Yeti towbars

[Llanigraham]

Sounds like it was a very productive meeting Andy, with the result you wanted (needed).

 

Quite agree about the "method of attack". I've often found the quiet and polite approach works far better than the shoutie one, and with the correct words can often be far more "threatening".

[dcl5ad]

Quite by coincidence, this morning I was acting as invigilator / examiner to a senior technical guy from Audi's head office in Inglostadt. All through the meeting he was texting me, in German, asking how he'd done in his exam.

[kilted]

Sounds like it was a very productive meeting Andy, with the result you wanted (needed).

 

Quite agree about the "method of attack". I've often found the quiet and polite approach works far better than the shoutie one, and with the correct words can often be far more "threatening".

I was taught years ago that if you have to raise your voice in a meeting, you have already lost the argument. Keep rational , go in with a plan and discuss things with a steady tone of voice and you generally get more out of it as you haven't got your oppositions backs up to the extent you would have shouting.

 

I would definitely summarise things with SUK though - not only for evidence should things not go according to plan (which is the main reason) but also to show that the dealer has accepted the (major) problems and is attempting to rectify things in an acceptable manner (this will potentially get you brownie points with the dealer later on).

[dcl5ad]

SUK have beaten me to it & phoned with their understanding of things. Thankfully it is identical to my recollection. I'm still writing to all parties to confirm my understanding.

 

While I wait for the parts to turn up, I think it might be useful to summarize what I've learned about the tow bars from the various posts on here and conversations with SUK:

 

The only electrical installation that SUK will sanction and therefor warrant, is the Westfalia unit. This plugs directly into the yeti loom in three places: an earth point above the rear n/s wheel arch, the brake light feed (via a dedicated connector), again above the rear wheel arch and the main fuse box, via a plethora of connections directly into the board. In theory a Skoda dealer can order the electrical kit should you want it separate from the bar. This could then allow you to fit a Witter detachable flange, jaws coupling or some other third party device. Westfalia will only sell the electrics along with a bar.

The connections are there irrespective of whether you've had tow bar prep or not, the difference being that with tow bar prep you connect everything via a big red connector above the n/s rear wheel. Westfalia have dedicated looms for both scenarios. They also have a 7-pin option, but in this day and age you'd be mad to go with that & their adapters are very good indeed if necessary.

With tow bar prep you also get bigger cooling fans, integration with the vehicle alarm system and the hatch cut-out. It is not possible to (easily) retrofit the fans. Nor is it possible to retro-enable the alarm integration as that is done via another dedicated box.

If you need the hatch cutting, your fitter will have to buy or rent (from Skoda) the stencil to do the cut. The Westfalia instructions advise getting the dealer to do this work.

Whichever scenario you fit into, you'll need the vehicle re-coded. The Westfalia bar destructions are available here if you want a quick peruse. Their electrical instructions are here.

 

Now this is the important bit and where the dealer thoroughly screwed up. Splicing directly into the vehicle loom is forbidden. Any SPLICING into the CANbus loom is very dodgy indeed. CONNECTING into it via an approved method, such as through the fuse box is another matter. Should a warranty claim arise and, following investigation SUK determine that the spliced connection is the root cause of the issue, then your vehicle's MANUFACTURER's electrical warranty is null and void. (My fuse went about here). Your dealer or tow bar fitter's warranty theoretically then takes over. Given the propensity in the modern economic climate for businesses of all shapes and sizes to vanish off the face of the earth, this poses a bit of an issue and the main reason I went apoplectic. Furthermore, I can just imagine what a German vehicle technician will say if you pull into a garage in Stuttgart with a fault and they trace it back to a botched tow bar install. Your dealer warranty will be worth about €0.00 in that instance.

 

For some stupid reason I knew this was going to be a total PITA back in early October. I can't believe how accurate my foresight was. Off now to buy a lottery ticket for 6 week's time.

[kilted]

The important thing for you is that SUK are aware of this and I am quite sure that they will see to it that the dealer fulfils his obligations ie to give you a serviceable car with the correct parts fitted and the faults rectified or ,at the dealers own cost, replace the car with one suitably fitted.

 

Still definitely worth keeping the paperwork right though as should anything go awry and legal action is required, you can fall back on the letters which lay out the agreed faults and actions. Doing this on the basis of meetings with only verbal communications could cause problems down the line as, to use the age old phrase " A verbal contract isn't even worth the paper its written on"

 

Definitely still interested in the Westfalia towbar though but I now know the issues to look out for.

[dcl5ad]

So our Yeti is back at the dealer today, finally having the Westfalia kit fitted properly. I've given up trying to second-guess what it'll end up like. The dealer is also supplying some roof bars to make up for the debacle above.

 

In the mean time I've been given a 1.2mpi Rapid, which is a good outside bet for misnamed vehicle of the year. 75bhp and 1150kg is not a good mix in modern traffic. It also suffers from "we-must-make-this-as-torsionally-rigid-as-possible-itis" which seems to plague many modern vehicles. Don't get me wrong I love driving good handling cars quickly and I'm sure this'll be great with 200bhp and a 60mm drop on the Nordschleife. It would corner like it was on rails and quite probably put in a 7'30" BTG time. I fully appreciate that a racing car has to have a rigid platform to bolt the suspension to. This however, is not a racing car. It feels like the dampers have been tuned to arrest any movement what so ever just before the bump has fully finished being driven over. That, coupled with the adamantium-hewn chassis, results in a ride which can only be described politely as "jiggly". I'd blame the tyres, only they look like they've been nicked from a late 80's Vauxhall Cavalier, presumably to compensate for the unyielding suspension.

[freedie]

Don't beat about the bush like that Andy. Tell us what you thought of the Rapid!

[dcl5ad]

Sometimes manufacturers simply get things wrong. It might be fine with a bigger (heavier) engine. The car's not all bad: the boot's HUGE and the interior space is great. Just in this combination it makes me wonder  what were they thinking?.

 

Dealer 'phoned: all done apparently. Time to put the inspection lamp on to charge before collection in the morning.

Edited 20 January, 2014 by dcl5ad

[thingy]

dcl5ad, you have the patience of a Saint.

Going through your posts IS/HAS to be a help to us all that are intending to have a tow-bar fitted.

For me, it's a big thank you for sharing your unfortunate hassle on here.

I'm due to get my Yeti in a couple of weeks, it's a showroom model and the dealer is trying to put me off having a tow-bar fitted through them. I can now see why.

May I wish you well and a perfect finish to this hassle.

[dcl5ad]

Collected my unlucky snow monster again this morning. It now has all the Westfalia kit, complete with a correctly cut out hatch and it all works, they've re-done the loom where the rightconnections cr@p was spliced in so I now have a full electrical warranty again.  only.... the garage have somehow managed to wreck the headlight switch during the fitting process.   Discovered this while heading up the A1 into a fog bank, went to move the switch from Auto to Headlights so I could put the fogs on and it instead tuned all the lights off.    So back we go again tomorrow. I would strongly advise staying well clear of McMullen Road in Darlington: bad things happen there.

 

As an aside, I read somewhere that skoda uk outsource their customer care services to someone like capita. is this correct?

[hebrew]

Dcl5ad,

I'm going through exactly the same thing as you've had, at the moment.

I picked my pre reg yeti adventure up on Saturday and I was graced with exactly the same as you. Witter tow bar hanging below the bumper, obviously no cover as it wouldn't go on anyway, a 7 pin socket which was supposed to be a 13 pin etc etc.

I've tried the electrics tonight and all there is is a beep at the rear when the indicators are turned on, nothing at all on the dash. So I assume they must have spliced into the loom at the rear somewhere.

Could you see where they had spliced into on yours ?

I'm awaiting a call from the dealer in the morning, there was no one available yesterday to speak to.

[Llanigraham]

Evening.

 

if there is a "beep" from the rear then they have done something they shouldn't have!! As I suggested elsewhere that sounds like they have used a spurious by-pass relay wiring kit, which as you have found from this thread is totally wrong. It also confirms that they haven't coded the car.

 

Have you contacted Skoda yet?

[hebrew]

Rang them today graham yes, I'm awaiting them getting back to me

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Llanigraham]

I suggest you mention this thread and the situation with Andy. I'm sure they will remember it!

[hebrew]

Ok thanks, I will if need be

[Merlinman]

dcl5ad - outsourced is correct, if it's not on the script you're goosed

[hebrew]

I suggest you mention this thread and the situation with Andy. I'm sure they will remember it!

Spoke to them today Graham, mentioned the briskoda website, never heard of it!!!

I was just speaking to a customer services lady, is there any other department I need to speak to as I'm getting nowhere with them at the moment. Same with the dealer

[Llanigraham]

The call centre op you spoke to probably hasn't heard of us, but the management certainly have!! When I made my complaint the person I dealt with actually said they did read here. You have to tell them that you wish to escalate the problem to a manager and not take no for an answer. 

 

Perhaps someone will be able to give a name.

[GordonY]

Dcl5ad,

I'm going through exactly the same thing as you've had, at the moment.

I picked my pre reg yeti adventure up on Saturday and I was graced with exactly the same as you. Witter tow bar hanging below the bumper, obviously no cover as it wouldn't go on anyway, a 7 pin socket which was supposed to be a 13 pin etc etc.

I've tried the electrics tonight and all there is is a beep at the rear when the indicators are turned on, nothing at all on the dash. So I assume they must have spliced into the loom at the rear somewhere.

Could you see where they had spliced into on yours ?

I'm awaiting a call from the dealer in the morning, there was no one available yesterday to speak to.

is your Witter towbar a detachable type (SK24Q) because I have one of these  (detachable flange) to fit to my Elegance when I eventually get it.

according to Witters fitting instructions for this bar and I quote

Note:

if desired,a bumper cover plate can be purchased from Skoda (part Numbers EEA 630 010 & HHA 381017) which allows the fitment of a cover to the bumper to hide the towbar when not towing.(Detachable tow balls only)

 

and also

Note: fit the neck kit(ZN) to the lower set of holes normally,or upper set if using the Skoda cover plate

 

ZN being recepticle/receiver for detachable towball

 

I assume a company like Witter would fit and test before marketting

[Cornishman53]

is your Witter towbar a detachable type (SK24Q) because I have one of these  (detachable flange) to fit to my Elegance when I eventually get it.

according to Witters fitting instructions for this bar and I quote

Note:

if desired,a bumper cover plate can be purchased from Skoda (part Numbers EEA 630 010 & HHA 381017) which allows the fitment of a cover to the bumper to hide the towbar when not towing.(Detachable tow balls only)

 

and also

Note: fit the neck kit(ZN) to the lower set of holes normally,or upper set if using the Skoda cover plate

 

ZN being recepticle/receiver for detachable towball

 

I assume a company like Witter would fit and test before marketting

 

I would concur fully with GordonY.

 

I have this towbar fitted with no problems, including the removeable panel

[rkenny]

Cornishman33 could you measure the height of your towball (to the centre of the ball)? I have a new factory fit Westphalia and on measuring the height it was 46.5 cm. It would be good to compare the height of the two installations. I am a little worried that my van will tow nose up - won't be able to try it until my first trip next month. The hitch height of my van is 44 cm so with a noseweight of 80kg, maybe the back of the car will drop enough to tow level.

[fireblade]

I've got a westfalia detachable towbar ( skoda oem product ) if any one needs one.....

[Llanigraham]

Cornishman33 could you measure the height of your towball (to the centre of the ball)? I have a new factory fit Westphalia and on measuring the height it was 46.5 cm. It would be good to compare the height of the two installations. I am a little worried that my van will tow nose up - won't be able to try it until my first trip next month. The hitch height of my van is 44 cm so with a noseweight of 80kg, maybe the back of the car will drop enough to tow level.

 

We have had this discussion here several times!

Consensus has been that the standard Westphalia is on the upper limit but as Johann found it can be rectified by changing the ball to a Touran (??) one.

This is Witter's comment:

http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/towbars/faq8.php

[Cornishman53]

Hello rkenny.

To the centre of the ball 42.5 cms.

Regards

[rkenny]

Thanks Cornishman. That adds something to the discussion. 42.5 cm would seem a better choice to ensure a nosedown attitude. I will know if the Westphalia works for me when I try it. Graham, I was aware of Johan's solution but was hoping to avoid the expense!