09 projector headlights very weak - help

[fmohiy]

Hi

i own a roomster highline 2009 with projector headlight for both high and low beam. This uses a single H7 light bulb for both high and low.

the problem i have faced since owening the car is that the low beam light is VERY WEAK!! to the point that it almost serves no purpose.

as the headlight uses a single H7 , part of the light is actually obstructed by the headlamp to use for high beam, so it's always using less than the full light capacity of the lamp. And because half the light is used for high beam, it is angled very high to be of any use when i need more light down the road, i think it is meant only to signal the cars in front, not enhance my view of the road.

i've tried all the following with very little success (the stock bulb is 35w H7 halogen )

1-Philips H7 35w performnce - no change

2-Osram night breaker plus H7 55w - no change

3-Trifa 100w H7 - no change , really.

4-generic xenon setup H7 35w - very little change, but i lost the high beam function from cold.

i'm starting to think that the voltage output of my car is messed up, and i'm giving it strong thought to try the following next

1-removing the halogen projetor headlights and installing normal skoda headlights with no projector with H4 bulbs (not sure how high/low beams will work)

2-modifying a H4 dual filament bulp to fit, this way i can have both filaments on at the same time giveing more light for both high and low, check this link

http://www.fz6-forum.com/forum/fz6-mods/2927-real-head-lamp-modification-making-h4-bulb-fit-into-h7-socket.html

3-buyiing a high quality xenon ballast as i think the ones in the market are very low quality

http://www.amazon.com/MAXLUX-Universal-Replacement-Digital-Ballast/dp/B001IXQY62/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3RFZNLM67K4SN&coliid=I2OULVSR0CDIXS

but all of this may not help still if the electricity ouput from my car is weak, so..

4-install a relay for both headlights to get direct power from the battery.

i really don't know what to do, does anyone else have this problem? what is the best solution?

Thanks in advance.

[mannyo]

The low beam on my dads Fabia Greenline which uses the same system is also poor, I think the issue is the projector design and the ways its implemented. On my Octavia MK2 which also had projector lights, the low beam was great but it used a separate bulb for main beam. Fitting a xenon bulb will not improve things, just that the lit area will be brighter, the cutoff point will still be the same.

Others have commented int he past about the poor Fabia lighting, and someone had been trying to get hold of standard reflector lamps to try those instead of the projectors.

[dieselglider]

I fitted the Osram night breaker plus H7 55w to my wife's Roomster, and did notice a positive difference, in that the beam went from mediocre to something approaching normal. Mostly noticeable on a dirty rainy night, on unlit rural roads. You'd wonder how the standard setup ever got past the R&D stage.

[stratosg]

Let me inform you that my Roomster is fitted with single H4 headlight units and unfortunatelly they are poor too. I fitted Osram nightbreakers and indeed there is a vast improvement but nothing to compare with MY02 Octavia H4 headlights I previously owned.

Then I tried to increase the beams angle but unfortunately while road lightning was great, drivers from the opposite were complaining so I put them back.

[fmohiy]

well, its good to know i'm not the only one facing this problem.

today i tried fitting an h4 55/60w bulb instead of the h7 thinking that the dual filaments would make a difference, they didn't.

as the h4 is longer than the h7, the point source of light was not in the sweet spot for the lens, and the beam was messed up and suprisingly less bright than the Osram i'm currently fitting.

i have 2 thning to try next week

1- install a relay and see if this will increase the bulb brightness

2- re-install the xenon light after i buy the good quality ballast

i hope one of those work. i really feel depressed every time i drive at night.

[Lorenzo]

I fitted the Osram night breaker plus H7 55w to my wife's Roomster, and did notice a positive difference, in that the beam went from mediocre to something approaching normal. Mostly noticeable on a dirty rainy night, on unlit rural roads. You'd wonder how the standard setup ever got past the R&D stage.

Agree. I recently fitted a pair of the same bulbs and did notice a positive difference, too. Do not expect xenon light performance, though.

I guess a real xenon light upgrade could be THE solution, but I am very doubtful about costs and technical feasibility.

[Jonny5ive]

I can't agree any more. mine are bearable with 100w bulbs fitted.

Tempted to find a written off MK2 fabia and get some regular front lights instead.

[dieselV6]

Am I right in thinking these are single bulb H7 projector (lens) type lights with a screen toggling high beam on/off? If that is the case, high power HID will sort out your low beam problem. High beam will also be much better, but will not match dual bulb or dual filament setups of similar power as the focusing is relatively poor in single filament low/high beam lamps compared to dual bulb/filament lamps.

You could try H7 HID setup at 65W-75W / 6000-7000 lumen and 4300K-5000K color. This will pump enough light out, about 4x - 5x more than your stock bulbs, with good beam shape and no dazzling thanks to projector design. Don't go for higher/lower color temperature than 4000K-5000K as the light output diminishes quickly.

How did you loose flash function from cold? Do you mean light is not intensive enough? If yes, then make sure you get a "quickstart" HID kit, with 80% of end intensity after 2 seconds or so. Even 20% of 6000 lumen that a 60W HID bulb provides is still a lot more than your stock bulb gives out, and you will get it after 0.5s or less so it is a good flasher.

I have tried quite a few lighting options on my Mk1 Superb, one other way is to overvoltage stock bulbs using boost converter (£8 each on Ebay) for 2x-3x light output at a cost of drastically reduced longevity (still OK for high beam, not so for low beam) ,

But it is harder to do for Roomster/Fabia as headlights are monitored a lot more than in Mk1 Superb. If you are interested, search for my posts on the topic.

[fmohiy]

i already installed a xenon kit and i saw a good difference. My main issue with xenon is that i still did not get the level of "brightness" i was hoping for. The light distribution was much better but looked very bluish and kinda weak. After ready a bit i realized that probably the cheap ballasts installed are not providing full 35w power. So i will purchade a couple of good quality ballasts from amazon and will post here you if it makes much difference

[dieselV6]

Note from my earlier post that you can actually get xenon kits that pump out not 35W, but 65W-75W to the bulb, they come with reinforced bulbs (or burners). These kits produce over double the light your current 35W HID kit makes, and 5x-6x times the light of stock bulbs (stock bulb loaded voltage is well below 12V). By comparison, your current HID kit produces "only" 2x - 3x times the light of stock bulb.

Changing ballasts for higher power without changing burners will result in shorter lifetime, and above 60W also likely exploding burners inside the headlight. You need 35W to 50W ballasts when using 35W burners, or 50W-75W ballasts with uprated burners (typically rated at 50W). There are also high power ceramic base HID burners that need 75W - 100W to run.

If your headlights have magnesium reflector (many Hella designs do) placed without any plastic bits mounting/around the bulb, you could even retrofit 100W HID kit. These will pump out 9000 lumens, or 8x-9x stock light. However, if any part close to the bulb/burner is plastic, it will melt over time with this high power.

Edit: if you look for "rapid start H7 4300K hid kit" on Ebay and similar, you should get a selection 35W/55W/70W. 70W one will definitely be enough, at 6000-6500lumen, they nowadays advertise 90% brightness within 1 second from startup, so high beam flasher should be acceptable too.

Edited 10 October, 2012 by dieselV6

[fmohiy]

wow!! Thanks for this great information. I will definitely look for those now.

[Lorenzo]

Note from my earlier post that you can actually get xenon kits that pump out not 35W, but 65W-75W to the bulb, they come with reinforced bulbs (or burners). These kits produce over double the light your current 35W HID kit makes, and 5x-6x times the light of stock bulbs (stock bulb loaded voltage is well below 12V). By comparison, your current HID kit produces "only" 2x - 3x times the light of stock bulb.

............

Is it street legal in UK? In Italy I'd have more than trouble with road police :wonder:

[dieselV6]

In projectors, especially as weak as the ones discussed here, no one cares except for forum trolls (as it gives perfect opportunity to derail otherwise technical threads) . And yes, the lights will pass UK MOT as long as beam shape is correct and headlight washers are operational (but only if fitted, if headlight washers are not fitted it is just beam shape that matters).

HIDs in reflectors are another story, UK police like most people can see excessive and ridiculous glare, eventually you will get stopped and fined. And of course on MOT the beam shape will be wrong so it will fail at a respectable tester

I have been travelling over 10-12 countries in Europe regularly in the past 12 years, and it seems that police authorities in at least the Europe I visit have taken sensible attitude that if there is no excessive dazzle, there is no reason to stop/fine.

If you compare actual light intensity on the road, there are cars with factory well designed reflectors and sensible electrics that pump out more light out of a stock unmodified H7 bulb than even a 55W HID in a VW/Skoda Hella projector housing. Skodas/VW have quite lossy lens / screen setup, though beam shape control is excellent and superior to reflector type designs.

Projector light housing by default loses 50% light compared to reflector, this is due to the screen in the middle. Or in other words, if you put 35W HID instead of H7 in a projector, you have only equalled light output of a decent reflector type headlamp with H7 stock bulb. 70W HID in a projector, while excellent, barely equals light output of a 35W HID reflector setup that some Asian manufacturers use. It is possible to make better projectors but for some reason (patents, accountants, who cares, etc.) it is not done, they are mostly made with ellipsoidal reflector, a screen in the middle, and a lens, and lose 50% light at the outset.. If you want good and factory made lights, you would have to stop buying VW Group cars, I am afraid, as most, including factory HIDs, have similar headlamp design objectives, with very good beam shape control but poor light output. This also goes for supporting electrics, where VW cars prefer cheap solution of thin wires and low voltage to the lamp to ensure longevity, when they could provide 50% more light from same H7 housing and at similar longevity, by upgrading the wiring and putiing soft start current limiter (but accountants say no to that, it's 5 pence lost after all...)

Edited 11 October, 2012 by dieselV6

[Lorenzo]

Thank you for the expert advice, V6

I think I will stick to the simplest fix, ie. fitting better H7 bulbs. I know it is not the best, but I do not feel like doing heavy tuning for some reasons (costs, technical complications, etc.)

Just a little OT, I find xenon lights on most cars I meet on the road at night really really irritating for the sight. This is another reason I would not like to be a cause of such annoyance to other drivers. Maybe it is just bad lights setup, but that is the way it is. :wonder:

[dieselV6]

I do not see much difference between 4300k colour xenons that most manufacturers use, and e.g. the Nightbreaker halogens, other than 4300K/50W+ HIDs produce enought light in Hella projectors, while Nightbreaker does not.

But I agree that the 6000K-8000K colour HID lights are very annoying, and they also tend to exaggerate glare. Funnily enough, they also produce less light per watt and do not have as much range, they really are just for looks.

Unfortunately, the 6000K-8000K range is what most fitters push as it is more profit to them than the "boring" stock colour. Also, remember that most cars on the road are still reflector style low beam lamps, and yet a lot are fitted with HIDs. Reflectors and HIDs equals glare, there is no way around this, the HID electric arc shape is totally different shape than halogen bulb filament shape, and produces different beam.

Best to go for 4300K setup, there really is no perceptible glare from projectors using this.

Currently our Roomster (dual H7 per light) has 50W 4300K HIDs (cost free, leftover 35W H7 HID burners with ancient 1/4 brick size ballasts left from earlier Superb projects ) in low beams, and carries Philips Xtreme H7 halogens in high beams (again cost free leftovers, I probably should stop playing with Superb's lights ). High beam lamps are reflector style, so the Xtremes work very well, as Nightbreakers would too. I used Nightbreakers before, in high beams for Octavia and Superb.

Also, I should mention that due to travel from/to UK, both cars drive flat beam most of time. With flat beam set on the projector, you'd be hard pressed to see any light above the cutoff, there really is no perceptible glare.

Fitting H7 kit to Roomster for a single set of lamps takes about 10mins, 1 drill or knife to cut hole in low beam caps, several cable ties to mount ballasts, and pliers to tighten the cable ties, that's all. There is a decent place for the ballast in the small well above each headlamp, really not much effort. Best to get spare caps for rear of headlamps and make holes for the cables/grommet in these. That leaves you an option to go back to bulbs if anything goes wrong.

FYI, for dual H7 setups, fitting HIDs only makes sense to low beam. High beam HID will pump out a lot more light, but most of it will hit the road close to the car as the beam will be far less focused with HID than with halogen bulb due to difference in arc vs filament size. It is better to relay or overvoltage high beam bulbs, or swap to Nighbreakers/Xtremes instead.

Edited 15 October, 2012 by dieselV6

[fmohiy]

Hi all

Just wanted to tell you the last progress.

I took dieselv6's advise (thanks man) and bought 75w 4300k H7 HIDs from ebay. 88$ cost + 15$ shipping.

i just installed them today and the difference is phenomenal.

I used to have one of the worst light intensity beams for both low and high beams, and i now i have one of the best!!!

the kit had a relay cable so there is no extra load on the original light connections and everything runs cool.

I took some pictures to show the difference against the 55w night breakers and the 35w xenons i used to have.

I hope you find this post useful and please tell me if you have any questions.

PS: please take into consideration that the camera (Nokia 808) adjusts its light sensitivity to the amount of light produced by the lamp. the beams from night breaker may appear weak in comparison to the 75w HID, but it is actually not bad if i photograph it by itself. so just compare difference in light intensity, not absolute light intensity

.upload.zip

Edited 19 November, 2012 by fmohiy

[klivepe]

ive put hid bulbs in mine and there still crap just have to face the projector lamps are rubbish on main and dip

[dieselV6]

I took dieselv6's advise (thanks man) and bought 75w 4300k H7 HIDs from ebay. 88$ cost + 15$ shipping.

....

the kit had a relay cable so there is no extra load on the original light connections and everything runs cool.

I am glad you are happy with both low and high beams as HID. However, the high beam HIDs, while pumping a lot more light, will not offer you much more range/throw, and can be blinding to you as a driver in some circumstances. Id keep those Nightbreakers in the high beams (as I have advised earlier).

I took the liberty of extracting one of the pictures you posted. It clearly shows the hot spots of HID and NB on high beam.

And you can see that the HID hotspot is much, much bigger but only about the same peak brightness as the NB hotspot.

At a distance, this translates to HID high beam dumping most of its light close to the car, this actually masks to some degree obstacles far away from the car as ilight dumped close to the car blinds you back. By contrast, the Nightbreakers will dump most of its light far away from the car. For close-range lighting you have your brand new 75W low beam HID, so the 2 complement each other. To convince yourself, put 1 Nightbreaker back in the high beam, park the car with 2nd person inside, at night, on a 200m+ straight, leave engine on, lights on low and high beams and walk 200m-300m away from the car and see which light you see brighter, the HID, or the NB. I am reasonably sure NB will either win or draw this contest. Together with HID tendency to spill light close to the car, this means NBs are better than HIDs for high beam as you will see further (that's what high beams are for, to see further not close but brighter).

Aside from that, you mentioned that the kits came with relay cables to battery. Do you get any warnings on the Instrument Cluster (lights failure, etc)? I am just curious as I always connect the HIDs inside the headlamp, this prevents light failure warnings and allows to swap them for bulbs easily in case of problems during a trip.

Edited 20 November, 2012 by dieselV6

[dieselV6]

(deleted, meant to add to post above)

Edited 20 November, 2012 by dieselV6

[fmohiy]

Well , if you check my very first post, you will see that I really don't have of choice as I have only one h7 bulb used for both high and low beams. A very bad design choice from skoda I must say. The new roomsters from 2010 onward had two separate bulbs, not the ones from 2007 till 2009. And the problem is compounded for models with projector headlights like I have.

Actually, for sometime I thought about selling my 2009 roomster and buying a 2012 model just for the better light.

Well, light problem is now over for me.

Next step.... Breaks upgrade.

[dieselV6]

Oops, forgot that it was the single H7, quite a few people asked me about their lights recently and I thought about the double H7 setup. Yes, for the single H7 that is the best you can do, single strong HID burner.

Edited 20 November, 2012 by dieselV6

[dieselV6]

^{Can you answer this please?}

^{>Aside from that, you mentioned that the kits came with relay cables to battery. Do you get any warnings on the Instrument Cluster (lights failure, etc)? I am just curious as I always connect the HIDs inside the headlamp, this prevents light failure warnings and allows to swap them for bulbs easily in case of problems during a trip.<}

[fmohiy]

No warnings at all. But then again I didn't get any in the old cheap xenon kit also.

[lowedb]

I got to drive mine at night for the first time a couple of days ago. I do see why you are complaining. I've now put some nightbreakers in to see if they help!