I don't suppose you have considered a Kia Cee'd? I know it's a bit bigger but a few driving schools around here use them.

Main criteria is fuel consumption. Cee'd is not competitive in this respect, although the latest version looks good.

Chris

Main criteria is fuel consumption. Cee'd is not competitive in this respect, although the latest version looks good.

Chris

you know I'm an instructor Chris, and have had many cars over the years when I did it full time, but I cant really help, because my philosophy seems to be different, I have the least econimocal fabia skoda do!

but then I only do 20-25k a year now :yes: I remember the days of stellar miles (147k in 3 years in a saxo VTR!) , but I'm a part timer now.

let us know how it goes then give us a review.

how reliable has the mini been in that time? considering my last high miler was a fiat grande punto, and that did 110,000 miles with NO breakdowns, and NO replacement parts that wern't wear and tear (i.e brakes tyres ect) OE clutch / gearbox ect "as new" .. be interested to see how the mini went

I've been thinking a bit more about this.

If the fiat 500 is too small, how about the grande punto?

Or the brava?

Roomy enough, good visibility, easy to drive.

Fuel figures look favourable for the small diesel.

you know I'm an instructor Chris, and have had many cars over the years when I did it full time, but I cant really help, because my philosophy seems to be different, I have the least econimocal fabia skoda do!

but then I only do 20-25k a year now :yes: I remember the days of stellar miles (147k in 3 years in a saxo VTR!) , but I'm a part timer now.

let us know how it goes then give us a review.

how reliable has the mini been in that time? considering my last high miler was a fiat grande punto, and that did 110,000 miles with NO breakdowns, and NO replacement parts that wern't wear and tear (i.e brakes tyres ect) OE clutch / gearbox ect "as new" .. be interested to see how the mini went

I am probably dropping most of my consulting work this year so the driving instruction becomes my main income. Hoping not to jinx it, but the Mini has been excellent. Fuel economy is about 20% better than the old Fabia VRS, Reliability has been good. Still on original clutch at 147000 miles, Only warranty work of note was the need to replace the pre turbo inlet tract at 120000 miles. Repeated servicing had sheared the clips and lugs off the airbox, so the full tract had to be replaced, all done under warranty. There is a very slight occasional squeak from the blower motor, may be bearing needs oiling or may be something got in there and is rubbing. Will have a look Monday morning. Interior has held up brilliantly, half leather seats and fabrics all still like new, trim wiped over and the interior looks new. Exterior paint and plastics equally good. Should realise 4 - 5K for it on the px deal or private sale, so it has been good value.

I've been thinking a bit more about this.

If the fiat 500 is too small, how about the grande punto?

Or the brava?

Roomy enough, good visibility, easy to drive.

Fuel figures look favourable for the small diesel.

I looked into the Punto, fuel economy good, but not the best in class and the dealer here could not even be bothered to show me a car last time I went in, so does not bode well if there is a problem, which statistically, is very likely.

Chris

I think I'd lean towards the Kia Chris...

I am probably dropping most of my consulting work this year so the driving instruction becomes my main income. Hoping not to jinx it, but the Mini has been excellent. Fuel economy is about 20% better than the old Fabia VRS, Reliability has been good. Still on original clutch at 147000 miles, Only warranty work of note was the need to replace the pre turbo inlet tract at 120000 miles. Repeated servicing had sheared the clips and lugs off the airbox, so the full tract had to be replaced, all done under warranty. There is a very slight occasional squeak from the blower motor, may be bearing needs oiling or may be something got in there and is rubbing. Will have a look Monday morning. Interior has held up brilliantly, half leather seats and fabrics all still like new, trim wiped over and the interior looks new. Exterior paint and plastics equally good. Should realise 4 - 5K for it on the px deal or private sale, so it has been good value.

I looked into the Punto, fuel economy good, but not the best in class and the dealer here could not even be bothered to show me a car last time I went in, so does not bode well if there is a problem, which statistically, is very likely.

Chris

good effort on the reliability and trade in there

fiat dealers are not the best, I was lucky, I had a fantastic , tiny, family owned dealer that was brilliant, best dealer of any manufacturer I have come accross (keswick fiat) so try and shop around for another dealer! they are fantastic value for money cars, the engine technology is second to none (they invented common rail, but have learned and copyrighted the multiair engine!) the equipment is good, and the blue & me one of the best integrated media systems I've ever used...

and dont let poeple tell you they are not good for reliably. (they used to be poor on electrics, few people know the electrics are now done by bosch!) mine was way better than the mark I vRS (in every way!) the mark II well I've only done 24k so far, so time will tell

keep us updated!

Chris, going by what has been discussed, even if you cannot get the Kia right down to the same price as the Ibiza, doesnt the better warranty available offset a few quid ?

Given the potential rocky road that SEAT might be in, around VW demanding better profitability, otherwise theyre out on their own, my perference business wise would be ............... Rio.

If you do get one, bring it to a meet & let us know what you find in the real world.

Not really been following the VAG internal politics, did not know Seat where struggling. The whole group is discounting quite heavily at the moment but maybe their costs are higher. With the state of the Spanish economy, their credit may be about to get expensive too. Final decision will not be purely on cost, I have things I really like about both cars:

The Kia scores well on fit and finish, NVH ride quality, light easy to modulate controls and a very sweet 6 speed gearbox.

The Seat has better steering, slightly better seats and I can have cruise control (lazy I know, but I do miss it) and I liked the looks from the day it was launched.

Price will affect the decision, but value is the key.

Chris

Must say i do quite like the Rio, and the nice warrenty.

But just noticed that Skoda are doing extended warrenty options of 4 and 5 years, wonder if you can do that with Seat?

Must say i do quite like the Rio, and the nice warrenty.

But just noticed that Skoda are doing extended warrenty options of 4 and 5 years, wonder if you can do that with Seat?

Thanks for reminding me of this. Quite a few manufacturers are offering similar but generally they are mileage limited. I will ask though.

Chris

I learnt in a Toyota Yaris Diesel, which was ok for learning. Good outward visibility and you could see the foot pedals in your peripheral vision.

Helped with learning where the controls are. Would a Citroen C3 be any good?

I learnt in a Toyota Yaris Diesel, which was ok for learning. Good outward visibility and you could see the foot pedals in your peripheral vision.

Helped with learning where the controls are. Would a Citroen C3 be any good?

The Yaris cannot manage the fuel economy and the C3 is ******* awful in anyone's language. Pupils looking at their feet or the gear lever when the car is moving are summarily executed.

A bit of an update. Today I got to have a proper drive in the Kia Rio. On my first drive of one, NVH was particularly impressive as I had just climbed out of something really noisy. On second drive, I reckon it to be closer to the Ibiza than I initially though. Still think it has the better cabin quality, though slightly quirky air con system. I also got to drive the car in a mixed driving scenario, taking in quite a lot of town centre crawl, stop and start, a little dual carriageway and a small amount of rural 40/50/60 roads. It clocked an impressive 63mpg (according to the trip comp anyway). Doing the same circuit in the Mini only yielded 48mpg, so this bodes well.

It did blot its copy book a little though. The car seemed very sensitive to crosswinds today, intrusively so. In the Mini, you would not even notice these.

Seat is getting stronger in the battle as the deal on offer has come down significantly making it a very attractive proposition in SE Copa trim.

One way or the other, deposit goes down tomorrow.

Chris

Having had a close look at a Rio today, it just seems to miss that little bit of specialness to me.

And talking to the sales guy he said they have had a lot of interest from a local driving school.

So it seems that it might be the Driving Instructors choice locally.

Would you be happy with a " plain " car or one that looks a little Sporty?

Having had a close look at a Rio today, it just seems to miss that little bit of specialness to me.

And talking to the sales guy he said they have had a lot of interest from a local driving school.

So it seems that it might be the Driving Instructors choice locally.

Would you be happy with a " plain " car or one that looks a little Sporty?

Honestly, I like both for different reasons. Looks wise, I like the Rio and the "2" option is nice inside. Fit and finish, perceived quality, ergonomics, it all just seems very good. The Seat is not particularly great in this respect. Again, on the outside, I like the way both look. The Seat is a shape more likely to date, but still looks good at the moment. The Rio looks fresher but just a little less sharp, like a Fiesta turned down a notch or two. The Rio has a stronger road presence if that makes sense. Something to do with the wide narrow grill and relatively low stance.

The Rio is definitely a winner from an instructors point of view. Mind you, so is the Ibiza. The price I have been offered on the Ibiza is almost embarrassing. The Kia dealer has given me a very keen price on the Rio too, but it is in the realms of sensible discount.

Chris

So Chris, which way did the deposit go?

Was only thinking the same Wardy.

So Chris, which way did the deposit go?

Soo....

Came down to the wire yesterday. I was in the Seat dealers, specification agreed and prepared to pay the deposit. The car spec I wanted was not available from national stock, but we where able to find something close enough. Shook on the deal and it was only when I was going through the order confirmation that I noticed that the price of the car seemed to have magically turned into the "price to change". How had this happened? Well originally quoted £11970 for the S Copa 1.2tdi Ecomotive with dual controls fitted. Price discussed for my car but not specified at the time. The dealer later made it known that Seat where clearing out stock pre facelift, I subsequently asked the dealer via email for best price on clearance cars and got the offer at £10091 £10831 for the S and SE Copa respectively. Bargain thinks I, but of course this is a "price to change" including £700 of typical dealer **** smoke and mirror add ons (I fukin hate it when they do that). This being cheaper than the basic price I had been offered before and in view of the salesman making much of the clearance deal, it never crossed my mind that the price would be price to change. With the value of my car, this made the Seat just way too expensive. Given the spec I wanted was not available, nor the colour, and the fact that they had ADDED nearly £700 to the original price in this shady move, I just gave up.

This morning I went into the Kia showroom (incidentally, no wonder Seat are not diong so well and Kia are, over the weekend the Kia showroom was heaving with people, the Seat one pretty quiet). Here in Kia land, no add ons included in the quote, no shady smoke and mirror pricing, no offering gap insurance (which does not apply if car is used for instruction) just a straight, rather good, given it is a new model, price. Deposit paid, job done. I am sort of glad that Seat messed me about as I reckon the Kia is the better (if slightly more expensive) car for my purposes.

Kia Rio 2 1.1CRDi Ecodynamics is now ordered in Blaze Red metallic paint, with dual controls and head up speed display fitted, for the princley sum of £12363, a substantial discount through the Kia driving school scheme that also includes a fuel card deal (not sure if it is worth anything yet). So what we get is a sweet 1.1L 3 cylinder diesel working through a nice 6 speed gearbox, stop / start functionality and a well appointed and screwed together cabin. Had a little play with the audio system while the dealer was rustling up the paperwork (wanted to check that it would be happy reading a 32GB memory stick full of music and it is). Someone at Kia has paid attention to the sound quality, it being very neutral without sounding flat.

I could have had it earlier, but test commitments mean I shall be collecting it on 26th of March if it all goes to plan.

Chris

Kia,

It's cheaper to buy, it's going to get abused and be worth nothing at the end.

Both the kia and seat will be worth jack all once you're done with it, so why not save yourself the money up front.

My Wife drive's a 57' kia cee'd 1.6 CRDi 115bhp - owned from new - always acheives 50+ MPG unless you treat it really well, then you can expect 65+

This is the 1st model, before the Eco and only has a 5 speed box. - But it has loads of get up and go too.

... it's worth-less now, at 4 years old, it's worth around 4 grand... 3 years warranty remains, so we'll be keeping it until it dies!

Al.

I have my 57 plate Cee'd 1.6 SR petrol and I paid just under 5k for it in August. It's everything I need in a car, and although I have changed the stereo I am reluctant to change the speakers as they are fab! It's like having a subwoofer!! By far one of the best audio setups I've ever heard, even with the standard headunit!

I'm glad you went for the Rio, as they really are amazing cars. Kia is on its way up and I can't wait for their new models. The new Cee'd just looks yum!!

New Cee'd.

Back end looks like a new Astra tho....

And altho it'll be the same car underneath, the new i30 looks better

Good luck with the new Rio - I would love to hear how the baby engine does - ie, is fuel consumption in the real world, really as good as they claim, or do you have to rev the but off it to make it go, and therefore would eat diesel....

Al.

Sounds good Chris, like the idea of a head up display. Be interesting to see how it works.

Kia,

It's cheaper to buy, it's going to get abused and be worth nothing at the end.

Both the kia and seat will be worth jack all once you're done with it, so why not save yourself the money up front.

Actually the Seat is cheaper to buy, but not quite as nice to be in. I am in there up to 12 hours a day, so money is not the primary decider. The car does not get abused (some instructors let this happen, but not me). Mini is still worth a few bob, getting a fair price on the PX for it, may sell it privately as the condition is really very good.

Good luck with the new Rio - I would love to hear how the baby engine does - ie, is fuel consumption in the real world, really as good as they claim, or do you have to rev the but off it to make it go, and therefore would eat diesel....

Al.

The quick test drive I had with the trip computer on showed good MPG, around a quarter better than the Mini, which averages 54 - 55mpg across a year. Sure it is slow (the slowest car I ever owned) but it is a car for a job and seems to be optimal for it. Looking at saving about £1000 per year in diesel over the already very efficient Mini.

Sounds good Chris, like the idea of a head up display. Be interesting to see how it works.

Head up display is an add on from the dual control people. It has a neon digital speedo that faces upwards and you read the speed off the reflection in the windscreen.

Looking forward to getting it now

Head up display is an add on from the dual control people. It has a neon digital speedo that faces upwards and you read the speed off the reflection in the windscreen.

Sounds interesting, i have been looking at these, http://hud-e.com/shop/page/1?shop_param=

Sounds interesting, i have been looking at these, http://hud-e.com/sho...ge/1?shop_param=

The one I am getting is the one from HeMan dual controls:

http://www.he-mandualcontrols.co.uk/gps.html

Handy because I can adjust it to mirror the speed showing on the speedometer.

Chris