Yeti towbars

[dcl5ad]

Cornishman, what does yours look like when it's not fitted?

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[Cornishman53]

Cornishman, what does yours look like when it's not fitted?

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Hello

 

if you forward you email I will send you photos. they are too big fo this site to take.

[email protected]

[Truthseeker]

" I can go to SUK and /or VW finance as the vehicle is not as specified"

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I had a major issue on a previous VW, and after getting nowhere with the dealer, I went to VW/Skoda  finance, and they sorted it right away with a full refund.

 

Make sure you get a new rear bumper (lower panel) as well.

 

Good luck. 

[Cornishman53]

Have a look here at post 154 shows how the cut out and flap should look.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/144075-yeti-forum-members-picture-thread/page-6

[briwy]

We ordered a detatchable bar from new on the Yeti through the dealer but it was actually fitted by these people in Chesterfield.

http://www.towitall.co.uk/

 

Apparently they do most of the towbar fitting for VAG group vehicle dealers in the area and use the Westfalia bars which are the ones VAG use.

 

13 pin electrics, fully coded, no problems. I think it cost around £500 but that was through the dealer so possible a bit less direct with them.

 

They have aslo recently fitted a Westfalia bar for us on VW California camper van for around £450.

[dcl5ad]

Ok, Ive calmed down a bit and had a good poke around the car. I've also spoken to the various parties involved now that our insanely busy weekend is over. What I've found is quite interesting & might be useful for other people considering an after-market towbar.

 

Firstly, the bar fitted is the correct Witter SK24Q which works as a direct alternative to the OEM Westfalia unit. It is slightly better in some respects than the Westfalia in that you have the option of fitting the connection assembly at two heights - the Westfalia being technically too high according to some reports. If you fit it at the correct (for the published standard) height, then you can not use the removable cover.

 

Secondly, the electrics are facilitated by rightconnections.co.uk with one of their full CANbus devices. This talks directly to the vehicle ECU and provides the correct inputs to disable the vehicle's rear fog light, PDC and enable the trailer pictorgam on the bolero. There is no MFD alert during normal operation. I believe this is correct for the late build on our Yeti (there's certainly nothing in the manual about this appearing). TSC enablement and bulb failure all appear to be covered as expected. Their installation instructions are comprehensive and include the VCDS bit data to make everything work correctly. 

 

As we didn't get towbar prep there can be no alarm integration as this requires a separate module on the vehicle. I've had this confirmed by rightconnections and Westfalia. Witter don't have a support number. I've not bothered asking MSB.

 

Thirdly, according to rightconnections, VAG group forbid the fitting of bypass relay devices of any sort to all of their vehicles with multiplexed / canbus wiring. Doing so may invalidate the vehicle warranty. Pretty much as expected. My dealer was oblivious to this fact.

 

My dealer was also completely oblivious to the fact that a detachable bar is meant to have the bumper cut-out done by him and the cover (along with mounting frame) supplied to the towbar fitter. I had to send the witter instructions, a link to the NW towing centre youtube video and a pile of pictures to get this point across. Apparently they've done dozens like this and never known.

 

The monkeys are coming back on Wednesday to move the bar up to the top position, and fix the cut-out issue. We'll see how they get on. Thanks so much to Cornishman for your installation photos. They were a real help to me this morning.

Edited 11 November, 2013 by dcl5ad

[Truthseeker]

.........and fix the cut-out issue.

 

Looking at your photo of the incorrect cut out, you will need a new lower bumper panel, so that the correct one can be done.

[Llanigraham]

Looking at the instructions for the Witter bar it isn't a direct replacement as the cut out for the moulding is in a different place. I'm not sure it will fit with the removeable hatch.

 

Where do you get the idea that the Westphalia is too high? I've checked mine before and it is within the EU Directive specification of between 350mm and 420mm.

 

And I am very curious about those wiring instructions, even without "tow bar prep"

 

And lastly your dealer sounds like a right cowboy!! Every dealer has a full and complete computerised parts and instructions system that tells that what is needed and what needs to be ordered for a tow bar. They really need a very strong complaint to SUK making about them.

[dcl5ad]

The witter kit allows you to fit it either with their cut-out, or in the higher position, with the skoda cut-out.

 

I'm sure i read a post on here last night that someone had measured their their westfalia tow ball as being about 470mm off the deck. Now, of course i can't find the post and suspect i may have imagined it all.

 

The only thing that troubles me about he wiring kit is why is it spliced into the brake light feed? As previously mentioned it needs you to press the brake pedal on disconnection to switch it between connected / not connected mode. Otherwise it appears to be a proper vehicle specific kit.

 

Yes, the dealer is clearly a sheister of the first order. I was so irate last night I was of a mind to go and place the tow ball in a suitable receptacle where the sun doesn't shine. A carefully worded letter to suk is on the cards. 

[Llanigraham]

The only thing that troubles me about he wiring kit is why is it spliced into the brake light feed? As previously mentioned it needs you to press the brake pedal on disconnection to switch it between connected / not connected mode. Otherwise it appears to be a proper vehicle specific kit.

 

 

That troubles me greatly and I can see absolutely no reason for step12 in their instructions. The brake light circuit is in the plug Skoda already mount in the cars wiring. Even more worrying when they use a scotchblock to fit it!!!!!

That electrical kit does NOT conform to Skoda approval and is different to the one another member here fitted and was then bought by one of our Australian members.

 

No matter what kit is fitted it should still allow the full reprogramming of the car. Personally I would be getting the dealer to order the proper Skoda wiring kit and making them fit it. Yes it might be a lot of work removing all the trim, but it is the correct and proper way to preserve your warranty. What they have done has potentially removed that protection.

 

I would also be talking to Skoda Technical about the botch job they have done.

 

I hope you have written a review of the dealer in the relevant section here.

[dcl5ad]

You mean via the red connector above the n/s wheel arch? I thought this only existed on tow-preped vehicles? I keep swaying between 'it'll do' and 'get the bar stewards'.

[dcl5ad]

Ok, it's 3am and baby is awake. So while he gets a feed I go find the westfalia electrical fitting instructions...

KABOOM!

Graham, yer right. That's it. The whole lot is coming off.

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[Llanigraham]

Glad that you have found the correct answer!!

 

Don't forget to put all this in writing to the dealer, not just an email or verbally, with a copy to SUK's MD. They really have extracted the urine. Are they on a good back-hander from the towbar company? Considering that they have had to run a cable through the car they have had to do as much work as the fitting the proper Skoda wiring kit.

 

Screw the barstewards!!

[Fairyvan]

Phew!   Reading this awful debacle makes me even more thankful I followed Graham's strong advice to have a factory fit tow bar!

So sorry for you having all this trouble, it must have taken the shine off a bit.  Your dealer wants taking to the cleaners! Hope you get it sorted and compensation.

[kilted]

Wow interesting to see a Dealer making such a royal screw up with this.

 

I am interested in getting a tow bar fitted to mine for a tow ball mounted bike rack (bit more expensive than other options but i think the best one overall)  so i'm following threads like this with interest.

 

Definitely will keep my eyes open when I eventually take i in to get done.

[dcl5ad]

So I phoned Skoda UK this morning and eventually spoke to someone vaguely technical. Their take on this is.....

 

"...the vehicle manufacturer's warranty would be invalidated if any issue could be traced to this installation."

...and you can see why. This is the connection into the data bus:

 

 

Yes, that's right, they've untwisted a twisted pair, peeled back the insulation and soldered into it. Exactly what you shouldn't do. (fyi, CANbus is a signal based on a low voltage carrier wave, the twist is in there to prevent hall-effect induced signals from other components, outside sources, radio waves etc, it's not just there to single out the cables as I just had to explain to the monkey on the phone. It's a bit like splicing into your T.V. aerial cable, yes it'll work but the picture will be junk)

 

Have had a very long and promising conversation with the branch manager. And another conversation with the monkey. Oook Oook. Having educated them both about basic physics and skods' dim view of their work, it looks like things may be progressing.

 

The silence at the end of the phone when I advised the only way to make the vehicle warranted again was to replace the main body loom was interesting.

[Llanigraham]

Oh boy, I love that last paragraph!!!!!      

 

That is going to cost them LOTS!!!!

 

Well done, but I still suggest you write to them, just in case.

[lippy427]

Hi dcl5ad,

 

Sorry to hear about your towbar debacle, but can I ask where you had the the tow bar fitted and who actually did the fitting ?

Since I'm looking to have a towbar fitted and you're not a million miles from me I would hate to end up using the same 'monkey'!.

 

Thanks

Geoff

[Great Yeti]

 

Well done, but I still suggest you write to them, just in case.

 

Graham is right! Put it in writing (recorded delivery!) and make sure you confirm all the points you raised with them on the phone with them and SUK. Copy it all to the head of SUK. I am sure he / they will not be happy!!! Keep contemporaneous notes of all conversations and correspondence. Having lots of detailed notes often frightens the bejesus out of people when you start quoting dates / time and conversations etc back at them.

 

I wonder if it's not to late to reject the car. The dealer arranged the fitting etc to a new vehicle which they appear to have rendered less than merchantable quality. I had a problem with a Ford 25+ years ago. Dealer and Ford wanted to repair the car. 3 day old vehicle and they wanted to start welding it and blowing paintwork in. They would not move from this position and so I spoke to the motoring organisation to which I belonged. Three and a half hours after my phone call, two reps from the Halewood Factory were on my doorstep...........All resolved - a new car - next model up -  with lots of extras and a big apology with 3 months free fuel.

 

So if you are a member of some organisation, it may be worth trying them for help [lots of members / bad publicity]. Alternatively, consult with trading standards or your own solicitor - you may be covered for this under your car insurance or your household policy.

 

I sincerely hope you get this sorted out to your satisfaction. Good luck!..................Tony

Edited 12 November, 2013 by Great Yeti

[dcl5ad]

I have a complaint case open with Skoda UK. They are less than happy with the situation. Tonight's task is dropping my brain-dump of events from notepad into something formal. I have a meeting with the dealer tomorrow. Could be that I conf-call skod in as well at the time. I'll be recording the meeting as that usually gets people on their toes.

[Llanigraham]

Ah, the joys of modern technology, but be careful about recording anything; you must warn them you are doing so. I do like the idea of the conference call though.

 

Rejection is possibly a last resort, but is certainly something that has to be considered. It could work to your benefit.

You have of course calculated the compensation you require for all the worry they have caused, plus the time and costs incurred?

 

Can you PM me which dealer it is, please? (for info only)

[Truthseeker]

Graham is correct - you must advise them that you are recording the conversation, otherwise null and void if it goes to court.

 

Also agree about confirming in writing. However, me being me, I always sent any urgent mail by special "guaranteed next day delivery" - costs around £5 but worth it. The trouble with recorded delivery is that although it is signed for, it does not guarantee it will get there as it is treated exactly the same as ordinary post.

 

Finally, I would think you have a good case to reject the car. I had a similar experience 30 years ago with a new Ford XR2 Mk1. Had some paintwork faults on delivery. I let them respray the offending door but it turned out a right mess so I rejected the car, informed Ford UK and ended up with another new car but this time it was the Mk2 - I was well pleased that I stuck to my Guns.

 

Not sure how long you have had your Yeti, but if you go down the same route as me, you may well end up with a FL (with factory fit tow bar).

[Llanigraham]

Re posting official letter, and with my old job's hat on:

 

If you send a letter by normal post then a Court can legally make the presumption that it has been delivered, so all you need is "proof of posting".

If you send a letter "signed for" or "recorded delivery" then the recipient can refuse to accept it, therefore it cannot be proved to have been received.

 

We (Government Dept) used to send all our summonses by normal post!!

[Truthseeker]

Did not know that, but I still send anything important to DVLA for example, by special delivery

[dcl5ad]

Had a very productive meeting with the garage and towbar fitter today.

 

They have agreed to:

• Have the car in to remove the witter and right connections stuff.
• Do the bumper cut-out correctly (almost certainly to include a new bumper lower component, if not an entirely new bumper.)
• Fit a full Westfalia tow bar and electrical kit. this is now on order from w/f.
• Liaise with Skoda UK to determine what work will be necessary to bring the vehicle back under full manufacturer's warranty. They have had confirmation from SUK that it is likely to be in breech as it is.
• Carry out such work as required.
• Provide suitable compensation. I suggested this would be from the parts & accessories catalogue as there's things we need.

I also have a case manager looking at this from SUK's side of things. They are due to report back to me either tomorrow or on Friday.

 

The dealer and sub were understandably humble. I could very easily have gone in there guns blazing and torn them to shreds on a customer service and technical level. IME that just gets your blood pressure up, builds resentment and ultimately gets you nowhere. i have been on the receiving end in my professional life & it's not good. This usually occurs where a salesman has promised something that is simply technically impossible or worse, extremely bad practice. The best measure of any organisation is how they deal with an almighty male chicken-up such as this. Its up to SUK to deliver the inevitable dressing down.

 

Next task is to summarise today's meeting and put the actions down in a formal letter.