We're toying with changing our Superb for a new one whilst the VAT free and 0% finance is on, but found the part-exchange value pretty grim at only £4,000. We're just coming up to 45,000 miles and spent a tidy sum last year on new cambelts, waterpump, rear pads and change of transmission fluid and filter. I know these cars do loose value, but this seems a bit steep. It's an 07 plate on a V6 Elegance tiptronic by the way.

I think they maybe give with one hand with the VAT and finance offers and then take it back with the other on the part-exchange value!

I may try to sell privately, but it's not so easy as we live in Brecon and it's a bit out in the sticks for a car with a fairly limited market and advertising in the local rag is probably a complete waste of money.

I think you're right - there will always be a trade-off in some way, shape or form :think: .

But I don't think you should be too dis-heartened. Had I not bought mine a few months ago, I wouldn't hesitate to travel to Brecon to look at an '07 plate at that mileage and price.

GLWTS

Gaz

Anybody genuinely interested in the right car will be willing to travel some distance.

Was that a local trade in?

What about looking to take it to a dealer where there may be more demand to buy your next one..

Diesel v6 07

Autotrader not many £6.5k 60k with one asking nearly £9k for a 36k one

V6 a bit steep on tax. K £270

we looked at a local 1.9 elegance 2004/54 60k £5k

So I think you should get more than £4k for yours,

unless it is the 2.8 petrol

Edited 14 June, 201213 yr by P&N

It was offered by a main dealer, but they don't seem to sell anything older than three years and send cars like mine off to auction where the price is not going to be much more.

I'm still planning on looking around to try and get a better deal, but I don't have much time before the 0% VAT offer expires.

As always, the cars for sale seem so much higher in price than the price you can get when you trade them in. But this can be expected when you factor in a full valet, the cost of carrying the stock, any refurbishment needed, output VAT on the margin and they will usually give a discount to the buyer when a deal is struck.

Unfortunately you have the less desirable engine and gearbox available (but MUCH better than the PD140) so it is going to reflect in the price, on the other hand the mileage is low and yours is a good trim level.

Are you looking at ordering a new car or buying one from stock? if the former then you will have a few months to try and sell the car privately, if you can't shift it then you always have the dealers offer to fall back upon.

0% VAT is only on petrol Mk2s at least in the eye-pleasing Estate shape. Diesel Estate Superbs are excluded from any offers.

At 45k miles, you have not even run in your V6 you might want to keep it quite a bit longer.

I have 105k miles on mine (06), a lot of high speed trips with full engine power for hours at a time, and the car drives like new.

I expect yet another 3-5 years of high speed motorway use. The only things changed in addition to filters, oil, brake pads were shock absorbers, a new battery and 3 CV boots. Plus preventive re-sealing of pollen filter housing and removal of brake servo bungs to prevent water ingress. I DIY everything, including timing belt replacement, which may be a factor in longevity as my experience with garages is rather hair raising.

Mk2 Superb is slower, more fuel thirsty and less comfortable than Mk1 due to transverse engine layout and shorter wheelbase.

For taller people, the console shape is worse biting the left leg quite hard, in fact I daresay an Octavia and even a Roomster are more comfortable if you are over 6ft.

DSG boxes might use less fuel and change gears quicker, but in real life traffic jam use they wear out clutches and have no "crawl mode", ie not as comfortable as a tiptronic. I do not like autos, but if I ever buy one, it'll be the Audi A6 8-spd tiptronic (old style auto, hydrokinetic converter), of course with permanent quattro drive and a 313bhp V6 diesel attached to it.

Plus the new engines' fuel economy figures are achievable only in lab testing, never on the road. I have direct experience of it with the new Roomster I bought for my wife. On paper, the 1.6CR 105 TDI engine should use 20% less fuel than the Octavia 1.9IP 110 TDI engine it replaced. But since day one the Roomster is using almost exactly same amounts of fuel as the Mk1 Octavia did. Which is exactly what I expected (Roomie is lighter, but has higher air drag than Octy), but completely different to fuel economy numbers (Roomster 120g CO2, Octavia 150g CO2). Though to be fair, the 1.6CR engine is a nice runner, used no oil whatsoever over first 3.5k miles (1.9tdi did use oil) and has a belt change interval of 130k miles. Never as smooth as your V6 is, though, worth keeping in mind.

But the point is, you already have a well working car, why change it for one that will not deliver savings and offer reduced comfort and performance... I'd keep that car if I were you until at least 100k as you will get a lot better value from it, even with the higher fuel and tax bills. The only thing to watch out for is a decent mechanic to do the timing belt replacement, but even that is at least 2 years away at your pace.

Edited 15 June, 201213 yr by dieselV6

I am inclined to agree

What are the reasons for changing.

If it is a good clean well maintained motor it will have years left in it, if the known problem areas are fixed before they become a problem.

(or have these been done allready like the water ingress issues)

OK there may be some maintanence but you will have £10k+ in the bank to pay for those.

If you want the new car feel will it come up with a top end valet and a bit of money fixing any niggles.

Edited 15 June, 201213 yr by P&N

Just factor in a possible VP44 failure and hope that the tax bands don't diverge even more. For a low annual mileage, the tax on a V6 auto preloads the running costs. For higher annual mileages the VP44 bites.

Bring back the PD130/5 speed manual - best drive train by a mile.

rotodiesel.

Rotodiesel, Penpusher already has the V6, post 2004 so VP44 failure is not a realistic threat, at least less probable than a 1.9PD injector failure due to water in fuel in winter.

Would you really give up a known, owned from new V6 and pay over the odds for an unknown, used PD130? I would not, even if it used half the fuel (which it most definitely does not).

Plus I think you might find from another post that at least from time to time he travels across Europe, and for autobahn that PD130 is just skint

Edit: Here is my earlier post detailing history of VP44 and generally 2.5V6 problems, they disappeared post 2004

http://www.briskoda....ost__p__2332915

Edited 15 June, 201213 yr by dieselV6

I'm afraid the VP44 failure problem has not gone away - possibly improved. The notion of putting electronics inside a diesel pump and expecting reliable operation given the levels of vibration and thermal cycling is ridiculous. Luckily, the VP44 was a short lived design although everyone had problems with it, especially GM.

The early PD system with the Bosch solenoid controlled injectors is reliable and gives a far greater engine efficiency than is possible with an old low pressure rotary pump. Compare the SFC and CO2 outputs (or compare the tax brackets for each). Any diesel engine will give serious trouble if water gets into the fuel. The filter with its associated agglomerator are put there to stop it. It's a pity VAG position it such that nobody bothers to open the water drain.

The V6 would be almost OK if it had higher final drive gearing than the PD - but it doesn't. All of the extra torque available is effectively useless at higher speeds. In a country with a 70 mph blanket speed limit, the V6 makes no sense at all - and it's extra weight makes the Superb's boat-like handling even worse - if that's possible.

When I bought my Superb, I went out of my way to test drive a V6 auto as I use it for towing. The V6 won some crappy award as a tow car - but compared with a 1.9/130 manual there was absolutely no comparison. The slush box kills it stone dead from rest with a heavy load.

rotodiesel.

Edited 15 June, 201213 yr by rotodiesel

Still missing the point, owner has had the V6 from new, it makes no sense to change to used PD130 under any conditions unless the current car is broken.

VP44: GM had problems, VW had problems. GM ducked head in the sand without fixing the issue. VW seems to have solved them (their premium diesel 2.7/3.0V6 development depended on similar design), as the only reports we can read on this forum (and actually Passat B5/B55 and Audi A4/A6 forums) are from pre-2004 engines. Same for hydraulic tappets etc. Bottom line is, VP44 on post2004 VW engine will give problems under similar conditions as the VP or PD VW engine would, ie water in fuel, agro fuel, or agro fuel ""cleaned" by adding hydrochloric/sulphuric acid, or engine ran dry then primed by cranking etc..

Re boat handling, have you heard about Bilstein Sports B6 monotube shock absorbers? I probably was the first person on this forum to post about using them, but I am sure there are many other happy users, and at least several people upgraded since. Blame too soft shock absorbers not the engine, as the difference in weight is not that big given overall Superb's weight. I can assure you my superb does not handle like a boat, though it started to show this predisposition after 15k miles (incidentally, same mileage on Octavia before it started happening). My Superb's Bilsteins are now into 6th year and ~90k miles, and still good as new.

Three basic points:

A low pressure injection diesel will never come close to matching the efficiency of the PD or CR systems.

Putting electronics inside a diesel pump is just asking for trouble. Every maker that has done it has had problems, especially Delphi.

I choose and buy a car to use - modifying the suspension is not on my radar, only replacements for fair wear and tear.

rotodiesel.

Then your shock absorbers are worn and torn since you have boat handling, why not replace them with something that works, ie B6?

Plus once again, the point of original post was considering replacement of a V6 auto held from new and working fine. Used PD130 is a really bad choice right now, as it is overpriced and won't take the owner where he wants to go.

Perhaps you could focus the effort on what would be a like for like replacement for current Superb V6 auto? Certainly not Mk2 Superb unless they decide to put petrol 200bhp 4-cyl with manual gearbox, or a long awaited but never materialised outside VW Sport division I5 diesel. DSG gearbox looks fine on paper and in the first years of use, then clutches become an issue. Newer DSG boxes have more gears at the bottom to address this, but nothing will replace continuous torque of the auto box in crawl mode or owner's brain+manual box combo.

I daresay if you want like for like capability wise, you have to look at high end Audis and the Phaeton.

Merits of V6 vs I4 are another story, I posted the technical side only to prevent your regular scaremongering about the VP44 pump. Efficiency is moot point if your car has to move faster than a barge.

Edited 15 June, 201213 yr by dieselV6

I would say your dealer is well off the mark with hsi offer. I have just traded in an 06 Superb elegance 2-5 diesel 51000 miles and they gave me five and half thousand for it against a 61 plate 1.8tsi superb elegance

Don't know if that is any help to you

jimw

That's very interesting, yerrmann, thank you!

Of course, it depends what margin they're making on the car they're selling you as well.

Do Škoda pay all the discount in the 0% VAT offer, or do the dealers have to contribute something? If they don't, they'll be making a very good margin if they only knock off the VAT. I was planning on a new car under their 0% VAT offer rather than a stock car. I'm not too keen on selling the car privately if I can help it. Anyone interested would want a test drive and you have to check that they're insured.

Thanks for all your comments above. I'm a fairly relaxed driver and the gearing and handling are fine for me as I don't go round corners on two wheels and I don't go above 80 mph, even in Germany on the autobahn.

I have contemplating keeping the car a bit longer. I had the cambelts changed, a new water pump and transmission fluid and filter changed only last year. However, there is no dealer or VW specialist within 40 miles of us and it is pain to take the car for repair if anything is wrong.

From another angle, I have just turned 60 and remember over 25 years ago in our office someone who was the same age as I am now died suddenly. He never took a day off, went on holiday or spent anything that was not essential. He saved every penny he could and had amassed a small fortune in the bank. He's now one of the richest corpses in the graveyard! We have no children and both of us are working and I intend to enjoy life and use the money I work hard for!

It's not so much a matter of saving, more the fact that VW killed any possible direct replacements Mk1 Superb. What's left are inferior cars at VW/Skoda/Seat, or cars overstuffed with gizmos at Audi stable.

Until 2010, a logical replacement choice for me was to get an A6 3.0TDI quattro V6 6-spd man, it cost "only" double the Superb's price. Now a similarly specced quattro V6 A6 costs nearer to triple the price, and has mandatory auto box or you lose quattro and over a third of horsepower.

Once again, no 0% VAT offer on Fabia 1.4 SE, VRS and DSG. Octavia Scout and 4x4. Superb Estate all diesel models. Roomster DSG models. All Yeti models. Seats do not fold fully in hatchback Superb, so unless you want petrol estate or diesel hatchback Superb, there will be no offer.

Edited 15 June, 201213 yr by dieselV6

I went to another dealer on Monday who offered £5,900 for the car, so I signed up to trade it in against a hatch 170 DSG Elegance with L&K pack.

I'm not going to try and sell it privately now as I can't imagine I'd get much more than that and I'll have all the inconvenience that goes with it plus the possibility of being without a car for a while unless I'm really lucky and sell it the day before the new one arrives!

They spent quite a bit of time looking at the car (there were three of them going over it), so they did make a proper assessment and not just look it up in their Glasses Guide. They were very complementary and said it looks like new!

Although I'm looking forward to getting the new car, I'm sad to see this one go as it is such a good car. SWMBO thinks the inside of the V6 is better quality, such as the armrests are softer and the centre console with wood and chrome looks like a Rolls Royce! Still, we've made our choice and mustn't start regretting it!

I'm afraid the VP44 failure problem has not gone away - possibly improved. The notion of putting electronics inside a diesel pump and expecting reliable operation given the levels of vibration and thermal cycling is ridiculous. Luckily, the VP44 was a short lived design although everyone had problems with it, especially GM.

The failure of VP44 pumps is quite specific, there is one power transistor controlling the spill valve solenoid and this transistor or a connection to the transistor fails.

From 2003 across all brands this failure stopped occuring. Bosch fixed it.

This failure is completely different to the vast majority of US Dodge Cummins VP44 failures.

The early PD system with the Bosch solenoid controlled injectors is reliable and gives a far greater engine efficiency than is possible with an old low pressure rotary pump. Compare the SFC and CO2 outputs (or compare the tax brackets for each). Any diesel engine will give serious trouble if water gets into the fuel. The filter with its associated agglomerator are put there to stop it. It's a pity VAG position it such that nobody bothers to open the water drain.

To be honest I haven't found any significant difference in BSFC across direct injection diesels over the last 3 decades. The best engines can break 200 g/kwh at best point, the rest are around 205-210. This hasn't changed since the days of mechanical inline injection pumps. What has changed is the power density and emissions levels. We needed commonrail to get there.

CO2 ratings are about the complete engine/drivetrain/vehicle package, any one of those can compromise the result.

I went to another dealer on Monday who offered £5,900 for the car, so I signed up to trade it in against a hatch 170 DSG Elegance with L&K pack.

...

SWMBO thinks the inside of the V6 is better quality...

Your SWMBO is right, plus if you drive in traffic jams, I daresay you have more mileage left in the V6 autobox than in the newly ordered DSG box. Sad, but true, DSG wins hands down but only when the car is moving, loses badly to tiptronic when the car is starting to move. Still, it is your call.

I am not selling mine for another 100k miles at least (that's 200k+ total), and I could afford pretty much anything in current Audi range, For tall people (6ft5in here), at present there is just nothing worth buying in entire VW group stable if you actually drive the car a lot and expect good drivetrain, underbody protection and suspension complicated just enough to offer good ride rather than height adjustment (un)reliability. A6 Allroad 313bhp comes close, but the air suspension is a turn off. Shorter folk are spoilt for choice, though, budget Seat Exeo, or A4/A5 3.0 quattro 6-spd manual if you can afford it.