Is my turbo definately kaput?

[milky-vRS]

Hi all. I'm new to Briskoda but i really need peoples advice:

I have a Fabia vRS (2004) and i have recently noticed im getting alot of oil spots on the rear end of the car and it was starting to be a bit heavier on fuel than it normally would be.

At the beginning of this year, my radiator was leaking and upon changing that, i noticed that 2 of my boost pipes where coming apart under load. Got those sorted (using cable ties.....actually worked perfectly!! so didn't have any boost leak and back to running lovely.

Now after noticing the oil spots all over the boot of the car, i had a look underneath and found i also had oil dropping from the intercooler infront of the offside wheelarch. Have also noticed that the EGR valve is leaking oil.

Do you reckon upon sealing the boost pipes up with cable ties it may have caused the turbo to be overboosting beyond it's capability and blown the seals on the turbo??

It is still boosting and accelerating as it normally does so is it the turbo or something else??

If anyone can shed some light on what is happening and how to resolve the issues, it'll be greatly appreciated!

Many Thanks,

Ryan.

[Benjiman]

Don't reckon you're overboosting due to sealing it up proper..

You'd know if the turbo was kerput - it'd be whining like a b1tch on heat, & have no power.

[trundlenut]

The ecu would cut in and drop the car into limp mode before the boost got too high (in theory anyway)

[milky-vRS]

But i have been told that it would still be boosting even if the seals had gone but will deteriorate VERY quickly.

How do you think the oil is getting into the boost pipes and intercooler??

[Benjiman]

How do you think the oil is getting into the boost pipes and intercooler??

Through the sh!tty design that is the Crank Case Breather - puts oily air straight into clean air feed..

[trundlenut]

Through the sh!tty design that is the Crank Case Breather - puts oily air straight into clean air feed..

+1

It builds up in the intercooler because of the drop in pressure and velocity. Also when the oily air meets the sooty air from the EGR it makes the tarry gunge the builds in the EGR and inlet manifold.

[milky-vRS]

so you dont think my turbo is f***ed?? Are the oil spots on the back of the car from where its dropping out of the intercooler and it needs a new seal?? or new intercooler??

I really dont want to have to fork out for a new turbo to find that it wasnt the source of the problem in the first place.

[trundlenut]

Is the car using any oil? If the seals were going/gone then the oil used to lubricate the turbo gets into the engine and is burnt. Apparently failing turbos can absolutely guzzle oil.

[milky-vRS]

i dont want to drive it to find out if i can help it......do you think thats what i should do?? check the oil level, drive for 20 mins or so, let it cool and check it again??

[trundlenut]

Does it use oil normally? If not check it and if it less than max worry a bit, if it's on max drive it around a bit and check again.

[stuart vrs]

milky-vrs,

when i bought my car i has to clean out oily gunk from egr and intercooler pipework,

i've cleaned out the pipework right down to the intercooler, my turbo sounds fine and i've not lost any power, i'm trying to find out why this is happening for piece of mind, anybody out know why this is happening, car has got 124k on the speedo.

[Robbie 88]

my car is doing exatly the same thing. only difference is its mega smokey on start up when cold. start it and watch a cloud of bright blue smoke passes the windows for about 10 seconds. mechanis says that the valve guides could be worn and the stem seals are allowing oil to pass through into the cylinders. the car has 145k on the clock

[milky-vRS]

Robbie 88,

Mine isnt that bad, just a little smoke on start up but passes after a second or two. I ran it to work this morning after checking the oil. It wasnt low, so going to check it once cooled down.

stuart vrs,

What did you use to clean out the pipework and the intercooler?? As if i find out its not my turbo, then im going to have to clean everything out!!

Benjiman,

Where abouts on the crank case will i be able to locate the breather pipe and how would i go about accessing it??

Many thanks guys!

[Jonny5ive]

from what I've read above I would be doing the following:

1. Clean out EGR valve

2. Clean out pipework from EGR to intercooler and the intercooler itself

3. Replace all of the poor design VAG boost pipework clips with new ones

3a. If you have the funds replace the pipework too as the VAG couplings do wear over time.

4. Execute the CCV Elephant Hose mod. (I'll post info on this when I'm on a PC)

5. Dependant on your engine type, disable/delete the EGR valve.

IMHO it doesn't sound as if your turbo is failing and I suspect the oil spots are related to the gunked up EGR/boost pipes/intercooler.

FYI I had to replace my radiator earlier this year 2003/03 Fab vRS

[eric87]

What is the elephant hose mod?

[Jonny5ive]

What is the elephant hose mod?

CCV (Crank Case Vent) Elephant Hose (assume so called as it is similar to an elephants trunk?)

Here it is in pictoral format:

The two points circled are usually joined by a pipe, meaning that the mucky oily air from the crank case is sent back into the intake side before the EGR valve. (The shiny alloy part labelled TRD in the pic is an EGR delete pipe but this is where the EGR valve is normally located)

The CCV/Elephant Hose mod essentially stops the recirculation of the crank case air into the intake. In the picture above you can see the 19mm heater hose attached to the top of the crank case, it goes over the back of the block, follows the exhaust down and terminates to atmosphere underneath the car. Some folk argue that you should fit a catch can, but that's upto personal preference.

The corresponding hole (pre-EGR) can be clocked with a bung from the plumbing department at B&Q (other hardware stores are available )

Couple that with the soot thrown in by the EGR and it gets very sticky and messy especially on older models with higher mileage.

Here is a pic of the inside of my EGR valve after removal. (note: I had been running the CCV mod for a while before deleting the EGR hence it's not "gunky and sticky" with oil, more sooty)

The one below (courtesy of google) shows how bad they can get.

[eric87]

so I just simply disconnect the hose from pre EGR and feed it down towards the exhaust? Or do I need a longer hose so it actually goes down further? do you know what size bung I'd need?

Also are there any adverse effects from this? I'm still yet to take my EGR and IC pipes leading to IC off to inspect and/or clean out.

[Jonny5ive]

so I just simply disconnect the hose from pre EGR and feed it down towards the exhaust? Or do I need a longer hose so it actually goes down further? do you know what size bung I'd need?

Also are there any adverse effects from this? I'm still yet to take my EGR and IC pipes leading to IC off to inspect and/or clean out.

Yes. Disconnect hose and you'll need a longer hose as the current one is only about 6". IIRC 19mm heater hose is what I used and a jubilee clip.

Here you go http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EPDM-SAEJ20R3-Flexible-Rubber-Car-Heater-Radiator-Coolant-Hose-Engine-Water-Pipe-/170899154258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item27ca622552

Fed it over the back of the block and used some cable ties to secure to some of the exhaust hangers.

I have a machined aluminium bung in mine, but before that was done I think I used the rubber "foot" from the bottom of a walking stick. You'll need something that is not going to get "sucked" in so to speak, so either a tapered bung or more of a "cap"

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15mm-Bottom-Diameter-Solid-Rubber-Bungs-Pk2-Brand-New-/221119202171?

pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item337bbb437b

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-Hose-End-Caps-2-Pack-Blanking-Plug-Bung-Rubber-Finisher-Steel-Braided-/270967905450?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item3f16f21caa

Adverse affects? On cold mornings with a hot engine the vented vapours can cause steam from wherever the pipe terminates. There has been discussion about moisture being drawn back up into the crank case when things cool down. if you're concerned about that, then run a catch can and a breather filter. I'm not so I don't.

HTH

[trundlenut]

On my car I ran the hose into the wing behind the near side headlight, so when it's cold vapour/steam comes out from around the headlight when stationary which looks a bit wrong.

[milky-vRS]

Jonny5ive,

Where abouts did you get your TRD pipe from and where did you have your one piece boost pipe from.

I have discovered that its not my turbo thats the issue, it is the crank case breather ontop of the rocker cover. Took it off last night and it was really clogged up so going to do the same conversion as you to prevent this happening again.

Are there any dangers of removing the EGR valve??

[Jonny5ive]

Jonny5ive,

Where abouts did you get your TRD pipe from and where did you have your one piece boost pipe from.

I have discovered that its not my turbo thats the issue, it is the crank case breather ontop of the rocker cover. Took it off last night and it was really clogged up so going to do the same conversion as you to prevent this happening again.

Are there any dangers of removing the EGR valve??

The EGR delete pipe is an Allard one. TRD (Turner Race Developments) mated it to the Green SAMCO boost pipe for me when they carried out the replacement turbo, clutch and FMIC works in July 2010.

Username Greening now changed to The Bandit was selling several of the SAMCO boost pipes on here a while ago for around £60 in blue I think. He sold me mine as it was one of two he had had made in green.

Risks of removing the EGR? I am not aware of any. Obviously your vehicle would not meet the manufacturers claimed emmisions levels once it is removed. It is also likely to display an engine management light once removed.

This can be 'mapped out' on the ASZ engine variant by most reputable tuners.

HTH

***Links added***

[milky-vRS]

Thanks mate.

Ive just had a thought....the crank case breather is obviously running into the air intake system for a reason and i was wondering whether it may have been designed (although very badly) to maybe put oily air vapours into the manifold to lubricate the bearings on the turbo?? If so, then bypassing the air system and running it into an oil catcher tank (or terminating the pipe elsewhere under the car) may mean the turbo isnt getting sufficiant lubrication??

I may have it totally wrong but I'm trying to work out why it runs back into the system? :think:

If i take the EGR valve off and dont get the car plugged in to overide the engine warning light, will it cause the car to go into limp mode or reduce power??

[Jonny5ive]

Ive just had a thought....the crank case breather is obviously running into the air intake system for a reason and i was wondering whether it may have been designed (although very badly) to maybe put oily air vapours into the manifold to lubricate the bearings on the turbo?? If so, then bypassing the air system and running it into an oil catcher tank (or terminating the pipe elsewhere under the car) may mean the turbo isnt getting sufficiant lubrication??

I may have it totally wrong but I'm trying to work out why it runs back into the system? :think:

Honestly I have no idea. I have run the CCV for about 40k miles with 2 different Turbo's. It was in place when TRD carried out the replacement of my turbo. It makes sense to me that if it was designed for lubricating a turbo they would have re-connected it....?

In fact no, it can not be related to lubricating the turbo as the crank case breather goes back into the intake before the soot joins it from the EGR. There's no way oily soot can be good for lubricating turbo bearings.

If i take the EGR valve off and dont get the car plugged in to overide the engine warning light, will it cause the car to go into limp mode or reduce power??

I don't think so. There is loads of info on here about EGR removal, in fact there is a method whereby you can 'disable' the EGR valve rather than delete it, by removing the end of and plugging two of the vacuum pipes that control the valve itself.

If you want to know whether the Engine Managment Light (EML) causes limp mode (i don't think it does, but is likely to be an MOT fail) you could do the disablement first and if you're happy go for the delete.

Hope that makes sense??

[milky-vRS]

Thats a good point....i have a mate with vag-com so I'll ask his to disable it and see what happens before i go with the delete.

I'm not sure about the first part about the soot from the EGR. I thought the EGR was on a seperate manifold from where the breather pipes joins??

Do you have any idea how the turbo gets sufficient lubrication??

Sorry to keep asking so many questions, Im just wanting to make sure that if i go ahead and do the mods, it won't shorten the turbo life itself.....

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

The turbo is lubricated via a oil feed pipe from the engine to the turbo.