Turbo died... how? is it possible to avoid failure?

[luke_a]

I have a 2005 Octavia 1.9 TDI Estate, and have owned it for the past 3 years. I bought it when it was 3 years old with 120,000 miles on it, did a full service and cambelt replacement as soon as I bought it (as it was well overdue). It is now just over 6 years old, has 165,000 miles on the clock, and everything has been fine, up until now.

Last Wednesday when I was driving to work, I pulled out of a junction and as I was accelerating up a hill there was a bang. Immediately I lost a considerable amount of power and smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. It scared the **** out of me, I just didn't have a clue what to do, so decided to panic. I pulled over, and the back of the car was splattered with oil and the exhaust stank of burning oil. As I was very close to a garage (about a minute), I stupidly decided to drive it there, instead of waiting 2 hours for a breakdown truck.

Once I got it to the garage, they guessed straight away that a turbo failure was probably the cause, and quoted me for fitting a new one, £1300. They then put it up on a ramp and had a look around, and warned me that as all of the oil had gone through the cat and the exhaust, that they may need replacing also. A new cat would bring the total up to £1700, and a new exhaust on top of that would bring it up to around £2100.

Anyway. I decided to go ahead with the work, as the car was worth spending the money on. So they started taking it bits to figure out how much of the car the Turbo had destroyed. My knowledge on the subject is hazy at best, but it turns out that on the (exhaust?) side of the turbo that connects to the cat, an (oil?) seal had failed and bits of the impeller/turbine/spinny thingy had smashed and shot itself into the cat destroying whatever the hell is in that. The other side of the turbo was intact, so I have hopefully avoided damaging the (intercooler or the?) rest of the engine. Fortunately, I didn't need a new exhaust, as they were able to clean the oil out of it. So they cleaned everything up and replaced the Turbo and the Cat for £1700.

The work they have done is covered by a 12 month warranty on parts and labour, and looking around the internet at other tales of Skodas with failed Turbos, the quote seems fair enough for new parts. I'm not here to discuss the cost, I'm just putting the figures up here for reference if anyone else stumbles across this post.

What I am concerned about is the future, and if this is just the start to all sorts of other expensive problems down the line. I know no one can say for sure, as from what I can gather Turbos appear to just fail without warning or provocation. Anyone here had a turbo fail, got it replaced, and lived happily ever after? It would be reassuring to hear from you.

On a more technical note... how the hell did it happen? Did I cause it? I had the car serviced every time it told me it needed doing. Does the turbo have a replacement interval I was not aware of, or do they just go bang seemingly at random?

Edited 30 January, 2012 by luke_a

[Mike B]

Turbo's dont live forever! 165k is really good going!

Keep on top of the servicing/oil changes and you'll be OK!

[Jim1556]

Hmmm, this thread troubles me! I've just taken delivery of a brand new Octavia VRS TDI (redundancy cash), my brother's Audi had blown up so to tide him over for a bit I gave him my old 2001 1.9 TDI Elegance Estate, it'd done about 137k, with a cambelt at 100k and a clutch last year. I've serviced it once every 8-12 months or so since late 2007 and apart from a MAF sensor, it'd never let me down (battery, clutch, cambelt, brakes n tyres I consider wear n tear).

I'm sure it's a different engine, but saying the turbos go around 150k+ means my brother might be in for a bad day...

Did you get a reason for the failure?

[skippy41]

So far after 190k taxi miles mine is still intact 55 plate 1.9 tdi the only major thing that has gone wrong at 188k was the cam shaft and lifters, £600 for a new one with shells lifters and 2 gaskets fitted

[wiilydog]

probably due to oil starvation to the turbo causing the shaft to over heat and break.

proper warm up and cool downing the turbo and regular oil changes are key to turbo life.

giving the car it the beans when the engine is cold can also put strain on the turbo shaft as the oil has not had time to properly circulate and this turns the shaft blue in colour due to the heat and repeatitive abuse will eventually cause the shaft to break.

[jrw]

I feel that you need to vary the strain on the turbo once it is warm.....ie getting it spooled up to keep it clean and run it on decent (non supermarket) fuel.

BTW, you could have just taken the Cat out - it isn't needed for an MOT, nor are the emissions tested on a diesel.

[marcusthehat]

Oh dear oh dear.

Wor Galaxy, 1.9TDI VW engine with trick turbo, ie 110BHP spec, new from 1998 , run on Case No1 tractor oil,every 5 thou then swopped to semi synthetic every 10 thou.

I always religiously kept the oil level topped up.

And servicing done by myself, a non-mechanic.

Had engine oil temp up to 120 degrees C in Spain towing on the motorway.

And the car generally was worked like a dog.

Currently at 241,000 + miles pulling like a train on the origional turbo.

But never "fleeced" when cold, & always "simmered" when hot parking.

I appreciate that manufacturing tolerances and mean time before failure etc all play a part in individual assemblies.

But so does maintenance, mechanical sympathy & driving style.

Oh!

PS Always but always the cheapest Supermarket or "smuggled" diesel, and never but never any "snake oil" additives.

PPPPS

I fordot her also be remapped? at about 60,000 miles or leastwise tweeked to about 124 BHP plus extra extra torque, or so Vincent convinced me at the time.

Edited 1 February, 2012 by dieseldogg

[TRIPLE S]

My previous Octavia SLX TDI reg new in Sept 1998 now owned by my son is still going strong at almost 211,000 miles. It has had a service every 10,000 miles and still manages over 60mpg and he uses the cheapest fuel plus Millers [it was Superchipped back in 1999]. The only bits to be replaced apart from tyres, wipers, service items etc have been all 4 electric window systems [drivers door twice], disc brakes and pads at 140,000 miles and a new battery in December 2010. Everything else is as it left the factory!

[skodacarman]

Judging from mixed reports in this and other forums, turbo life does seem to be a matter of pot luck, but there are precautions you can take. Your turbo might not last any longer, but a few simple precautions might help. I've made a short list of my own personal thoughts on these below.

DISCLAIMER: These precautions are easy enough to try; and even if they don't work, I don't think they can do any harm. But I'm not an expert by any means, and you try these at your own risk! I offer absolutely no guarantee that they will prolong your turbo's life.

Bear in mind that turbos consist of two impellors (fans) in two separate chambers, one plumbed into the inlet side of the engine and one to the exhaust side. Both impellors are rigidly connected to either end of a short shaft running in a plain bearing machined in the casting between and separating the two chambers. The shaft's bearing is supplied with engine oil under pressure. The oil provides both lubrication AND cooling. The stresses on the connecting shaft are key to the turbo's useful life.

Lubrication of the turbo's connecting shaft is critical because it spins at insane speeds. Cooling is critical because the exhaust side gets red hot from the exhaust gases and yet more heat comes from the compression of gases on the inlet side.

Because lubrication by microscopically thin pressurised oil films and really searing heat don't go very well together, the connecting shaft has a tough job to do in difficult conditions. Not only does it have to resist terrific opposite twisting forces from each end, but too little lubrication/too much heat and the shaft siezes and breaks, or chews up its bearing and shakes the turbo to bits, often spewing its oil copiously out the back.

The general idea is to ease the turbo's life by getting its shaft good and oiled before and after it has spun up and keeping it so after spinning up by:

- using oil of good quality and changing it as often as your wallet or conscience can bear(i.e. premium brand & reasonably fresh), and keeping the oil well topped up (don't let the oil pressure drop), and

- allowing the oil a few seconds to circulate after start-up before moving off, but

- not leaving it standing idling for minutes after start-up when cold: move off and get the motor up to working temperature, but

- don't thrash it before the engine has warmed up generally and the oil is circulating and lubricating at its best, and

- allowing the oil to circulate after coming to a stop in order to cool the turbo shaft and leave it well oiled for the next start-up: you could do this with a few seconds of engine idling before switching off.

There's an ongoing argument about whether or not extended/variable service intervals are good for turbos. Turbos not only make great demands on their oil, they also dish up considerable punishment back to the oil by heat and shearing.

There's also a suggestion that water-cooled turbos are less prone to failure.

I guess some fleet manager will know.