Citigo ASG

[Leon-y-k]

Hi everyone!

After an unfortunate accident my dads fabia has been written off, everyone was safe and sound and we now need to look for a new car for him.

He has a commute of around 60 miles 2-3 times a week, and on the other days off he only needs to drive 5-10 miles max, maybe the occasional trip up to Wales.

I'm thinking an SE ASG would be the perfect spec for him for trouble free motoring. I understand that the ASG box actually gives the Citigo a 1.3mpg advantage over the manual version.

Will it be a reliable gear box? I've heard some bad news on the Citroen c2 box's so I'm hoping it will be a nice box!

He doesn't need the heated seats, or PID, but it's a shame that the 75bhp is only available on the Elegance spec, will it be a big difference coming from an 80bhp 1.4 petrol, down to a 1.0 60bhp Citigo?

I'm assuming the car size will change the driving style quite dramatically. My dad doesn't drive very fast, so I'm just hoping it will be the right choice of engine. and for around £100 a months on PCP thats a pretty good buy!

He hasn't driven one yet, but we're going to see what the figures are when he gets his money back for the written off Fabia.

[Phil-E]

Unfortunately it is a brand new box so no saying if it will be reliable or not.

It is similar in principle to the DSG boxes but without dual clutches. It just has one clutch so the changes won't be quite as seemless as the DSG box.

The car is smaller and therefore lighter and paired with the auto box will probably feel quicker just having to press and go.

Phil

['daiking']

Are they available yet? I thought they weren't due for a while.

[Leon-y-k]

Their available to order from now, deliveries are due 2nd week of September so the dealer told me.

It's already in the brochure, 9500 ish for an ASG SE

[BossFox]

Their available to order from now, deliveries are due 2nd week of September so the dealer told me.

It's already in the brochure, 9500 ish for an ASG SE

Yes, they have been in the brochure all the time.

You could order one, but it wouldn't get build until they actually started to make them. Which I believe is around late August.

['daiking']

Their available to order from now, deliveries are due 2nd week of September so the dealer told me.

It's already in the brochure, 9500 ish for an ASG SE

Good luck with that

[Bassa]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/up/59540/vw-automatic?DCMP=NLC-Newsletters&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

Some info on the above link but what will it be like to drive, that will be the real test - hopefully not jerky ?

[Paul007]

I'll let you know when I've driven one.

[Mike Wrightson]

He doesn't need the heated seats, or PID, but it's a shame that the 75bhp is only available on the Elegance spec, will it be a big difference coming from an 80bhp 1.4 petrol, down to a 1.0 60bhp Citigo?

Not as much difference as you might think as the Citigo is 200KG lighter than the Fabia.

[SMART EXAMINER]

The ASG box will be just like the one in the Smart i am sure. The lever and layout are just the same in the pics. I can tell you the auto change is perfectly ok in the Smart as long as you do not gun it everywhere. If you take it nice and easy the changes are fine.

The box does not have creep like a true auto,but the Smart has hill hold assist,which keeps the brake on for 2 seconds after you move your foot from the brake to prevent roll back. It also locks the box when you park and select Reverse the same as putting it in Park in a true auto.Not sure if the Citygo will have these features,but i would have thought it should.

[Photoemt]

My wife has A Mitsubishi Colt which is basicaly the same car as the Smart Four, it has a similar set up of the automatic gearbox and is just as Smart Examiner says "alright if you don't gun it". Just don't expect it to be as smooth as a DSG or a conventional automatic.

[Tech1e]

The auto box is a manual box, same clutch, same casing. All it has are a group of electric solenoids that replicate driver inputs.

[Phil-E]

The auto box is a manual box, same clutch, same casing. All it has are a group of electric solenoids that replicate driver inputs.

I thought that was the case from the bits and pieces of info around.

Very clever of them to use the same physical gearbox for both the manual and auto.

Wonder how quickly it can operate the clutch and gear shift. That will be key to how smooth it feels.

Phil

[Tech1e]

Something I was wondering tbh.

Might be the deciding factor if we get one or not.

[malcster]

Similar to the easytronic in Vauxhall

Terrible gear change when giving it some beans

Fairly smooth when cruising

But Lurches under heavy load

Solenoid used to fail around 40-50k mileage

[oldstan]

My local dealer expects ASG cars to be with him (for demo, initially, I would guess ) in September. Will certainly give one a go but don't know what to expect having got used to a DSG, which I find to be excellent.

With my Hyundai auto the warranty covers the whole transmission for the full 5 yrs. The Yeti DSG transmission is presumably covered similarly for 3 yrs. But will the ASG be the same as it has a clutch....which is normally considered a consumable.

Hyundai sometimes deny responsibility for manual clutch issues (and blame the user for wear and tear) despite it being well acknowledged that Hyundai transmissions (mainly clutches) have been the topic of conversation for several years. But it is also true that many Hyundai clutches have been replaced under warranty. It has seemed to depend on the dealer, largely, and also how loudly and persistently the user complains to Hyundai Customer Service.

Edited 18 August, 2012 by oldstan

[Ootohere]

It is an Automatic gearbox.

Forget 'clutch', single clutch, automated manuals, double clutch, robotised auto, etc.etc

its an Automatic and will be covered by the Warranty. No 'clutches should need changing.

Now if they can get them working well enough, which is obviously the delay.

Its happened before & even in the last couple of years with Alfas, Fiats, Pug, Citroen, Toyota etc even Ford..

They have great plans and then can not get the box quite right or find its having problems.

Some of their sorted boxes still turn out to be pretty rubbish.

They (VAG) will not release them untill they are right, then the warranty will be there.

Should do what it says on the tin.

Just worth driving one to see its the kind you like to drive with.

I would not order without driving it first to see how it is.

george

[oldstan]

They (VAG) will not release them untill they are right, then the warranty will be there.

As a matter of interest, and with no contentious intention...would you have said exactly the same in the case of, say, Hyundai, for example?.....i.e. They (Hyundai) will not release them until they are right, then the warranty will be there.

Having got one and had a previous one, I, and a good few others, have had first hand experience of expecting them to get it right before release and then finding out how well they respond to some warranty issues.....hence the question.

So when you say Should do what it says on the tin....I see the "should" as being somewhat pertinent for me, as in practice a lot of effort went in to getting my own cars to do what the average Joe would expect them to. They've sorted mine now, but it was hard work.

Honda produced the i Shift automated manual and look what a disappointment that was....not very many owners fell in love with it and the dealers I know certainly didn't as it cost them sales....but you would have thought that Honda would have 'not release(d) them until they are right, then the warranty will be there'. But they did! I've had an automatic Jazz too, by the way, and their service locally was superb - just as the service from my local Skoda dealer is also...and the local Hyundai garage is just as good too but the warranty is overseen, not by the garage, but by the Hyundai appointed organization that runs Hyundai's Customer Service for them (which in their case happens to be the RAC).

Forget 'clutch', single clutch, automated manuals, double clutch, robotised auto, etc.etc

its an Automatic and will be covered by the Warranty. No 'clutches should need changing.

Well, it is...and it isn't an automatic.....The auto box is a manual box, same clutch, same casing. All it has are a group of electric solenoids that replicate driver inputs.

But, you're right, I would fully expect the whole transmission to be covered My present Hyundai is fully auto, my previous one was fully manual. Having had the above spelled out it was just something that crossed my mind - especially, as you can see, with the benefit of first hand experience of clutches and warranties in cars owned by myself.

[Ootohere]

To me its an Automatic if it has 2 pedals and i can drive it with my 'Automatic only' licence.

I have had Early Citroens & a Porsche that were Auto Clutches but also 2 pedals.

& i have had Manuals with a Clutch pedal and an 'Autoclutch' conversion, & i am allowed to drive these.

The reason i worded it the way i did,

is because i have driven only automatics since 1977 after loosing a leg,

& i worked in the car trade, bought and sold Automatics and have driven most.

I loved Ford boxes, my mk2 Cortina Deluxe with column change,1000cc Mini Automatics that Motabilty sold at 3 years old were great. Granadas, Scorpios,

even my Daf-Volvo's, Volvo 343, Fiat Speedgear (wonderful and ahead of its time IMO),

iQ CVT & many others including DSG.

I had a Renault 21 Estate Automatic, what a nightmare to find which Solenoid was the faulty one.

Once all 5 were replaced. it was brilliant. (for a while.)

My Ford Transit Durashift, was a MHR, MWB Ford Demonstrator.

Ford did a recall on all the Dealers Demonstrators & scrapped them,

& the Revised model with revised Durashift Gearbox was sold to customers.

(It was the Actuator that was changed for a totally different one on the models that were launched)

The one i bought slipped through, the Dealer sold it Early to a Customer,

and it was sold to a disabled woman who had hand controls fitted & Windows etc.

She took it every month to Poland to go Husky racing with her Race Sled and dogs.

She spent £1700 trying to get the fault fixed on the box, and Ford did not help or tell the truth..

Neither did the Dealership.

She Sold it to me very cheap, declared & the fault ,

i thought i could get it fixed easy enough.

it was just her Hand Controls activating and blowing rear bulbs and the box going into limp mode. 'I thought!'

I used it with manual changes, then the Actuator went for good..

Ford wanted £2000 +vat for one. Borg Warner supplied one for £1500 inclusing vat, bill was £2200 all in..

Borgwarner sent the Disc that was required by the garage to install and fix the Actuator.

FORD still are 'Durashift Fault 3 monkeys.

'See no, hear no, say no!!!'

It went wrong again, and i sold the van with the fault 'advertised'. I could have sold it over and over again due to the demand for Durashift Transits.

A guy bought it, found a new Gearbox in a crate for £800 at a Ford Dealers, fitted with my new Actuator working just fine & he still drives it 3 years on.

He got a proper bargain.

I Ordered a new build Euro 4 Peugeot Bipper 1.4 diesel to be a 'keeper', before the Euro 5 engines were about to come out,

they were to be 1.3 lt with Stop/start once Euro 5 & i did not want one of them..

they canceled the builds for ages and i could only get a new Fiat Qubo,

with the Engine & Box that Peugeot were about to fit.

it was a disaster. I then got a Bipper that was now available. It was a DPF & autobox disaster.

I wanted a Alfa Romeo Mito with TCT as they were launched in 2010.

Put the order in, and waited and waited. The boxes would be good i thought,

there builds were put back and put back. Canceled the order.

Driven one since and liked it.

Driven Autoboxes that get slagged, Hondas, Mitsibishu's etc etc.

& liked them. I like all the Jazz boxes in different ways.

Never really used an autobox that i did not get used to, other than a couple of Smarts that are the Spawn of the Devil IMO.

Manufactures continue to get it wrong, but at least the Customer is protected these days.

The Internet means that Manufacturers are found out if they sell a Lemon.

Where i live is 'Charles Butler Automatic Transmission specialist'.

Jeff Butler sees about every Automatic type that is liable to have faults.

He has 30 years experience plus and his father before him.

Anything can have a fault, some are much more trouble than others. But its often User abuse or bad Maintenance,

Wrong Fluids added.

or not reading the 'Owners Manual'.

george

[oldstan]

"The ASG box will be just like the one in the Smart i am sure. The lever and layout are just the same in the pics. I can tell you the auto change is perfectly ok in the Smart as long as you do not gun it everywhere. If you take it nice and easy the changes are fine".

"My wife has A Mitsubishi Colt which is basicaly the same car as the Smart Four, it has a similar set up of the automatic gearbox and is just as Smart Examiner says "alright if you don't gun it". Just don't expect it to be as smooth as a DSG or a conventional automatic".

Thank you for your detailed run down of your experiences with auto boxes, SK4GW. "Never really used an autobox that I did not get used to, other than a couple of Smarts that are the Spawn of the Devil IMO."

We'll have to wait for the arrival of the thing in the flesh to be sure......but I don't imagine you'll have liked the above mention of it being akin to the Mitsubishi box given your previous experience.

We'll just agree to disagree about the Honda i Shift.....I didn't like it at all - but found the CVT fine. The current 4 speed Torque Converter box in the Hyundai is OK but saps power (obviously) and hits mpg quite a lot (obviously). The DSG box in the Yeti seems a good compromise to me hence wondering whether a Fabia DSG with a good discount (easy enough to find at the moment) would be a similarly priced alternative to a Citigo??

We'll see.

PS. You forgot to say what you felt about my question...."As a matter of interest, and with no contentious intention...would you have said exactly the same in the case of, say, Hyundai, for example?.....i.e. They (Hyundai) will not release them until they are right, then the warranty will be there". Would be interested to know what you thought about that. Thanks.

[Ootohere]

I ran for a year a, Hyundia i30 tdi auto.

* Got it in October, waited till March till they replaced the Corroding Alloys,

They were showing bubbles by Novermber , one month after starting to drive it,

Was good i waited till March to get the wheels replaced & by then made them replace the Discs that looked 3 years old with rust and the windscreen that was chipping on the tint on the exterior!!*

it was a wonderful car except in the snow, which meant it was not used that much that winter.

So it was gone by the following October just as the Alloys started to bubble again.

THey never got the Assisted brake system quite right with those first cars,

& you could not disable it fully, and it was necessary to reverse it to get it to drive on a poor traction situation on ECO tyres, you could not move forward in a straight line in a itsy bit of snow or ice..

(not a good thing in Scotland in Winter,

difficult if you made the mistake of reversing into a parking place and when you came out it had snowed or frozen over nights, or even while in shopping.)

Plus point in normal use,

If you switched on the Air Conditioning not only did the Revs change with the alternator, the whole gearbox mode changed.

It was like going into a Sport Mode.

When giving it beans say on a Overtaking lane and a BMW was up your chuff, you could press the A/C and gain so much more go.

A Design fault i would think, but a bit like removing a certain fuse, and totally changing the cars performance.

The thing about cars, vans etc & manufactures is, they can do all the testing they want around the world,

hot, cold, wet, humid,

untill a car is used by customers in numbers you dont know how it will be with private owners.

You do not know how a year old car will perform in the UK untill they have been in the UK for a year.

Same at 3 years old, 5 years old etc.

They dont know how the Service Intervals and annual checks will be untill they are tried and tested.

You do expect manufacturers to get things right, but they often do not.

Toyotas an example of a Manufacturer that is getting it wrong a bit too often.

Skoda/VAG has been getting wrong a bit too often and had better get these Citigo/Mii/Up!'s right.

They have quite a few Warranty issues running with some other models right now.

5 & 7 year warranties do start to give you some peace of mind,

it does not mean that something that is mechanical can not go wrong.

I like Kia's, but i did buy a bad one.

Still like Kia's tho.

george

[sharkrider]

we have a similar gearbox (single cluch automated manual) in the fiat ambulances... as others have said (havent read the huge posts above) they are ok driven gently, but a pain when trying to go fast, the delay between gear changes seems huge....

[Skoda-Man]

I suggest that when talking about this gearbox, you really must drive it before buying. Especially if you have owned normal automatics or dsg-cars in the past. It`s not that good, not by a long shot. But it`s better than a manual box. Have tried it with opel and toyota, didn`t like it.

Edited 23 August, 2012 by Skoda-Man

[oldstan]

I suggest that when talking about this gearbox, you really must drive it before buiying. Especially if you have owned normal automatics or dsg-cars in the past. It`s not that good, not by a long shot. But it`s better than a manual box. Have tried it with opel and toyota, didn`t like it.

As someone who would only buy an automatic in future, I'm interested in what you say. Trouble is, I'm not sure how anyone knows what this particular box is like if it's not available yet. Is this the same box as in the Opel and Toyota?

[malcster]

The gearbox is a vw group manual gearbox

It has solenoids that makes shifting automatic