Saw a guy getting pulled on the M4 the other day, Slow moving tanker on a two lane stretch, couple of motorhomes moved over to over take and then decided they couldnt make it but a large line of cars etc had moved over to overtake the tanker as well. as there was a large line of vehicles in the outside lane one car pulled back in and accelerated up the inside, promptly follwed by the motorcycle cop who was sat on my bumper.

so question is, is under taking illegal in the UK? if so in what circumstances would it be deemed OK to undertake as I regularly spend time in the inside lane at a steady 60 while the outside lane gets heavily congested causing it to slow to 40 then speed up again, causing me and all the lorries to undertake (or am I missinterpreting it? to undertake do I have to actively change lanes to go around the inside of the other traffic?)

It's very dangerous to undertake not many people expect to be under taken. I am not sure on the law for under taken. But in heavy traffic on the motorway if your in the inside lane and the third lane fast lane stops which happens regularly and your lane is moving you have to stay with the flow of traffic.

The way I see it is:

If you are going faster than the traffic in the lane outside you and pass them, you are not necessarily undertaking - it's pulling back out in front of them that makes it dangerous.

The act of passing someone on the inside itself isn't particularly 'dangerous' - take into account passing other traffic when it is a 'stay in lane' section - but generally pulling back out from the inside to the outside (and directly in front of a car on the outside lane) once you've passed them is seen as driving without due care and attention and if the police see you, you'll be done as such.

YMMV with police - some will say undertaking is illegal - others will say that it's driving without due care and attention that's the main culprit and if it's seen to be completely controlled and well spaced out (and within the speed limits) then most will let it pass.

But more often than not, to pass someone up the inside will require a more dangerous manoeuvre and/or breaking the speed limit to do so, and so more often than not if the police see you, you're likely to get pulled.

Sitting in the outside lane when the inside lane is clear is what i would call driving without due care. Particularly on 3 lanes motorways the inside lane is quite often clear and you have the usual morons in the middle lane who never move from there and then people having to overtake them in lane 3. Quite often i just sit in the inside lane and sail past them (Middle lane morons are often doing less than 70mph too). This isn't undertaking, just following the flow of traffic.

Yes undertaking is illegal but if the gap is there to undertake then the car being undertaken is also acting illegally.

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

160

Once moving you should

• keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road
  

264

You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.

If there is a car in front of me in the overtaking lane I would stay in it behind them at a safe distance and wait till the driver in front has finished doing their thing. I find it annoying how people call this "traffic" especially if its only 3-4 cars and think its ok to undertake.

I wouldn't consider this as advanced driving/racing technique though :p

Nah this is kind of driving 101.

The act of going past people whilst on the inside lane is not undertaking itself if you're matching the flow of traffic. It's the act of pulling back out in front of said traffic itself is, which is dangerous as drivers don't expect to see people pulling out directly in front of them which is why you'd get done for driving without due care and attention if the police saw you.

You've got to consider as with all overtaking manoeuvres that you need to ensure you're not pulling out/in within the person behind you's braking distance, and not within your braking distance of someone in front of you. If you are, then it's a dangerous manoeuvre.

Like I said before, your mileage may vary with varying police - and in a few cases police actually WILL pull over said slow driver in the outside lane as it is driving without due care on their part. But at the same time that generally doesn't give you the right to pull dangerous moves yourself to get past.

If you have enough space and you don't have to break the law to do so, you can go past on the inside a la 268 - and if there's more than enough space in front/behind, you can pull back out - but be aware that obviously it has to be pretty clear that there is congestion in the overtaking lane caused by someone going excessively slow. In the event police see you doing this and you're doing all you can to be perfectly safe (i.e a controlled safe move without speeding and with plenty of braking space in front/behind), you'll more than likely not get pulled... And in fact the police are more likely to pull over said driver causing the congestion. Anything else and expect to have a word with mr plod.

Illegal, dangerous and bloody stupid IMO.

Lanes 2, 3, 4 etc are purely overtaking lanes and not to sit in no matter what the traffic conditions are.

The ONLY time it is OK to pass another car on the inside is when the traffic slows due to congestion but the lane you are currently in has not slowed as much, if you change to a lane on your inside then that makes you a pratt IMO and this type of behaviour is the biggest single reason why the motorways often do not work in the UK (inconsiderate driving)

Generally the standard of motorway driving in the UK is pretty poor, as those that undertake, lane hog and weave in and out of the traffic do not think they are doing anything wrong.

There is no specific offence of undertaking but it can form part of a "careless/dangerous driving" charge, especially where it is being used to gain advantage at the expense of other road users. As mentioned already, the big question when considering a pass to the left of a vehicle is are they on a set course, or are they likely to "wake up" and move to the left, potentially not seeing you if you're in their blindspot. Imho, it should be a last resort and should be done as you would overtake on a S/C road, ie considered (with an escape route identified), considerate and swift.

Also worth noting that if you're going to flash your lights at them, to let them know you're there, a mirror check is worthwhile to ensure there is no-one already undertaking that they're going to pull into as it could result in a big mess that will delay you even longer

Chris

Sitting in the outside lane when the inside lane is clear is what i would call driving without due care. Particularly on 3 lanes motorways the inside lane is quite often clear and you have the usual morons in the middle lane who never move from there and then people having to overtake them in lane 3. Quite often i just sit in the inside lane and sail past them (Middle lane morons are often doing less than 70mph too). This isn't undertaking, just following the flow of traffic.

Yes undertaking is illegal but if the gap is there to undertake then the car being undertaken is also acting illegally.

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

160

Once moving you should

• keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road
  

264

You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.

This just about covers it all.

If there is enough space to comfortably undertake someone then they shouldn't be in the middle/outside lane. Saying that I dont condone the stupid weaving in and out of cars to try and make progress at all.

I was more curious about the legality of it, having driven in th US a few times their attitude to "freeway" driving is so much better than motorway driving in this country. far better lane dicipline and most importantly every vehicle on the road is capable of the speed limit so ALL the traffic is fairly matched for speed. There are always some that will be going above the speed limit but not really a danger as the lane discipline helps this.

I was more curious about the legality of it, having driven in th US a few times their attitude to "freeway" driving is so much better than motorway driving in this country. far better lane dicipline and most importantly every vehicle on the road is capable of the speed limit so ALL the traffic is fairly matched for speed. There are always some that will be going above the speed limit but not really a danger as the lane discipline helps this.

Lane discipline in the US, seriously? I always hated driving on freeways as there is no lane discipline, undertake, overtake, all the same to them. Almost got RSI of the neck for the mirror and shoulder checks I needed to do to ensure I knew what was going on around me.

On the M25 there is four lanes in Essex now.

Most days the outside two are full of cars and the inside two are empty with just the odd lorry.

Why can't you drive up lane 1 at 70mph when everyone else is in lane 3 and 4 doing 65mph in "traffic"?

There is a whole empty lane between you and the other people driving incorrectly.

Are we all supposed to form a long queue in lane 4 when only half the road is being used?

I was more curious about the legality of it, having driven in th US a few times their attitude to "freeway" driving is so much better than motorway driving in this country. far better lane dicipline and most importantly every vehicle on the road is capable of the speed limit so ALL the traffic is fairly matched for speed. There are always some that will be going above the speed limit but not really a danger as the lane discipline helps this.

Thanks - This is the funniest thing I've read all morning, despite looking at cartoons! You do realise that there is a difference between "I am in this lane so I'm staying here" and "good lane discipline"?

On the M25 there is four lanes in Essex now.

Most days the outside two are full of cars and the inside two are empty with just the odd lorry.

Why can't you drive up lane 1 at 70mph when everyone else is in lane 3 and 4 doing 65mph in "traffic"?

There is a whole empty lane between you and the other people driving incorrectly.

Are we all supposed to form a long queue in lane 4 when only half the road is being used?

IMO you should be able to do so; the traffic is "moving in slow queues" since the HC omits any mention of what contitutes either a queue or "slow", and since I normally drive at 70 indicated on m/way, anything less is "slow" to me.

I thought undertaking is only illegal if you deliberately do it, ie move in from the middle lane and accelerate to pass through the car that is in the middle lane.

I find it strange if I am travelling at 70mph in lane 1 and I have to move to lane three to overtake the idiot who does 60 mph and sits in lane 2 for no reason.

I was on the M1 recently and an idiot in the Zafria decided to sit in lane 3 and do 65 mph, I was in lane 1 at the time doing 70 mph, does that constitute undertaking?

Edited 28 June, 201213 yr by My_Yeti

The biggest reason motorways don't work is people sitting in middle and outside lanes.

Edited 5 July, 201213 yr by evan15281

On-topic, but note what follows is for New Zealand only...

You live and learn every day. I've lived in NZ almost 16 years and have always followed the UK approach to overtaking on dual carriageways or 3-lane motorways (of which there are precisely none in Canterbury, NZ) i.e. overtake on the right. The number of people here who just sit in the outside lane at 95km/h and will not move over when there is no traffic in the inside lane drives me potty, but I'd always thought it illegal to "undertake". Reading this thread convinced me to take a look at the NZ Transport Agency official rule. Lo and behold, it's quite legal to undertake :clap: thus:

Edited 6 July, 201213 yr by Simon Cobb

Particular night I make a massive point about those sitting in the middle line! Will come up to them on the inside, move all the way to the outside to overtake, and then all the way back to the inside again (obviously without cutting them up). People just do what they like.

I agree that those seen to be intentionally undertaking (weaving through traffic) should be stopped. Undertaking when lanes of traffic vary in speed is fine.

The joys of motorways. I don't have any to contend with. Just dual carriage way and not as much traffic up here as there is down there. But it really iterates me when you have a truck trying to over take a truck and blocks both lanes. A new

Debate here are truckers allowed to over take a slower moving vehicle even if it takes them 10 miles to execute the manoeuvre?

The highway code is a great thing if people stick to it but that's the problem is some people just don't give a flying beep about what may happen.

I was more curious about the legality of it, having driven in th US a few times their attitude to "freeway" driving is so much better than motorway driving in this country. far better lane dicipline and most importantly every vehicle on the road is capable of the speed limit so ALL the traffic is fairly matched for speed. There are always some that will be going above the speed limit but not really a danger as the lane discipline helps this.

WOW - I thought they were awful! People undertaking randomly, very little discipline from what I saw around LA!

This thread is so old I can't remember if anyone has talked about lapping a CLOGie on a quiet 3-lane. Overtake them in lane 3, return to lane 1, solw so that they overtake you, then accelerate, pull out overtakien in L3...

Rinse and repeat until they pull in or you get bored!

This thread is so old I can't remember if anyone has talked about lapping a CLOGie on a quiet 3-lane. Overtake them in lane 3, return to lane 1, solw so that they overtake you, then accelerate, pull out overtakien in L3...

Rinse and repeat until they pull in or you get bored!

You see this all the time, I regularly cruise at ~70 and people O/T then pull in front and slow down forcing me to slow down or pull out. I rarely turn the cruise off or deviate from the set speed but they always seem to go through this cycle! Why they can’t stick to a speed I don’t know. I think the problem is people don’t like cars either in front of them or passing them.

I was more curious about the legality of it, having driven in th US a few times their attitude to "freeway" driving is so much better than motorway driving in this country. far better lane dicipline and most importantly every vehicle on the road is capable of the speed limit so ALL the traffic is fairly matched for speed. There are always some that will be going above the speed limit but not really a danger as the lane discipline helps this.

My experiance is US freeways is that they are very slow unless you want to weave in and out!

This thread is so old I can't remember if anyone has talked about lapping a CLOGie on a quiet 3-lane. Overtake them in lane 3, return to lane 1, solw so that they overtake you, then accelerate, pull out overtakien in L3...

Rinse and repeat until they pull in or you get bored!

I may (or may not ...) have done this when I returned from the Midlands last Saturday. It only took 2 laps round the offending middle lane hog got the message.

Middle lane hoggers need points adding to their license - they are just as much a bloody pain in the backside.

I came home with my wife late one evening and passed people just sat in the middle lane.

There was NOTHING in the 2nd lane, hence I have to go from lane 2 to 4 to 2 again.

/rage