Cylinder 2 coil pack U/S

[xman]

Just my guess - based on past experience

I reckon a faulty spark plug has shed its electrode - happened to me many years ago with a "Bosch" plug - in my case it lodged in the exhaust valve and damaged the valve and seat. But in your case it looks like it might have gone to the cylinder wall and damaged the rings/cylinder wall causing excessive oil use.

Again from experience, the coil paks are very sensitive to over voltage due to excessive spark gap. Because of its dimensions, the insulation is borderline and excessive gaps cause the insulation to break down almost immediately. In your case the gap is tremendous. When a misfire is detected, thefuelling to the cylinder is stopped but I reckon the ECU still keeps the plug firing.

I notice that VAG have now dropped pencil coils from all new designs.

I think you're looking at an engine stripdown and rebuild, maybe even scrap due to cylinder wall damage (are they liners?). THe question is if the pluig is to blame, will VAG stump up (is it manufacturing defect or consequential damage?)

[wills]

Well, just had a call from the garage, SUK want them to replace an oil breather pipe before doing any further diagnosis.

Im not sure this is going to make one scrap of difference but I guess its the process that has to be gone through. Part won't arrive until tomorrow though so in courtesy vehicle tonight.

-Will

[xman]

Noticed this on the oil breather thread....

what mileage are your cars on at present, I was having an oil problem on my first engine up until around 6.5k then it never used a drop, had the engine replaced at 7.5k due to a spark plug failure.

I wonder if this is a similar case?

[wills]

Got the car back yesterday evening with the modded oil breather pipe fitted.

Have got to cover 250 miles and then go back for the dealer to check the oil level. I have been told I am under no circumstances to add oil UNLESS the warning light comes on and then I have to make a note of any that I add.

So, covered 150 miles so far, shall see what happens when I whizz it in on Friday.

-Will

[Ootohere]

Did 'you' dip it when you collected it and see where the oil was on the stick or did the workshop manager show you the level they sent it out at?

Could you please do it this today once the oil is 'up to normal running temperature' & tell us where they have set the oil level?

george

[P1TT8ULL]

Got a pic of the new pipe aswell please dude.

[wills]

George - I didn't dip the oil at the dealer at all, the service manager told me it had been filled correctly according to the specs and I took her word for it. Due to the fact I picked it up late in the afternoon and I was going out with some friends in the evening I got home, parked it up and then went out.

I did check it this evening. I have covered 156 miles since picking it up from the dealer. I checked the oil at an indicated 83*C on the dash. I then waited 3 mins before dipping. At the moment the oil is sitting exactly at the top of the hatched area on the dipstick. IF the car was filled as per the manual the oil should be 3/4mm higher up the stick at the top of the smooth area. I shall check with them at the dealer tomorrow.

The modified breather pipe...

Annoyingly I can't find my older pics of the engine otherwise I would compare a before and after pic. The pic above is what was taken tonight.

Anyone got a before pic??

-Will

[Ootohere]

Your oil level sounds to be correct now.

The oil should be at the top 1/4 of the hatch 'or at the top of the hatch',

or just onto the smooth after the oil has been up to running temperature.

(Mine just stays at that mark (place) and has now for 1500 miles)

not above,

*Thats mine anyway with 3.6 litres in and not using oil.*

george

Standard 2010 engine that was rebuilt by Skoda 12 months (10,000 miles) ago.

*Crap dip stick & owners manual discription.*

[wills]

hmmm, the pic I've posted looks exactly lik the pics you have posted George. The part I have posted in the pic is definitely new when you look at it up close so not sure what to think, maybe there are internal differences on the pipe??

I shall ask later when I pop into Skoda for them to check things over.

-Will

[Ootohere]

Or maybe mine got the 'Pipe Fix', 12 months ago (When it got new rings, the correct fix.)

&

the 'Pipe Fix' has proved to work, and has now been rolled out as the 'New Fix'.

*Personally i think they are grasping at 'the cheapest straws', when they know which engines need rebuilt.*

Let us know what they say.

george

EDIT,

The engine in the picture is in a vRS, First Reg UK July 2010,

Warranty rebuilt Oct 2011

[P1TT8ULL]

That engine looks same as my 11 plate Vrs.

[wills]

ok, so i went to the dealers yesterday and got my oil level checked. I had covered almost bang on 200 miles by this point.

The oil was exactly where it was when it was topped up apparently - at the top of the chequered area. This is where the mechanic topped it up to and it appeared as though it had used none. He told me to keep an eye on it and see how it goes with the recommendation that if it uses more than 1 litre in 750 miles then they would need it back.

Apparently, according to the tech, in cases like this it's fit modded breather pipe first and then if that doesn't work its on to major engine work/new engine. He said when he fitted the breather pipe it didn't look any different to the previous one however, he didnt know whether there were any internal differences though.

I left feeling a little happier and thinking maybe, just maybe it was something as simple as this pipe - how wrong could I be?!

Went out in the car this afternoon and noticed every now and again a lovely puff/haze of blue smoke behind me. By the time I had got back I had only covered about 10 miles, meaning around 20 miles covered in total since dealer checked oil. As I had seen the puffs of smoke I lifted the bonnet and checked - oil at 87*C and 3 mins after stopping - this is what I found...

...level down by a quarter in just 20 miles. I have informed the dealer and left a message for the service department to contact me on Monday - not particularly happy right now!!

-Will

[Mosquito]

Blue smoke out of the exhaust does not sound good. But, I would give it at least 15 minutes before checking the oil after a run, won't all have drained into the sump in 3 minutes. I doubt it could have used that much in 20 miles,even if it's a bit of an oil burner. Part number for the new breather is 03C 103 474 AD by the way - should be on it somewhere.

[Ootohere]

**As a favour please, can you dip that again tomorrow or when ever when stone cold and see where the level is, it should be up about the orange marker, interested to know thanks.* A Picture again would be good..

Thats really down too much if they had in 3.6 litres and at the top of the hatch..

Mine does not go down to that in 1000 miles of being driven mostly sportingly.

From having 3.6 litres of oil in & checked and at the top of the hatch.

*It is not wait 15 minutes to check the dip stick for the oil level.*

As the book says.

"One should therefore check the oil level at regular intervals, preferably every time after the fuel tank is filled or after driving for long stretches.

We recommend maintaining the oil level within range 'A' if the engine is operating at high loads, for example during a lengthy motorway trip

DURING THE SUMMER MONTHS, TOWING OR NEGTIATING A HIGH MOUNTAIN PASS, BUT NOT ABOVE THIS."

the procedure for testing is clearly in the book in bad translation from CZ,

& the book covers all models really and is a PITH take . IMHO.

Your engines are to be checked 'warm' after being up to normal running temperature.

Normal running temperature for the oil is 88 degrees celcius to around 92 degrees celcius.

"Open the bonnet......

Wait a few minutes and pull out the dip stick.

..............................."

Your life is not supposed to be disrupted by waiting 15 minutes and returning to your vehicle etc.

(it would be bad enough if you put in fuel, paid, came out, dipped your oil, found it low and needed to go back in and buy bl00dy expensive filling station oil,

you should not need to go and have a meal or a sh1te and then check the oil.)

Just best play their game & get a courtesy car & get them to fix the engine. JMO

george

VW Polo Owners Manual posted in a Thread here Back in April 12th 2012,

note different wording than in the Skoda Fabia Owners Manual.

[Mosquito]

Just how long would you suggest waiting before checking the oil level George ??.

From the (better worded) Polo handbook you quote - "switch off the engine and wait a few minutes for the engine oil to flow back into the sump."

I would suggest that three minutes is not enough. Getting oil back into the sump is more important to an accurate reading than the small difference in temperature by waiting a few more minutes

[Ootohere]

I can not tell others what a 'few minutes mean'.

I can tell you that in 15 minutes at about 16 degrees ambient the oil at 88 degrees celcius will be back down to 50 degrees or lower.

the stick nows show higher at 50 degrees celcius, as it does at 'Cold oil.'

Almost all the cooler oil will be back in the sump.

What does your oil level show after being stopped 15 minutes?

With the correct amount of oil in my engine and up to 88 degrees and stopped for 3 to 5 minutes my stick shows higher than 'wills',

& does every time i check.

*I am looking for a consistant level by checking the same way and waiting the same time.*

Only each person would know what their 'few minutes' are.

Thats good enough for me.

15 minutes later i will be back in the car driving and would be none the wiser

or maybe no place near the car.

(i check my oil every long trip actually and used none since the engine was passed 8000 miles, had another change at 10,000 miles, i did a properly done weigh and measure and filter change..)

If you check yours after 15 minutes that is good.

'will' can maybe tell us his Oil level tomorrow when Stone Cold.!

george

[wills]

Just to say - when I drove into the dealers for them to re-check the oil level yesterday, I arrived and switched off the engine and the tech came out and checked it immediately, was maybe a max of 2 mins before it was checked.

-Will

[wills]

ok, just to keep this updated - after the last message I went back to the dealer on the Monday and the tech immediately arranged for me to be booked in for today (Monday 15th). They are going to do the oil test procedure that I have read about on here.

They will drain the oil and leave the plug off to make sure it fully drains, turn the engine over a couple of times to make sure they have it all out and will then refill with a specified amount that has been checked and weighed from a clean container. I then have to cover 180 miles and it will then be checked by draining it all out again, turning over twice and then measuring/weighing the amount left.

Hopefully this will then reveal that my engine needs some more love and attention from Skoda!

Am in an Octavia vRS today (diesel version though) and I must say, not too bad - heated seats could have a bit more oomph about them though!

-Will

Edited 15 October, 2012 by wills

[JerryT]

Can some one tell me which cylinder is number three please? I am assuming it is the third one down from the pulley/timing chain i.e. nearest the 'near side' of the car. If so, then the plug removed from this cylinder Friday night is exactly the same as that shown in Wills pictures although it was still intact. However, even after moving this plug and coil pack to number four (and vice versa for those originally in number four) the misfire was still recorded in number three. Note before doing this all fault codes were cleared.

Wills, sorry if i missed it but what was done to rectify the misfire?

Lucky you in the Octy vRS, all i got was a Pug 308 diseasel!

[wills]

ok, got car back, got to cover 180 miles now!

Cylinder 3 is the 3rd one from the right of the oil cap/timing chain end.

I don't really know what to say about your situation but if you read my thread I started getting trouble with engine light, the 3rd coil pack was replaced. Then I started having trouble with Cyl 1. I had this coil pack replaced along with all plugs and this temporarily fixed the fault.

If you read this entire thread you will see the history of whats been happening with my vehicle.

Its got high oil usuage. The problem hasn't been truly fixed yet, its just had new plugs and two new coils which has temporarily fixed the issues of misfiring. I think I have problems with my piston rings which has caused all of the above trouble and so I am now in the process of going through SUK's troubleshooting process.

The solution to my woes is an engine rebuild I believe but we shall see what happens at the end of this week when I return on Friday to have my oil usuage measured!

-Will

[Ootohere]

Are they not following the procedure that came from the post in April?

Or is that already done?

Be a fine trial as long as it gets enough real world use in the 180 miles i would think.

george

Readable on page 1 of this thread.

[JerryT]

Hi Will

Heard back from the garage late this afternoon, to be told that there is fresh oil in number 3 (fresh because it was only serviced on Friday) and that they now have to approach SUK as to next steps.

Best of luck with the 180 miles, just treat it as normal. When i went through the same process earlier in the year I covered about 350 miles between oil drains which resulted in an oil loss of 482 mls per 600 miles. As such within tolerance. Have been keeping a track of oil consumption since and I recommend everyone to do this if they believe they have a problem just so they can document it to whoever rather than saying it has used about x over y miles. Mine ironically has been getting better using a litre in the last 2200 miles.

Hope yours turns out to your satisfaction.

Jerry

[wills]

Just come back from the garage...

The car used 0.15kg (150 grams) of oil is just over 189.7 miles (just over because I didn't reset the counter the moment I left on Monday).

This is OUTSIDE of SUK's tolerance and a new engine is being ordered for me. The work will commence on the 5th November.

I guess I am finally happy with the result but it was a bit of a marathon getting to this point, that, plus the fact I have never owned a car that has needed a new engine within 30,000 miles!

I asked what exactly a new engine meant and it would seem it means a new short engine. So existing ancillaries plus head and assorted bits will be re-used. I will be interested to see the state of the 3rd pot when it is pulled apart as I would like to know whether that spark plug really was burnt away or whether it has damaged the cylinder walls or head or anything else for that matter.

Will keep this thread updated as things pan out.

To everyone who is having oil problems just keep an eye on it and start recording data, as in, how often you are topping it up, how many miles between fills, any smoke coming from the exhaust under acceleration, misfiring etc. It would appear that this all really helps in getting things sorted, that along with being very persistent at the dealer!

-Will

[philhoward]

I'm really hoping mine doesn't get to the "issue" levels of usage - as I normally do 600+miles a week (sometimes twice that) if I need a litre of oil a week then I'll be barking at Skoda. Currently just over a litre a month..no, hang on, i've bought 2 litres, plus the one with the car, plus one I had left over from the Scirocco...so its already used a sumpfull...Will have to start keeping a closer eye on it.

As for this "only check when up to temp" - seems crackers when the low oil light comes on from cold start. OK - it has insufficient oil but how much to put in? Sorry engine, I know you don't have enough oil but I need to run you up to temp before I know how much oil you need - what a cocking farce!

[Ootohere]

I see it different.

If you are doing 600 miles plus a week that must be at least 1 petrol station fill up,

& a chance to check the oil at normal running temperature.

600 miles is about 12 hours driving,

so 5 minutes twice a week to dip oil or only once a week if you have a non oil user. you know that after the first few weeks or a few thousand miles.

If you have an oil user and you are using the car hard, it would be on my mind to be aware of the oil level regularly or daily.

It would only be low of oil on a cold start up if you had not checked the oil when leaving it after a run & not checking it.

Owners Hand Book is written to advise you to check the oil.

Hardly any excuse as a high mileage user to not check the Oil at least once a week.

& tyre pressures etc.

JMO.

If it was low when cold, you can be pretty sure you will not do wrong by putting in .5 or 1 litre & getting the car up to normal temperature and then checking it after 10 miles or so.

Then top it to the correct level.

(first time you ever have a low oil warning light, you surely know from then to be careful & find out how much oil is required to run the correct amount of oil.)

Running it while low for 10 miles untill hot & then topping up hardly seems like a good plan. JMO.

Running with a low level of oil at motorway speeds and over long runs or high load is almost guaranteed to have that oil that is in there, depleting rather quickly if run low at high temperatures..

1390 cc twin charger with 178bhp as standard and the possibilty of national speed limits and 50 mpg.

It does not seem too much trouble to watch the oil and use a quality oil.

Cheap performance motoring IMO.

george