If I were to be looking for a 16v or an SDI, what else should I look into apart from the below?

Also, is the 16v more economical than the MPI despite needing the 98 RON fuel?

Head gasket issues

Mayo deposits around oil cap

Oil mixing with coolant

Regular services

Cambelt (if present)

Washers

Aircon

Run a quick handheld VAGCOM diagnostic

Door cards/wet carpets .Seatbelts retracting smoothly. On any

PD, service history ,to see that oil has been changed REGULARLY. Vehicles with drum brakes ,check that handbrake is not sticking, when taking away . If cambelt has been changed ,has waterpump also been done ,and anti freeze changed. Aircon works.

Your post suggests you're looking for economy so this might be easier if I explain why I chose my mpi over a diesel.

First question, do you need/want a diesel? How many and what type of miles will you be doing? Are you looking for lower costs or more power/fun? Understanding what you want/need is the most important part of all of this, too many people buy a diesel because of the mpg with no consideration of the true costs.

PD/SDI: While the mpg is higher the fuel cost is higher and the gap is getting bigger. Work out the cost per mile, factor in the cost of timing belt/water pump changes, add a clutch/dmf change every 100-150k and the ia turbo at about the same, increased tyre/brake costs (heavier front end) and the fact it must have the correct (more expensive) oil every 10k along with the higher initial purchase price and you'll probably find unless you're doing over 2k a month a diesel doesn't make as much financial sense as comparing mpg would have you believe. The SDI makes more sense (no turbo and higher mpg) but the other expenses remain. Engine mounts are also known to need doing along with the usual bushes. That said a PD is probably more fun than a small petrol as the torque helps a lot, a remap will see a PD100 to 135-145 bhp depending on who you choose but remember to tell your insurance company.

Petrol: The 1.4 16v needs to be run on premium fuel for long term reliability and despite making this clear the first thing the majority of users do is chuck 95RON in, buying used you are taking a punt as you don't know what the previous owner(s) have run it on, you also have the same timing belt to do but no DMF and it's a lower VED than the mpi, delivers better urban mpg and is a VW engine (that's not necessarily a good thing). Bushes will need doing at some point. If you don't do a lot of miles and don't mind paying for premium petrol and can find one that's just had it's belt/pump changes then this could be an OK option otherwise stick with what you have.

I know you own one so forgive the obvious but the 1.4mpi is an old Skoda engine, it's rough at idle, cast in iron and as it dates back to the 60's it's simple to work on (if you're doing stuff DIY). It's got a cam chain so no belt (120k chain interval). It's urban mpg figure isn't as good as the 16v but considering it'll do it on 95RON it's not worth worrying about, on a run it's apparently good for 50mpg (better than the 16v). I'm doing 70+ miles a day at the moment and getting 42mpg+ out of ours with mixed driving (less than 14.6p a mile based on fuel only). You tend to find the mpi in classic trim as it was the budget option, this is basic to say the least but has far less to go wrong. The reason it's a decent buy is it's reasonably economical, gentle on tyres/brakes, cheap to service with 10k intervals (oil/filters/plugs are under £35, disks and pads from ECP are £41) and cheap to insure, it's got a higher VED though.

So if it's about cost you'll save bugger all switching to a 16v from an mpi based on fuel prices for premium and even running it on 95 won't save with issues likely long term. The difference between a PD/SDI and the mpi when you factor in the tyre/brake/dmf/clutch costs and turbo on th PD is probably not that compelling from a cost perspective, from a fun perspective it's a different story with a PD but from a financial perspective the SDI makes more sense out of the two. Whatever you choose you pay one way or another, the mpi costs more per mile but you'd have to do a lot of fault free miles in an SDI to cover the bill for just one clutch/dmf failure and a timing belt/water pump and as the price gap between petrol and diesel continues to widen the savings get smaller. To give you an idea my old car averaged 53mpg on 95 RON and cost 11.2p per mile, mpg wise that's about PD territory but on fuel that's 8p a ltr cheaper so should illustrate how minimal your savings are likely to be.

Mayo round the oil cap wouldn't worry me in isolation, if it's been stood a while (look at the discs) or the cars only used for shorter runs they don't get hot enough for long enough to burn off the condensation that forms. Steering angle sensor should be obvious from VCDS but check when you're underneath checking the driveshaft seals/gaiters/bushes that its the metal version.

Thanks VWD & particularly Avalon for your detailed advice. I hope you don't mind me bouncing some ideas off you?

I am definitely looking for whatever will be cheaper in the long run....and I've done something rather embarrassing with my current MPI...ironically just when I sent off my application to join the local RoADAR. It's been a very bad month with other things and this just topped it off. So for the forseeable future it'll be more about economy and less fun till premiums come down.

I covered 10k miles in 6 months and a couple of months ago fabdarav suggested I look into a diesel, hence the contemplation. Mileagewise, during term time its about 50 miles city and 100 motorway miles a week and probably about 500 motorway miles a week during holidays. So roughly 17000 miles a year. What would you recommend with these figures?

I ruled out the PD engine because of the added turbo hassle and higher insurance group. As for the 16v, not being able to guarantee which fuel previous owners have used is a deterrant, but what are the long term issues with using 95RON in that engine?

So its a toss up between SDI or MPI....or whichever one comes up first locally on ebay.

Please to note the SDI has a single mass flywheel.

Ive just realised there's only £300 difference in insuring an MPI to a TDI for me after the incident......so the fun factor might be possible....after an IAM and RoADAR course, of course.

There's also this post -http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/213819-the-extremely-useful-fabia-1-topic/

Sorry moving house so not on much atm.

Please to note the SDI has a single mass flywheel.

I stand corrected, that being the case if you can get an SDI you stand the best chance of making savings with that.

The way I look at it (and I know i'm strange ) was whatever I buy is going to be run till it becomes uneconomical to repair so depreciation isn't a factor for me as my resale value will be the scrap value. I do circa 24k a year and am happy enough to do the normal DIY mechanical stuff. My mpi Classic was £1500 (Y) with 21k on the clock. I could have had a PD100 Comfort for £2350 with 85k (53) on the clock and I had the cash for either and I like the PD100 lump as i've driven a mapped PD in the Octavia/Golf and currently have the 2.0 in the Leon so you'd think i'd be all over the 1.9 but I wasn't.

A PD would have saved me circa 2-3p a mile heck push the boat out and call it 4p (my figures were based on the Golf and the Octavia which are both heavier so i'll assume the PD100 does better in Furby form). It'd have needed a timing belt and a water pump within the next 12 months but ignoring that for the moment the extra £850 up front would take me 21,250 miles before I had recovered the additional purchase price. By the time i'm at 106,250 miles (within 12 months as i'll hit 2k a month easy) and i'm due the belt/pump so i'm into it for another £300 at dealer rates (and can expect the same every two years with my driving), that's another 7,500 miles to cover to recoup that cost and now i'm now circa 113,750 and I can start saving a single penny. I'll also have stumped up for higher insurance, now assuming nothing else goes wrong i've got some time to save some money before the next timing belt is due! For comparison the mpi would be on 49,750, for an engine that does reasonably high miles on nothing but oil and plugs should still be reliable. The PD would be at the sort of mileage where it's not unreasonable for a clutch/DMF and/or turbo to be required, some go a lot further but some also go a lot sooner. On an SDI you don't have a turbo or (as i'm now aware) a DMF so, if you can find an SDI that would give the best chance of saving money but no matter what you buy you are going to pay about the same if you keep it long enough, the mpi you pay every time you fill up due to it's less economical design but cheaper fuel price, the diesels every time the belt needs doing and/or a turbo/clutch/dmf needs doing and with that price gap widening on petrol it's getting less attractive.

Here's another curve ball, as pointed out by someone else SDI's will also apparently run Bio-Diesel. Now glossing over the poor standard of some of the producers and limited availability if you want cheap motoring that's probably your best bet even running a 50:50 mix would give a decent saving.

Too many people just look at the mpg figure and ignore that they do way too few miles to make any kind of economic saving or one that's wiped out by the first 'big' bill. I've seen so many people make frankly stupid choices based on an mpg figure paying anything up to a few grand more for a diesel but then only doing 8-10k a year, it's just not worth it.

I bow down to your expert knowledge and mathematical prowess!

In terms of fun, the 1.9 TDI trumps the SDI, but the other way round for economics. I'm eyeing up a TDI with 85k miles which has been regularly serviced and had a cambelt over the last year, but no water pump. Seller doesn't recall any turbo or clutch replacements....that's circa £1k to replace, right?

This is becoming a minefield. Am I right in thinking the TDI has more potential to be modded once I have a few years NCB? The vRS is too dear for me now, but I can just about afford a TDI....but if it'll never perform like a vRS, I might as well settle with another MPI now and save up.

You're basically dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

A PD100 will remap to stock vRS performance levels but is cheaper to buy/insure when standard than a vRS. If you're going to modify it to the extent that it's going to almost be a vRS then you're probably better off just buying one. Even at dealer rates £300 for a timing belt/pump every 4 years/60k (which is about the same for you at 17k/year) is only £75 a year average so it comes down to the clutch/dmf and the turbo. The clutch could be good for the same sort of mileage again depending on how it's been driven as could the turbo, you just don't know. If the clutch goes a lot of places still replace both the DMF and flywheel even though it isn't always required and depending on who does the work and the parts bill it can get quite expensive. With the turbo you have more options, a used part from a breakers, a re-manufactured unit on exchange or brand new.

Personally if you can find one that's had the timing belt done recently and it's in decent condition with a wedge of paperwork to back up the mileage and the service history i'd take a punt on it.

Catch 22 situation...thanks for offering your thoughts, Avalon.

Early VRS's on ebay either have high reserves or starting prices. Probably won't find anything sub£3k any time soon. For some very strange reason though, VRS insurance is coming at about £100 less than the 1.9TDI 100 I've been looking at! Makes no sense...been comparing like for like on comparison sites etc.

The only mod I was contemplating was the Shark remap, which a lot of people have commented on here. Anything more would need more expensive handling and suspension parts...so as you said, not feasible with insurance.

Only thing holding me back from the Comfort trim 1.9TDI im eyeing up is the lack of AC. The climate control buttons below the dials are split into 2 and I can see the recirculation arrow on the left but can't make out what it says on the right. I assumed at first that the right button must be AC, but seller confirmed it only has heater and blower. It's down to how roasty I plan to get in the summer commutes. Aftermarket install at >£1k isn't worth considering, lol!

But I'm desperate to get back on the road....so i'll probably end up taking the plunge than waiting it out for something else to show up.

This is becoming a minefield. Am I right in thinking the TDI has more potential to be modded once I have a few years NCB? The vRS is too dear for me now, but I can just about afford a TDI....but if it'll never perform like a vRS, I might as well settle with another MPI now and save up.

The 70 1.4,can I believe be taken to 100 ,but first thing I'd do is modify the front brakes. They're adequate for the 70 ,but only just IMHO.And with a lighter engine, handling is not too bad .

Edited 21 March, 201214 yr by VWD

^^

The 1.4 TDI, right? Surely not the 1.4 MPI!

Take a punt, even if the clutch/dmf go and you replace them you'll not have to do them for a lot of years so will make your money back in savings. A/C is only essential if you are stuck in stop start traffic on a hot day and how many days a year is that likely to happen? Other than that you open a window.

I was tempted by a local SDI Lupo the other day (78mpg and will run BD) but it's come up at the worst possible time financially and i'm just about to do the wishbones/drop links/bushes on the mpi (having just done the angle sensor and two new tyres along with a full service) so i'd like to get some of the benefit from it.

I had the 1.4TDI in a brand new Polo for a day, we didn't get on, 100bhp would go some way towards redressing that balance.

Yay, got myself a 51-reg 1.9TDI in pretty good condition with some dealer service paperwork. Disappointed at the cambelt situation though...seller said it was done at 65k...now 85k so not due...alas that was done in '06. There are receipts for regular oil, brake fluid, brake pad and coolant changes.

Going to phone around for the best price for a cambelt + water pump change....annual service is due in May, so I might as well get them to do that in this visit. I can do the oil, filters etc myself....so just ask them to do the rest, right?

Not a lot in the annual service other than oil/filters if the BFC was done in the last two years and coolant in the last four but when they do the pump it'll get a coolant change anyway, remember to phone the dealers for a price as well, not sure about Skoda but VW/Seat used to price match within a certain distance and ran regular offers on cam belts. It didn't always make them the cheapest but sometimes the difference can be small enough that it's worth it for the peace of mind or the added come back you have against a franchise dealer.

TYVM. It was either 399 at dealers or 300 at Unit 18 (both inc VAT)...given everything I hear about them, I thought that would be a no-brainer....road trip + check out what all the rave is about.

TYVM. It was either 399 at dealers or 300 at Unit 18 (both inc VAT)...given everything I hear about them, I thought that would be a no-brainer....road trip + check out what all the rave is about.

Good move.

Factor in another £12 for an auxiliary belt as well.

Oh, that should be changed too? Cool...I'll ask them. Thank you

I'm starting to have a bit of buyers remorse and not sure if there were time-wasting bayers-on-the-e raising the price. Was £1800 too much to pay?

Registered in Jan '02, 85k miles, receipts for regular services, last owner had it for 7 years, interior is minty fresh, had new battery, brake pads and discs over the last 2 years, MOT till Nov. Just two scratches on the passenger doors (I'll rotary them out when I've got more time). No stalling or hesitation and the turbo sounds fantastic. I was desperate to get back on the road, to be honest.

Having to spend on cambelt, possible steering angle sensor and possible air con resistor.

Oh, that should be changed too? Cool...I'll ask them. Thank you

Not necessarily but mine was on the way out and Unit 18 changed it.

Take your walking boots and go down the canal if it's a nice day.

^^

Awesome Was wondering where I should go to kill time...

I'd not worry on the price, by the time you factor in the cam belt and pump you're about right. The aux belt is normally done based on condition (it tends to crack) before it hits the interval. Have a look, if it's in good condition with no evidence of cracking then don't worry about it, if it's like a river bed in a drought then get it done. The last one I did was £8 for my non a/c mpi.

Thanks so much, Avalon and Peter. I owe you drinks when our paths cross!