Hi all,

Just been lucky enough to be gifted a Fabia VRS mk1 from my brother in law!! It's done 100k but he drives like an old lady so the engine's good. The car feels lovely and solid to drive, i've had quite a lot of VAG cars before so it is what I was expecting

A few problem though, i'm trying to get a handle on what is part of the usual expectation from Fabia owner and what needs sorting out.

Firstly the back brake disks are shot, the fronts look fine though. Under braking it feels like you just can't scrub the speed off quick enough although if you really push down on the paddle it does. This isn't my experience of shot back brakes, they are normally there to help balance the car under braking rather that affecting the deceleration (to this extent anyway) It also feels very unsteady under harder braking, with steering setup being almost impossible while the brakes are on, definitely no trailing brakes going into a bend. I'm sure this is down to the weight disrubution and suspension setup of the car. It feels under damped and over sprung. I know that the diesel block is very heavy all the way out in front which doesn't help but then it doesn't feel to 'pushy' entering the bend, just unstable. There is absolutely no late braking/ fast turn in / late apex full throttle cornering here, just not possible. I have to drive it much more like a higher, more softly sprung vehicle like a Touran or s-max, make sure all braking is done on an (absolutely) straight/flat bit of road, ease off the brakes rather than let go so as not to start bounce, turn in on a trailing throttle and not give it the beanz until the apex is just past. Don't get me wrong, done gently this car is very quick, my preferred driving style, and one born out of small powerful front wheel drive cars is to be able to drive on the edge and feel the control of the car at work, I feel like i'm having to try and keep various elements that don't feel synergistic at bay at the moment. This is all capped off by the power steering being very light and offering very little feedback.

I know it sounds like i'm having a dig, but I'm not. I think this is a great car, very comfortable, looks great, feels good to drive at slower speeds etc, definitely a keeper!! I just want to get a handle on what a standard car should be doing before I go off half cocked tricking things out when it could be a few simple adjustments here and there

In my mind I need to start with the rear brakes, it may be a good idea to put better/larger brakes on while I am doing this, I expect some of the faster VAG cars will have larger parts that bolt on? Obviously the front brakes will need doing as well. Is my lack of braking confidence just due to this do we think? Are the hoses already braided? Not sure what DOT the brake fluid is but this could be replaced with better stuff I expect, what about the servo / master cylinder any thing worth doing there. how well does everyone else's stop?

It's seems that changing the suspension setup to coilovers would be a good idea, it would only be entry level ones though as I can't spend to much money, maybe JOM or AP do them for this car? any preferences? That should help sort our the under damped diving / instability under braking and turn in, and the subsequent bounce back. Have any of the entry level ones got preload? i find dialling in the corner weight of a car always helps greatly.

Tempting to say top and bottom strut braces all round next but I think that along with stiffer bushes etc they are icing, I think a rear anti-roll bar might help more. Like I said the car isn't to pushy but it probably will be if the better suspension let me chuck it into the bend a bit more!! A RARB should help with this a bit.

Lastly not sure where to start with the lack of steering feel, I'm sure there must be a VAG COM hack to weight it up a bit more? That's not the real problem though. Maybe there are some better track rod ends out there. Not had a chance to get underneath and see how it steers but there must be some play between me and the tyre that is ironing out all the little things I need to feel?

Sorry that got a bit long! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ta

Stefan

Wow. Most people just say hi!

You seem to have a good idea of waht to expect already.

The big lump of pig iron under the bonnet doesn't help handling or braking and the standard suspension is pretty soft.

So brakes first and I guess (as with everything) it depends how deep your wallet is as to how far you want to go to fix it.

What you describe sounds exactly like how my standard black car and my mothers standard SE feel; althoguh i'm comparing those to my car so not really apples v apples.

The most common upgrade is to swap the front 288mm set up for the whole kit thats attached to the front of a TT/Octavia VRS/Golf mk4/Leon mk1.

This ups disc size to 312mm increases pad size and requires a caliper and carrier change.

This better heat dispersion so better braking with less fade (although unless really going for it you'd be hard pushed to notice)

That said i know people who have just upgraded the 288 discs and pads and managed to run 200+ bhp and not spear into a hedge.

The rears can be upgraded to the rear set up from the same list above but it's vary rarely done as (so people say) the rears do very little braking.

Of course a refresh with new discs and pads and fresh fluid might solve the problem on a much smaller budget though.

Suspension - now the can of worms is open enjoy trying to herd them up!

I'd say that after 100k the standad springs and dampers are screwed.

I had mine replaced at 120k after spending ages with a wobbly non-handling car and upon removal I had damper that did not damp and springs which did not spring.

Coilovers are an option of course but you get what you pay for and having not gone down that road I can't advise.

There are also a raft of lowering springs out there too if you wanted to go down that route.

A RARB certainly helps bring things under control. My Jabba one is great and people give rave reviews of the Whiteline one which is thinner but adjustable and a lot less moolah.

A momo front top strut brace from the SEAT parts catalogue is regualr modification and comes in at about £60 (at last check)

Forge Motorsport also do a rear top strut brace as well.

Bushes can be updgraded there is a full range of powerflex ones but the most common upgrade is to replace console bushes with SEAT Cupra ones.

These are solid rather than voided like the standard ones which tend to break up after about 60k.

It might be worth checking yours/with your brother, as if the ones on your car have not been changed that could be the source of all the wobbliness!

Hi Pasty boy,

I meant to just say hi!! I've never known when to stop........a bit like my fabia........

Thanks for all the pointers, especially the console bushes one, although i'm not sure whether it's the front or rear wishbone bush you mean, probably best to change both at the same time anyway? I also notice in the poweflex range for the polo they do an eye bolt mounting bush which I assume is for the track rod end? They don't mention it in the skoda range but it must be the same setup there as well, right?

I think i'll go with the larger caliper and carriers for the front and leave the back stock. Any particular discs that are known to work well? i thought i'd give the new brembo max discs a whirl.

Stefan

See this guide on how to change the console bushes and which ones it is

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/92625-fabia-wishbone-bush-replacement-diy-guide/

I thought about attempting to DIY it but got a garage to do mine insetad.

I had powerflex bushes added to the ront anti roll bar when the console bushes were changed but nothing more.

I did find them a bit squeaky though so went back to standard when the ARB was replaced a few years later.

My 312 set up was off a brand new TT (they were removed unused at factory to fit Brembos) so mine were OEM and thats as much as i know.

I've just had Pagid discs fitted as replacements and can't fault them.

Howdee Newbie, and Cliff of course. If you just intend to drive the car on the road then -

Eibach Springs are a must front & back:

312 Brakes/Pagid parts for the front as Cliff described, those Brembo Max discs are no better and look a bit boy racer'ish, leave the rears standard:

Koni FSD shocks all round:

Some Poly bushes here and there:

Rear ARB: That'll get you started for now.

Hi Soot1e

Yeah only intend to drive it on the road, but I do drive quite hard and am quite fussy with a cars handling. This can't cost mega bucks either so the FSD's and Eibachs are out really. Coil overs are the way forward I if you are starting from scratch IMHO that way if I feel the need to adjust ride height I can do so without changing damper throw and spring rate. I'll also know that the spring rate and damping rate were matched in the design process. They'll have to be cheap ones though so JOM it will have to be I think. They do get some good reviews for the price though.

Standard discs eh, goes against the grain a bit, not bothered by boy racer looks but some gas evec would be nice to. Once thoses brakes inspire more confidence the fade is bound to rear it's ugly head!! What are the standard discs? EBC I suppose?

Stefan

I'd go for standard discs an pads on the back and a set of cross drilled discs when the time comes on the front as I think they wear pads less IMHO, pad wise on the front I'd go for EBC or other big name or even vags own.

Brakes are unimpressive I think but I still manage to brake hard then throw it into the corner, just takes a bit to gain confidence in it (after driving my last car a focus). :-)

I foud that the brakes took a few weeks to get used to. I have grooved mintex disks front and rear with matching pads, these do make a difference £144 from the bay (http://www.ebay.co.u...=item45f72ab0f4) but I do think that the pedal feel is lacking so I have a set of Goodridge braided stainless hoses to improve that aspect (not fitted yet to chicken to do myself). I spent Months researching week points on the car and compiling a 3 year long "to do" list including bushes RARB and front strut. I would probably recommend getting the car tracked after any suspension improvements. (as my dad has found out with his skyline )

Welcome. I have standard rears with el crappo discs and pads (Jorilys finest )

and 312 VAG fronts with pagid discs and pads. Used to run a whiteline rarb (God I miss that..)

and I'm on sports shocks and springs. It's no sportscar handling wise and won't ever be

unless you strip and redistibute a lot of weight and combine that with the very best suspension

components probably costing a few thousand quid. Even then a slightly sorted MX5 will slaughter it round a twisty road.

I love my Fabia and I've made it handle better than stock, but I'm realistic and

it can only be a nose heavy diesel runabout unless I spend bundles on suspension

and setup moneypit. Handling is not this cars trump card. Mid range power is.

It only really becomes formidable on a straight piece of road.

Like I said, I love mine but I'm just being honest.

BTW a full bleed and upgrade of brake fluid will probably do a world of good.

I'm using the ATE Super Blue with my setup.

The back brakes need cleaned and wirebrushed every once in a while to

keep noises down and corrosion under control. The rougher and dirtier they get,

the less they are doing and the more you'll feel the imbalance with the car.

Nosediving under heavy braking in particular coupled with a squirming feeling

of the car at the rear.

Stefan, 312mm. Pagid discs and pads with decent brake fluid are all you need, trust me.

The biggest problem to get over with is understeer with the heavy engine up front, of course some controlled left foot braking will sort that out if you can master that.

GRR666 (Hi Gary) comments above are a good indication of what to expect in a mildly modified VRS, despite it's limitations it really is a fun car to drive.

Hi all, thanks for all of the comments, it's been a great help. Spoke to a mate today who works for unipart. They do thier own brand discs and he can get them for me at about half of trade price! Unipart used to sell ebc and pagid but decided to get thier own manufactured to get better consistency apparently. Anyone used them? They should be the equal of the others mentioned here. Only thing is trying to get the size correct. There are three different offsets listed for vag parts 34, 46, or 50 mm. Which ones? I've ordered some audi tt recon calipers and carriers from ebay so they need to fit them

Tbh i don't mind a bit of understeer just so long as i can feel what is going on and respond quickly. If fact i quite like going from understeer to a bit of lift of oversteer:-) Not sure about left foot braking in the road. Being near the limit is one thing, trying to outwit the laws of physics is another! You'll have me installing brake biasing next.....................not a bad idea actually:-)

Stefan

Don't bother with left foot braking cos you'll alway's end up changing down when the turbo lags and only end up head butting the windscreen :-0