Cylinder 2 coil pack U/S

[wills]

Hi everyone, me again. Just when I thought all was well with the world having got my A/C sorted out a new problem comes along, and, this time I reckon it's pretty serious so thought I would post about it, see if anyone else has similar experience?

I went away early on Sunday morning to go and visit some relatives. They live in Norfolk so its around a 120 mile trip there. I left at around 6am and all seemed well with the world right up until around 60 miles into the journey I started feeling the car begin to 'miss'. Didn't really think anything of it, maybe just one of those things and on I carried. About 5 miles further down the road things took a turn for the worse. Anything more than a feather touch on the throttle was giving really bad misfires - really shaking the car with the engine warning light flashing. I decided bad things were probably happening and my engine was definitely suffering so planned to stop at the next garage which was a few mins away. I was on a dual carriageway so too dangerous to stop immediately.

As I got to the garage, another round a misfiring and this time the EPC and engine warning light came on - engine now running like a bag of spanners on 3 cylinders. Turned off vehicle, got out, did a basic check over and couldn't see anything obvious, no loose connections anything like that so tried restarting the car. Car restarted fine, all lights off and seemed all ok, revved fine with no apparent trouble.

Got back on the road and again, missing under anything more than light acceleration, however, this time the engine warning light came on and stayed on. I decided that as I was over half way to Norfolk I wasn't going to stop so nursed the vehicle all the way to my families house and parked it up. We had a day planned so I decided I'd give Skoda Assist a ring when I got back in.

Rang assistance - no patrols available in the area at that time on a Sunday evening, they sent a contractor instead who just had a flat bed lorry and no diagnostic equipment or spare parts so decided to leave the vehicle where it was and arrange for recovery on Monday evening.

Patrol came along on Monday evening, plugged in his machine and diagnosed a coil pack fault on cylinder 2. As it's a common problem item (apparently) he replaced the coil pack with a brand new genuine one he had on his van. He cleared the fault and all seemed well. He then decided to check the fluid levels as part of his call out and he discovered that the oil was right down at the bottom of the dipstick (not off it but at the bottom)! Now, I ALWAYS check my oil before any long journey and on Saturday night I had topped the oil up to just below the full mark on the dipstick. I told him this and he said there wasn't really anything else he could check. He topped up the oil back to the max and gave me the rest of the bottle in case I had problems.

I set off home and everything seemed great. About 10 mins from home on the dual carriageway the car seemed to loose power - came off a roundabout and it really began to struggle to get anything past 60mph. I immediately lifted off the accelerator and tried to accelerate again but nothing. Then, suddenly, engine warning light starts flashing and EPC light comes on. Car is in some sort of restricted power mode and I've got nothing at all. I am luckily right by a garage so coast off into it. Engine running like its a cylinder down again. I turn off, restart and try going again, exact same problem but this time the car is struggling for anything past 40mph. Luckily with it being the dead of night by this point nothing was really about so I made it to the next exit and then stopped in a small side road - by this point the car was really juddering when trying to pull away.

Phoned Skoda Assist again, told them the situation. Get a call back a few mins later, no patrol men in the area AGAIN grrrr. They said they would send a flat bed and get me home. Truck arrives and tries getting me to start engine - all is well with the thing again!

He said to drive it home and he would follow which I did. Anything more than light throttle would give random missing/misfires though.

So, the car is now sat outside awaiting a patrol man tomorrow.

I think the thing i'm most worried about is the oil usage really, I am wondering whether it's something more serious than a coil pack, I really don't know though. I know it's under warranty but its beginning to naff me off a bit now - in the time ive owned it I've have had a broken DRL, flaking Skoda badges, bearing go in the A/C compressor, my rattley DSG box and now this, hmmmmm, not good!

-Will

[Evil Miyagi]

Have a look at my posts, particularly (I Give Up)... Request a VW tech from Skoda Assistance and ask June to check the spark plugs... Mine had burnt the tip off the spark plug and was doing exactly the same as yours...

Mine was away for two weeks :(

edit- http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/247993-i-give-up-update-2nd-update/

EM

[Ootohere]

?? When you topped the oil up on Saturday Night to

'just below the full mark on the dipstick', was that when the oil was cold?

If it was,

then you set off without there being enough oil in the engine.

Cold, the oil shows at the Orange marker when it has 3.6 litres in..

If it was were you say when cold, you were easily 1 litre of oil short.

** You said in the 'Broken A/C thread that your vRS had done 32,000 miles, so i take it you do check and top up your oil only when hot and know the correct level.

? Have you had 'High Oil useage problems in the past, or is this the first time?

&

it is since they had the car in for the A/C repairs.

george

[newbie69]

?? When you topped the oil up on Saturday Night to

'just below the full mark on the dipstick', was that when the oil was cold?

If it was,

then you set off without there being enough oil in the engine.

Cold, the oil shows at the Orange marker when it has 3.6 litres in..

If it was were you say when cold, you were easily 1 litre of oil short.

george

Confused... I agree on "checking when at operating temps", but how can the oil be less than full If you top it up when cold? I thought the "don't check when cold instructions" had to do with protection from overfilling, not the other way around, no?

[Ootohere]

It is just is the way it is.

(we talked through this in threads on here so many times before)

Please,

Go out now and dip your oil cold and see where it is on the stick.

?? Can you tell us where the oil is on your dipstick?

Drive 10 miles, get the oil above 80 degrees celcius, stop on the level, wait 4 minutes & dip it,

?Where is the oil on the stick?

It was not me that designed the system or the stupid dip stick.

george

[arnold]

Yet someone else with oil issues. Mine went in to have the oil weighed for the consumption test last week but my dealer had no facility for doing so. This was a 90 mile trip for nothing and rearranged for a weeks time when i can get back. Mines 7 litres in 9000 and skoda uk state i have to do the test to see if the engine is using too much oil. Clearly 7 litres is too much oil after every vehicle i have ever owned has never needed a drop between services.If these engines use a stupid amount of oil then this should be pointed out at point of sale. I certainly would have walked away if it had. If mine is not sorted soon then i will be contacting trading standards and watchdog and i suggest others should and they would more than likely run this then skoda might admit they have issues.

[newbie69]

It is just is the way it is.

(we talked through this in threads on here so many times before)

Please,

Go out now and dip your oil cold and see where it is on the stick.

?? Can you tell us where the oil is on your dipstick?

Drive 10 miles, get the oil above 80 degrees celcius, stop on the level, wait 4 minutes & dip it,

?Where is the oil on the stick?

It was not me that designed the system or the stupid dip stick.

george

Can't do right now as I'm at work! But please do tell If you know, where the oil is hiding when cold. I am not questioning what you said, I'm just asking for the technical explanation behind it.

[Ootohere]

'arnold,'

did the garage not have Scales & did not go out to a Hardwear store , B&Q or Machine Mart & buy ones.?

Did they not have new oil and a filter to put in to do the test?

Is this a Skoda Dealership workshop?

That was rubbish from them, 'pants on fire'.

'Newbie69',

Can you not see that the oil is not hiding when cold.

When cold it is all back in the Sump.

The oil shows high up the stick above the full mark.

If it shows at the top of the Hatch when cold, you have not got 3.6 litres in.

*3.6 litres of oil cold will be about 1 cm higher up the stick on the orange and difficult to read, not hiding.*

When up to running temperature the oil is around the engine and back into the sump.

That is when the correct amount of oil shows at the top part of the hatched area.

Thats why i say, check when cold yourself and see what it shows.

then check when hot and then stopped, but not back to cold.

You have the same oil in the engine after only 10 miles.

VAG says in the 'Owners Manual' check when at normal running temperature not me.

Anyone can do what they like really, I do what i do,

& have checked quite often on a few cars.

george

[newbie69]

Ok, I got it now, I don't understand why you are getting upset though...

In any case, let's not label this as another "oil consumption" thread already... The OP is having repeated coil pack/spark plug issues similar to another member's so it could well be a different story than just oil thirst...

[Ootohere]

'upset'.

Are you reading the posts or making up your own story?

I asked the OP 'once' if he checked the Oil when cold.

The OP said about the oil in the first post, this thread.

'You'

again question why i ask this, & ask ask about the technical or scientific reasons,

then the thread becomes an oil consumption thread.

Can you see that.

root root am oot.

george

PS. Evil Miyagi, can maybe confirm that the first time back in June when ever he had the big cut out & needed a Coil, then again a coil.

Skoda Assist came out and 'never even dipped the oil' at the roadside and it had not been recently checked.

A car is sitting at a roadside and the Operator did not check fluids, very very odd.

Over heating & failing coils or some other sensor problem is afoot.

I have no idea why some peoples cars have no warning lights showing.

vRS's are failing but some people are not helping matters if basic fluid checks are not done.

[Ootohere]

http://www.volkspage...ssp/SSP_359.pdf

Worth looking at the bottom of pages, 32,33, 34,35 etc.

'Effects on signal failure'.

see page 41, '46', so many,

'effects on a signal failure'.

Remember it was published 2006 & there are engine changes since, but the complexity is clear to see.

Not sure al Technicians quite understand the systems fully.

Well not some i have seen being let near a TSi.

george

[newbie69]

Believe it or not, I only asked because I wanted to hear why this is the case with oil-checking (read again!!!: "I agree with..." ), nothing to do with "wanting to question you". Sadly, you sound like you feel I'm "chasing" you or something and completely took my question as an effort to criticize your opinion. (Your reply: "Can you not see....?" , "Anyone can do what they like really, I do what i do,"). I promise never to ask you another question again If that will help.

And the comment regarding not labeling this as another Oil thread, was not directed to you, but to arnold who saw this as another oil issue thread. Didn't 2nd quote him but there are other people replying as well!

[Ootohere]

Please shake hands.

Its nothing off my nose, only trying to help.

SKODA should do it but do not seem able or prepared to.

The oil level & temperatures are just SO IMPORTANT.

Checking and understanding at least the principal is SO IMPORTANT.

The Techs in the Workshops do not even seem to be that aware just how much it is Important.

SKODA UK, told me back in April that they would look at Providing better Information on checking oil.

You will see in the 'Training Document', how much needs to be known other than just plugging in and changing coils.

If you run low oil in a vRS TSI, then what oil there is will very quickly also deplete.

All the best to those that are having problems,

your biggest problem is VAG/SKODA & then the Dealerships.

THere are people doing services and changing and checking the Oil and they do not even know how to.

It seems simple,

they need shown or to use some common sense.

There are Technicians that understand the problem, sadly thay do not appear to work for Skoda Dealerships.

http://www.briskoda....ing-ever-simple

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/247993-i-give-up-update-2nd-update

1000's of TSi vRS, Polo, A1, Ibiza are running without any problems.

george

[newbie69]

This reply makes a lot more sense and is what I was expecting from the beginning...

So you are suggesting oil consumption can lead to more Coils/Plugs failures. It would be nice If the OP confirmed (or denied) that he was experiencing high oil consumption prior to that incident... It was a long post but I don't remember clearly stating he had issues before other than he checks the oil before long trips but that's not quite answering it imho.

[Ootohere]

As i read the OP, there was no mention of 'High Oil Use before'.

Which is why my first post asks that, & about how he dips his oil

& from the Faulty A/C thread last week i knew the car had already done 32,000 miles.

Other than 'sharkriders' or the one that was in a 'Ebay' thread. (47,000 miles)

that is the highest mileage vRS i have heard of.

george

[Guest]

Please shake hands.

Its nothing off my nose, only trying to help.

SKODA should do it but do not seem able or prepared to.

The oil level & temperatures are just SO IMPORTANT.

Checking and understanding at least the principal is SO IMPORTANT.

The Techs in the Workshops do not even seem to be that aware just how much it is Important.

SKODA UK, told me back in April that they would look at Providing better Information on checking oil.

You will see in the 'Training Document', how much needs to be known other than just plugging in and changing coils.

If you run low oil in a vRS TSI, then what oil there is will very quickly also deplete.

All the best to those that are having problems,

your biggest problem is VAG/SKODA & then the Dealerships.

THere are people doing services and changing and checking the Oil and they do not even know how to.

It seems simple,

they need shown or to use some common sense.

There are Technicians that understand the problem, sadly thay do not appear to work for Skoda Dealerships.

http://www.briskoda....ing-ever-simple

http://www.briskoda....date-2nd-update

1000's of TSi vRS, Polo, A1, Ibiza are running without any problems.

george

Wills, I do hope you get this sorted ok. The oil problem may potentially be related to your coil packs believe it or not. But your dealer will be able to tell you and get it sorted. Not long ago a Golf GTI with the same engine and problem came in and the oil issue was noticed then too. Previously it had been ok. I didn't deal with it so can't follow through with more info. Please keep posting to let us all know how it goes, but it's perhaps not very serious, even if it sound like it.

George, you often make many good points but you dun arf speak a load of old tosh too! Is tech and dealer bashing you favourite sport of something? Remember, the total number of Skoda owners on here is just a tiny fraction of the real number out in the real world. Mostly everyone is happy and the dealers do a brilliant job in the main, and thats even on this site. Of course you do get the odd problem job at a dealership and even sometimes a main dealer with a not so good reputation, but these days they are few and far between because they go out of business very quickly. In the main the situation is much better than the one you paint. I speak as someone who has been in the trade a very very long time and worked at different dealerships and for different franchises. I and my colleagues don't seem to recognise much of what you come out with, but you do give us all a good laugh! Thanks George...

Edited 25 September, 2012 by Estate Man

[Ootohere]

Can you tell us how Vehicles keep getting put out with not enough oil in from Services?

There are many thousands of fantastic Technicians, i am sure you work with them.

?? When they work with a Bad colleague or Workmate, someone that is Lazy, or hopeless, a danger to customers perhaps,

then how does everyone just cover for them?

That makes those good Mechanics or Technicians not so good really. Customers and safety should always come first,

or so my Journeyman preached untill he became a liability with drink.

Sadly VAG/Skoda do not sort out dealerships that employ Bad and dishonest Mangement or the not so good Techs.

Only takes a few bad ones and we have more than our share in Scotland.

Scotlands biggest Dealership Owner, in business now for over 50 years.

Now it is not all Forum or before the internet 'Urban Myth'. Just moaning Buyers.

I used to see him come into Dealerships once a week or so.

But Bl00dy hell it is some Company.

Never Undersold. 3 Monkeys behaviour tho.

http://www.en.wikipe...ki/Arnold_Clark

http://www.briskoda....ia-vrs-problems

george

[Evil Miyagi]

Estate Man I had what seems to be exactly the same issue... On the third coil pack it was recovered to the garage and unnsuccesful work carried out to fix it... The dealer were brilliant throughout! Unfortunately the previous dealer not so

[wills]

ok everyone, here we go, latest update to this.

I will try and answer everyone's replies before carrying on...

I always top up the oil according to the manual. I generally let the oil temp rise to around 85ish *C and then turn off, wait a few mins and then check it. It was just below half when I did so I decided to top up with my usual 5w/40 fully synthetic Castrol Edge.

Previously I have always thought my oil consumption was high at around 1 litre every 750-1000 miles but I was told it was in the normal range by the dealer so have always just kept an eye on it. I was informed that if it was using more than 1 litre in 500 miles then that would be cause for concern. I have ALWAYS had black spots over the back of the car though when doing anything more than driving round town.

Obviously the problem I am now having has occurred since they had it in for the A/C repair but I don't believe the two are related, in fact, as you read on I think my higher than usual oil consumption is finally coming to a bit of a head :think:

George - I did check the tech manual on the engine and I believe that the ignition coil(s) were at fault again and 'turning off' the affected cylinder.

Anyway, to carry on - the RAC re-appeared on my doorstep this morning at around 1130ish. I made him aware of the situation and out came the laptop and he went straight into reading the faults. This time the faults were:

Cyl 1 misfire

Cyl 1 coil pack fault

So he immediately went and pulled coil pack and checked for any signs of damage or funny smells. Nothing evident so he decided he would replace the coil pack and put a new set of plugs in too just to be on the safe side. As he had the first coil pack out he removed the first plug and found this...

Now, this to me doesn't look great and having had cars in the past I have never seen a plug looking like this. The RAC man was not too bothered by it though and said that can be normal in these engines as they do run quite lean and can build up carbon deposits on them. The plugs for cylinder 1, 2 and 4 all looked like this...

...the plug for number 3 looked like this however...

It was covered in oil and carbon and there was not much left of it! How the car still ran alright im not sure to be honest. Even more annoying is it only had a service 3500 miles ago - I assume plugs are not a normal service item, never thought to ask really!

The RAC man fitted the plugs, put the new coil pack in number 1 and then wrote me out a report sheet. He reckoned on piston ring problems which from the state of the 3rd plug I tend to agree with. He left the codes in the ECU for Skoda to see too.

After he left I immediately went down to Progress Skoda and have got it booked straight in. The batch of plugs I put on the desk helped my case immensely I reckon

So, who knows what will happen next - I will be having a car off of a rental company apparently so they obviously think it may take some time to sort. Just hope that when they do their investigations they can find whats wrong and finally fix it! While its in there I have a good mind to insist they replace the DSG box as well as it will be all apart!

Will keep the thread updated.

-Will (rather worried!)

[Evil Miyagi]

That plug from cylinder three looks exactly like mine... Keep us updated

[Guest]

Can you tell us how Vehicles keep getting put out with not enough oil in from Services?

There are many thousands of fantastic Technicians, i am sure you work with them.

?? When they work with a Bad colleague or Workmate, someone that is Lazy, or hopeless, a danger to customers perhaps,

then how does everyone just cover for them?

That makes those good Mechanics or Technicians not so good really. Customers and safety should always come first,

or so my Journeyman preached untill he became a liability with drink.

Sadly VAG/Skoda do not sort out dealerships that employ Bad and dishonest Mangement or the not so good Techs.

Only takes a few bad ones and we have more than our share in Scotland.

Scotlands biggest Dealership Owner, in business now for over 50 years.

Now it is not all Forum or before the internet 'Urban Myth'. Just moaning Buyers.

I used to see him come into Dealerships once a week or so.

But Bl00dy hell it is some Company.

Never Undersold. 3 Monkeys behaviour tho.

http://www.en.wikipe...ki/Arnold_Clark

http://www.briskoda....ia-vrs-problems

george

Wills, great you are getting somewhere. Keep posting with your results. Good luck.

Hi George, few things in life are ever perfect, but clearly you have a dealership or group you dont' like for whatever reason/s. Many people have I guess. But don't tar us all with the same brush. I was a senior tech and workshop manager for many years. No one ever got anything past me. I certainly don't recognise the type of technicians you speak about. Do they exist, yes I'm sure you can find some, just like in any job, but not many these days. They just don't survive in the job. If a tech doesn't do his job properly he's a liability to everyone including himself. No tech wants to go to prison for manslaughter which is what happens if they do it wrong and someone gets hurt. No one in there right mind would cover for someone who is a liability because they go to prison too. You sure have some funny ideas George. Incidentally, that person that covered for someone would have to be me at my last dealership as I supervised and inspected everything and I mean everything before it went out and I had discussions with each tech about the job, problems etc as I inspected it checking parts used and job cards etc and making sure the tech was happy with what he had done and visa versa. You know techs worry too about what they do, they want the custome to be happy with his or her car. Not saying that a mistake is never made. That's why I was there to pick that up and help a tech solve a problem. Safety is number one. In spite of what some may think, a bad tech or dealship is not very common these days. Techs do the job because they love what they do and are good at it. It's a career job in case you don't know. Many are really very highly trained and spend years attaining that level. Those are the guys I recognise and worked with and the sort of guys we have at my local Skoda dealership. Incidentally, that's why Skoda consistently scores high on the customer satisfaction surveys. And yes I know dealerships will vary a bit but the standard is generally very high these days. It has to be. But if you get bad service from somewhere, either complain or don't go back. Sorry Wills a bit off topic.

[Guest]

Estate Man I had what seems to be exactly the same issue... On the third coil pack it was recovered to the garage and unnsuccesful work carried out to fix it... The dealer were brilliant throughout! Unfortunately the previous dealer not so

Pleased you got it sorted though. It can take more than one go sometimes with these ultra complex motors. Is she running really well now?

[Evil Miyagi]

Pleased you got it sorted though. It can take more than one go sometimes with these ultra complex motors. Is she running really well now?

Not quite :/ it's going back on the 8th

[Guest]

Damn! is it still the same problem?

[wills]

Well, just to keep the thread updated, car has gone in this morning and investigations are starting today.

Will hopefully know something by the end of today as I have to go back that way so will keep things updated.

-Will