So I picked up the car last night in the rain, half hour drive home, including pushing it a bit round some roundabouts, and no scares whatsoever. Seemed to grip well on the front. Not tried emergency stop yet but happy enough so far so not planning to panic and change them just yet.

Liking the engine so far.....

Did you get from West Sussex Motors, or Clarion maybe?

^{Actually it came from Yeomans Citroen in Fareham, it was a trade in and they thought it too good not to out on their forecourt. Got good deal as they wanted rid after it sat for some time and they needed space for a Citroen! Bought new from and looked after by Sparshatts in Fareham.}

You've hit the nail on the head there. This has nothing to do with "brand" and has everything to do with "performance".

If a budget tyre outperformed or matched the performance of the premium tyres, the yes I'd have them like a shot. Trouble is, in my experience they are nowhere near the performance of the best in the class.

And yes, i have all the airbag options

x2

Look, you're never gonna convince some people that saving £50 every couple of years is more important than not flying off the road due to a budget tyre's dodgy compound make-up letting you down in much the same way that as a firefighter I see a LOT of people saying they'll take fire safety and smoke alarms more seriously AFTER i've finished putting the kitchen fire that's now trashed their entire downstairs out!! Some people just won't have it until AFTER the event!

Personally, i've had experience of good cars being let down badly by budget tyres AND i've had experiences of powerful cars being let down by expensive tyres too: thing is it's very much more often the former which is why I now buy Michelin PS3's or the new Goodyear Eagle F1's... and that's it!

Example: the only reason there are patterns in the tyres are because it's to disperse water; if it was always dry, the best tyres to get would be slicks like in Formula one. Therefore, it's a compromise as to what you're after so it's not as simple as just the make of tyre, you need to take in how it performs in the wet & dry and the braking distance, and to a lesser extent, how long it'll last, although that should realistically be way down the list as they're the only four points of contact with the road regardless of whether it's a skoda or a zonda!

I had a Golf G60: fast car, pretty light, very agile, 2wd with a supercharger. I used to use Yokohama A539's (I think!). Now, if you don't know, these tyres are a very high quality, well respected make with a motorsport pedigree. They wouldn't last as long as others because of the softer compound, but because of that same soft compound, they were phenomenally good on the dry, but I found them to aquaplane a little when it was soaking wet, which would make the car slide, which was okay if you knew it was potentially coming as I did. Shortly after that, I stuck with the old design Eagle F1's, and they were brilliant all round!! At the same time and previous to that, I was also running a standard 1.6 golf cl with budget tyres cos I figured it wasn't very pokey and less likely to be thrown around and need the extra grip (it DID have a VERY good upgrade on the suspension though, similar to the G60, as I don't like cars to wallow around).

GOOD GOD!!! Even with a weaker engine making the car a LOT less powerful and less inclined to even be able to hare around a bit, the difference in the holding ability in both wet & dry conditions was noticable! Don't get me wrong, perhaps for some it would have been fine, but the contrast was startling. Tried a few budget makes (as well as doing that on my car when I was at college), thinking it was a one off, but no.

Since then, i've never hit a budget brand cos even at slow speeds I almost ended in a ditch a few times, mainly in the rain!

Admittedly, times have changed and manufacturing moves on, but I hold with the principle that, yes, we've all bought a Skoda instead of a VW/Audi, BUT the engineering is a known quantity, and we all know that it's daft things like the 5mm bit of plastic on Climatronic stopping you from having an on/off switch, and the fact Recaro seats aren't an option are the differences here, NOT whether or not it'll slide you into another car cos it's made of hard, hard rubber that won't give. Equally, ceramic brakes can be duff on a road car cos they're TOO efficient, but they're designed more for tracks to prevent glazing, so it can go both ways. Yes, sometimes the tyre may just be an old design, but there are other factors such as the quality of rubber, the manufacturing process, the precision of the design copy, etc. that can make a big, big difference on something that looks the same.

Most big tyre manufacturers make different tyres for different reasons: Michelin make energy ones, ecological ones, performance ones, winter ones, long-wearing ones, quiet ones, comfortable ones and they're all their for a reason cos there's many, many different styles of personal driving: I have a 1.8t and every once in a blue moon I have a spirited drive so I go for the performance ones for when I need it, and that is at the expense of longevity as they're bound to be softer compound. If you potter around at 30 everywhere, you may as well go for energy tyres which last ages. Know your style and buy accordingly. Some tyres ARE overpriced, and that's why you need to get all available information and simply make an informed choice. Do some research, make a choice or a few if you can, and spend what you're comfortable with, remembering that they are THE most important aftermarket thing you have to buy on a car, and if it looks a little iffy but will save you 50 notes over the space of a year or two, is it really worth it for the lives of you or your family??

It's only that i've cut enough people out of cars & lorries to know which side of the fence I stand on.

Just my two penneth!

If it's of any help, the main INDEPENDANT website I use to see what tyres are like from actual drivers, NOT magazines (although they do link to test reviews) is the following, hope it helps: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/

Edited 6 July, 201213 yr by blackspaven

^^^ Nice read ^^^ blackspaven

Thanks

^^^ Nice read ^^^ blackspaven

Thanks

+1

There are some very good points there Blackspaven that I would totally agree with - the issue is, IMHO, how the tyre performs in the real world, not what make it is and not what it costs. Personally, for my three cars for many years, I've been sticking with tyres that have a high silicon compound and good wet weather grip and aquaplaning resistance as, in general in this country, this is far more important to me that outright dry weather performance.

I'm not saying the latter is not still a high priority, but, having a small, light, rear wheel drive car that originally came with poor performing (but Dunlop) tyres I got caught out over the years a couple of times at low speeds on roundabouts and ended up facing the wrong way - so learnt my lesson quickly! Needless to say with a slight change in priority on tyre performance and a resulting change of tyres this has not happened again and I still have no issues in summer weather.

I also had the infamous Dunlop SP01 cracking on all 4 OE tyres within 18 months of purchase so now avoid Dunlop like the plague!

As an aside and to all those who talk about only using Michelin tyres - I have a friend who works for Michelin as a tyre developer / designer and she has told me on numerous occasions that they have had problems with thier Michelin branded tyres and that thier budget brand (Kleber iirc) have been outperforming the Michelin branded ones by a good margin.

The moral I guess that is being repeated by a number of posters is don't just go cheap or branded - do some research and go on performance!

Edited 6 July, 201213 yr by skomaz

+1

There are some very good points there Blackspaven that I would totally agree with - the issue is, IMHO, how the tyre performs in the real world, not what make it is and not what it costs. Personally, for my three cars for many years, I've been sticking with tyres that have a high silicon compound and good wet weather grip and aquaplaning resistance as, in general in this country, this is far more important to me that outright dry weather performance.

I'm not saying the latter is not still a high priority, but, having a small, light, rear wheel drive car that originally came with poor performing (but Dunlop) tyres I got caught out over the years a couple of times at low speeds on roundabouts and ended up facing the wrong way - so learnt my lesson quickly! Needless to say with a slight change in priority on tyre performance and a resulting change of tyres this has not happened again and I still have no issues in summer weather.

I also had the infamous Dunlop SP01 cracking on all 4 OE tyres within 18 months of purchase so now avoid Dunlop like the plague!

As an aside and to all those who talk about only using Michelin tyres - I have a friend who works for Michelin as a tyre developer / designer and she has told me on numerous occasions that they have had problems with thier Michelin branded tyres and that thier budget brand (Kleber iirc) have been outperforming the Michelin branded ones by a good margin.

The moral I guess that is being repeated by a number of posters is don't just go cheap or branded - do some research and go on performance!

Yeah, good points.

Likewise, I used to sell guitars and the two make/models that even people who aren't knowledgable know about, the benchmarks in the trade are the Fender Stratocaster and the Gibson Les Paul. Now, equally both of those models have historically had bad eras of construction even though the design is basically the same as it was in the 50's. As a contrast, Both makes have 'budget' brands in the names of Fender's Squire and Gibson's Epiphone and I have a mate who had a lovely Squire model he rated higher than some genuine USA made Fender strats, and when I WAS in the trade about 16-17 years ago, Gibson were going through a period that the £250-300 Epiphone Les Paul's they were shipping to us were SO much better built than the £1100 genuine equivalents!! Nowadays, Gibson no longer 'build' the guitars by hand in the US as they had done for 50 odd years, but simply get everything made in the orient and shipped to the States to put together, yet people are paying more than ever for the same guitar built at a lower quality!

So it happens it all areas of life. Remember: caveat emptor - buyer beware!!

I now buy Michelin PS3's or the new Goodyear Eagle F1's... and that's it!

I used to use Yokohama A539's (I think!). I stuck with the old design Eagle F1's,

Michelin make energy ones, ecological ones, performance ones, winter ones, long-wearing ones, quiet ones, comfortable ones

I'm not a goodyear fan, in fact I'm about to remove 4 (excellence) from the wife's car on 3mm due to there poor wet weather grip, they are shocking. but I have to say the F1 Assymetrical 2 tyre is the best tyre they have made, the F1 I recon is one of the best all round tyres out there at the moment, or the Hankook S1 evo2.

Yes I had some A539's and back then Yoko's were not so good in the wet, they have advanced now no end and still provide the all important feel, which many other tyre's just can't match, I never got on with the old F1's as 'v' tread patters are the worst for lack of feel together with aquaplaning.

Michelin still strugle to produe a balanced tyre with feel and are not to progressive on the limit however, still good tyre's and they do what they say, they do more miles than any other due to there harder compound. .

I'm not a goodyear fan, in fact I'm about to remove 4 (excellence) from the wife's car on 3mm due to there poor wet weather grip, they are shocking. but I have to say the F1 Assymetrical 2 tyre is the best tyre they have made, the F1 I recon is one of the best all round tyres out there at the moment, or the Hankook S1 evo2.

I'd have to disagree with you there. I have the Excellences all round and find them, well, excellent in the wet. They are the first tyre I've used where I can drive at a puddle and be confident that the car will travel straight and true through it and come out the other side. I've had Avons, Uniroyals, Pirellis etc in the past and none have given me the same confidence. Seems strange how people's experience of the same tyres varies so much? They do wear quite quickly though because they have a quite grippy compound.

Worst ever tyre I have experienced? Pirelli P6000. Horrendous. No grip at all and yet many major luxuary cars have these fitted as standard from the factory.

Also, to note - most budget brands buy their tyre molds from the major manufacturers after a new tread pattern has been launched and the molds are no longer required. Yes, this means that they are a little worn and less precise but the difference is quite insignificant. It is the quality of the rubber compounds they use that really makes the difference.

I'd have to disagree with you there. I have the Excellences all round and find them, well, excellent in the wet. They are the first tyre I've used where I can drive at a puddle and be confident that the car will travel straight and true through it and come out the other side. I've had Avons, Uniroyals, Pirellis etc in the past and none have given me the same confidence. Seems strange how people's experience of the same tyres varies so much? They do wear quite quickly though because they have a quite grippy compound.

Worst ever tyre I have experienced? Pirelli P6000. Horrendous. No grip at all and yet many major luxuary cars have these fitted as standard from the factory.

I'd have put the Avon's as more grippy than these Excellence, her car before had Kumho's and mine wears Yokohama's, so maybe I'm asking to much of the excellence, her car has done 25k on these tyre's, that to me says they are a very hard compound, make's me think they have changed the compound since 2009.

P6000 by far not the worst tyre I've come across, but yes, horrendous, but that said, what were the other tyres like when it was relised as it's quite old now. .

Also, to note - most budget brands buy their tyre molds from the major manufacturers after a new tread pattern has been launched and the molds are no longer required. Yes, this means that they are a little worn and less precise but the difference is quite insignificant. It is the quality of the rubber compounds they use that really makes the difference.

rwbalwin & I already said that.

2/10, must read all subject matter before commenting.

Calling them 'budgets' or 'premium' doesn't help. This suggests that there is a difference in quality which isn't always the case.

It is simply a case of one costs more or less than the other.

A tyre that costs more than another tyre isn't neccessarily the better product.

Simply reading the difference of opinion on here over the same branded tyre just proves that online reviews aren't neccessarily a true or accurate reflection of a tyre's quality.

To state that because one tyre costs less than another instantly makes it a poorer performer (or in other words more dangerous) is not always true.

Edited 6 July, 201213 yr by silver1011

I have the Excellences all round and find them, well, excellent in the wet. They are the first tyre I've used where I can drive at a puddle and be confident that the car will travel straight and true through it and come out the other side.

Worst ever tyre I have experienced? Pirelli P6000. Horrendous. No grip at all and yet many major luxuary cars have these fitted as standard from the factory.

Know what you mean, but to be honest, most of my bad experiences of slipping in the wet have been going round bends (not necessarily at great speed!) where you suddenly get understeer as you lose traction. THAT'S what I'm most concerned about with wet weather driving.

I always get confused with Pirelli's cos they do a p6, p600 & p6000 and I can never remember which way round the expensive one is! Had a set of (I think) p600's once; they were okay, nothing mindblowing to set them apart from anything else. :zzz:

Calling them 'budgets' or 'premium' doesn't help. This suggests that there is a difference in quality which isn't always the case.

It is simply a case of one costs more or less than the other.

A tyre that costs more than another tyre isn't neccessarily the better product.

Simply reading the difference of opinion on here over the same branded tyre just proves that online reviews aren't neccessarily a true or accurate reflection of a tyre's quality.

To state that because one tyre costs less than another instantly makes it a poorer performer (or in other words more dangerous) is not always true.

Agreed, but tyrereviews is the only site i've seen which gives opinions of both magazines, test companies AND us commoners. And to be fair, it's not jsut a couple of people. When you're looking at 100+ people all saying a certain tyre's amazing, it's probably a good sign, especially when we all know that usually the only time people comment on something online is when it's shockingly bad, just to have a whinge! Also, it's broken down into various categories, so if you're after some specific attribute in your tyre you can see it (often it's at the expense of something else, like grip over longevity, understandably).

Pretty sure there's a few 'decent' quality brand tyres on there that have gottena right slating for one thing or another.

Edited 6 July, 201213 yr by blackspaven

And the answer to the original question is… :think:

I always get confused with Pirelli's cos they do a p6, p600 & p6000 and I can never remember which way round the expensive one is! Had a set of (I think) p600's once;

Did the P6 not get replaced with the P600 which was then replaced with the P6000, none of which really impresed much. .

And the answer to the original question is… :think:

It's up to you. . .

And the answer to the original question is… :think:

I thought it did get answered in that you should see how they go and make your own choice? That's why all the discussion to back up that point started wasn;t it??

rwbalwin & I already said that.

2/10, must read all subject matter before commenting.

Oops!

Must try harder.

Not a bad response and debate for a first post then!

Not done many miles yet but driven the car in various road conditions and have to say so far the tyres have given me plenty of confidence, even pushing it round corners and roundabouts. I am no expert, enjoy my cars and driving, am an enthusiastic driver but no car 'enthusiast'.

I wonder how many of us here can really tell the difference between tyres as much as many have said? In blind tests would we all rate the 'brands' better than 'budget' whilst going about our everyday driving - not sure if I would?? Suspect there is such a small differences in quality that we would find it difficult to tell them apart, of course testing them at their limits round test tracks we no doubt would but in everyday driving.......not so sure.

Of course the only real test is when you REALLY need your tyres to perform, that emergency stop or last minute swerve...that's when those tyres that have performed well in expert tests may make all the difference. Driver skill and judgment equally important though.

Not a bad response and debate for a first post then!

Not done many miles yet but driven the car in various road conditions and have to say so far the tyres have given me plenty of confidence, even pushing it round corners and roundabouts. I am no expert, enjoy my cars and driving, am an enthusiastic driver but no car 'enthusiast'.

I wonder how many of us here can really tell the difference between tyres as much as many have said? In blind tests would we all rate the 'brands' better than 'budget' whilst going about our everyday driving - not sure if I would?? Suspect there is such a small differences in quality that we would find it difficult to tell them apart, of course testing them at their limits round test tracks we no doubt would but in everyday driving.......not so sure.

Of course the only real test is when you REALLY need your tyres to perform, that emergency stop or last minute swerve...that's when those tyres that have performed well in expert tests may make all the difference. Driver skill and judgment equally important though.

Unless the tyres are ridiculously bad road holding, which is unlikely in normal conditions, the single factor that will affect anyone straight away is noise. So many modern tyres seem prone to road noise until you get onto that wonderful new surfacing they use on some motorways - what a difference. It is as if your engine has been turned off.

Not a bad response and debate for a first post then!

Not done many miles yet but driven the car in various road conditions and have to say so far the tyres have given me plenty of confidence, even pushing it round corners and roundabouts. I am no expert, enjoy my cars and driving, am an enthusiastic driver but no car 'enthusiast'.

I wonder how many of us here can really tell the difference between tyres as much as many have said? In blind tests would we all rate the 'brands' better than 'budget' whilst going about our everyday driving - not sure if I would?? Suspect there is such a small differences in quality that we would find it difficult to tell them apart, of course testing them at their limits round test tracks we no doubt would but in everyday driving.......not so sure.

Of course the only real test is when you REALLY need your tyres to perform, that emergency stop or last minute swerve...that's when those tyres that have performed well in expert tests may make all the difference. Driver skill and judgment equally important though.

Definitely. Luckily, my brigade have paid to put me on extended testing driving 14t fire engines with a tonne of water sloshing around in the back to make it more... exciting! So i've had a bit of experience of being made to drive on the limit, especially through red lights and whatnot, and it's that moment of extreme conditions where the tyre makes a difference.

I wonder how many of us here can really tell the difference between tyres as much as many have said?

True I doubt many average driver's would even notice a difference. No one on here is going to admit to not been able to tell the difference, are they.

Definitely. Luckily, my brigade have paid to put me on extended testing driving 14t fire engines with a tonne of water sloshing around in the back to make it more... exciting! So i've had a bit of experience of being made to drive on the limit, especially through red lights and whatnot, and it's that moment of extreme conditions where the tyre makes a difference.

I presume you have to take into account the tip over factor around corners? must be weid feeling the water unsettle the vehicle?

Yeah, there's a strange innertia that you have to take into account as you can be doing 20-30 round a roundabout and all of a suddenly the water shifts and the thing can just go from under you! If it happens on a right hand bend though, it's a bit scary cos you've only got the pavement on your left if it does go! It's not that you're necessarily going too fast for the road, occasionally it just tests you for no reason and, ironically for this thread, there's probably only a choice a a few tyres for a vehicle that size and most lorries will never be tested as hard so they're not really built for performance!

Thing is, it's not like a rear wheel drive car at the point it goes, probably cos the whole thing weighs so much, but you get a wierd understeer where the whole vehicle shifts/slides sideways and then if you let off the gas or regain traction it suddenly grips the road and the front bites back so you have to be aware of correcting the then oversteer; reacts a little like a car but the snap back is more vicious. In driving in general one is always told to turn into the skid which is basically what to do. It's almost impossible to flip, but in the childlike way all of us are, you do get some good reactions from the guys in the back if it slides like buggery then pulls back.

Still, it was good fun sliding round cones and doing energency stops from 80mph on a deserted runway to give you a feel of what happens!!

They'll be fine if you don't drive fast, if you want to rag it then get some better ones. (I assume by engine choice you don't plan of driving like a granny.

I don't see why you should have a problem selling them on, don't expect much for them though.

The other problem of course is that most people go from nearly bald tyres to brand new, which regardless of how good or bad, are always going to feel better that the old bald ones.