", I obviously mean "not very clear at all". Do you need them, do you not? If it were my car and I had HIDs which passed all the other areas such as beam patterns, then I would be pointing out that since the Inspection Manual says "may" be fitted, it's not a requirement to have them.

It's pretty clear if you read the document that the lighting section is a change to the current manual to be implemented from the 1/1/2012.

MOT Changes to Inspection Manual

- Section 1 (Lighting and Signalling)

This Technical Pen Picture gives an overview of the MOT test

changes in respect of lighting and signalling checks brought

about by an amendment to Annex II to Directive 2009/40/EC

and introduced by Commission Directive 2010/48/EU.

These changes will take effect from 1 January 2012.

What they have done to confused the f%$& out of everyone one is publish the documents into the 'commercial' section of the documents on the website, so most will see them there and ignore them assuming they apply to commercials only, however the wording of the amendment and the wording of the EC directive on which it is based use the term 'Motor Vehicles' or 'Vehicles' so the new rules are for all vehicles as they don't tie them to a class of vehicle anywhere.

Carl.

It's pretty clear if you read the document that the lighting section is a change to the current manual to be implemented from the 1/1/2012.

Yes, indeed. My link IS the current manual, issue date 01/01/2012. And it still says "may be fitted", not "must be fitted".

Dept of Transport at war with itself IMO.

Those setting the MOT test have dealings with the public and trade organisations and can be said to operate in the real world. I view the new MOT rules as a workable compromise.

OTOH, from various documents published over the past 5 years or so, there's a rather more draconian element within the Dept Transport IMO. Those that would see anything potentially irritating or disturbing banned. The "if it moves stop it, if it isn't ban it" brigade.

J.

The AA's interpretation is here:

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html

Have mailed VOSA specifically quoting the two sections to get a definitive answer but I think the HID guys may be removing them soon, me, it's made up my mind to get set of Philips Extreme bulbs (nightbreakers don't last long) as I can't go for HID's now.

Carl.

The AA's interpretation is here:

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html

Have mailed VOSA specifically quoting the two sections to get a definitive answer but I think the HID guys may be removing them soon, me, it's made up my mind to get set of Philips Extreme bulbs (nightbreakers don't last long) as I can't go for HID's now.

Carl.

You don't need washers and levellers as its been proved that older cars didn't have them even with xenons and HiDs

You don't need washers and levellers as its been proved that older cars didn't have them even with xenons and HiDs

Where was it proven?

Carl.

Really hope the leveller doesn't have to be working as mine isnt (factory fitted xenons) I'll just get them aligned a day before the test. If it fails then I'll get it fixed.

J

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On 1 January 2012, new rules were added to the current MOT by the Department for Transport (DfT) to comply with European testing procedures.

Headlight requirements are updated to take account of the particular characteristics of High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps.

HID headlights can cause dazzle if they are dirty or aimed too high so car manufacturers must fit headlamp cleaning and levelling systems. A car will fail if a mandatory headlamp cleaning or levelling system is missing, doesn't work or is obviously defective.

Vehicles fitted with aftermarket HID systems must also be fitted with properly working washer and levelling systems.

Then why aren't those rules in the MOT Inspection Manual, which describes the procedure for testing passenger vehicles? As far as I'm concerned, if they're not in the procedure testing manual, they're not rules.

Then why aren't those rules in the MOT Inspection Manual, which describes the procedure for testing passenger vehicles? As far as I'm concerned, if they're not in the procedure testing manual, they're not rules.

Maybe they will be in the new, re-printed, manual.

And this is why I give up with forums sometimes. The link I pasted IS the manual. It's the NEW manual. It's dated 1/1/2012 and is the current edition as approved by VOSA and released by VOSA. If you went and ordered a copy of the MOT Inspection Manual by ISBN number, you would get a printed version of the PDF I've already linked to.

So, I say again, why aren't your new "rules" in the Inspection Manual? The answer is because they aren't new rules, they were new proposed rules which are outdated and didn't make it into the manual in their original form. There's still LOADS of outdated information on the web if you search for "2012 MOT", but the horses mouth (VOSA) says that such devices "may be fitted" and "where fitted, must work". Not "must be fitted".

And this is why I give up with forums sometimes. The link I pasted IS the manual. It's the NEW manual. It's dated 1/1/2012 and is the current edition as approved by VOSA and released by VOSA. If you went and ordered a copy of the MOT Inspection Manual by ISBN number, you would get a printed version of the PDF I've already linked to.

So, I say again, why aren't your new "rules" in the Inspection Manual? The answer is because they aren't new rules, they were new proposed rules which are outdated and didn't make it into the manual in their original form. There's still LOADS of outdated information on the web if you search for "2012 MOT", but the horses mouth (VOSA) says that such devices "may be fitted" and "where fitted, must work". Not "must be fitted".

My mistake. I wasn't aware the quote was from the new manual and the link doesn't work.

"The page cannot be found

The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. "

Oh, fair enough, it still works here. Apologies for the slightly sarcy post, it just seems to have been one of those weeks...

so far I've read that a 90bhp VAG TDI is "just a detuned 130" (the different injection system, different turbo, smaller intake pipework etc don't count), that the PD130 has a better head than the PD150 (they're identical), that Quantum oil is rubbish and too expensive at £15 for 5 litres, Gulf is much cheaper because it's £15 for 4 litres. All sorts of total blather on the web this week, some MOT related and some not

Where was it proven?

Carl.

How about the 2001 Nissan primera spot (old shape) I owned that had factory xenons with no washers etc. google them if you like and you'll see a picture.

Oh, fair enough, it still works here. Apologies for the slightly sarcy post, it just seems to have been one of those weeks...

so far I've read that a 90bhp VAG TDI is "just a detuned 130" (the different injection system, different turbo, smaller intake pipework etc don't count), that the PD130 has a better head than the PD150 (they're identical), that Quantum oil is rubbish and too expensive at £15 for 5 litres, Gulf is much cheaper because it's £15 for 4 litres. All sorts of total blather on the web this week, some MOT related and some not

Lol, I know what you mean, everyone is a armchair expert.

How about the 2001 Nissan primera spot (old shape) I owned that had factory xenons with no washers etc. google them if you like and you'll see a picture.

Wondered if you'd quote that one, the 2001 P11 Primera Sport+ and SE+ were equipped with Xenon from the factory and had headlight washing systems as standard, so if it wasn't a Sport+ or SE+ it was an aftermarket conversion and if it was it had been in a smash and the headlight wash had been removed.

Specs are available here:

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/nissan/primera/hatchback-1999/equipment/

I'd also bet that as they were around at the same time as my 2000 Accord-R which have both washing and levelling systems for it's factory fitted Xenons that the Primera's (Sport+ and SE+) would have had them too.

Carl.

The manual was changed around November and changed from 'must' have headlight levelling and washer system to the '.....or LED dipped beam headlamps may (not "must") be fitted

with headlamp washers and a suspension or

headlamp self levelling system.

Where such systems are fitted, they must work;'

ie factory produced cars can come without the extra kit, ie Ariel Atom, KTM X-bow, Caterham and other such sports cars. This is why the amendment was made else it would have made all these OEM cars techcially an MOT failure which wouldn't have gone down too well.

I read about it on another forum but can't for the life of me remember which one!