Attended the ww.vage.ie Rolling Road day out today at Westward Engineering in Ireland and put my 2 week old Octy on the rollers.

Its a PD 105 and it put out 122 bhp and 255.5 lb/ft of torque. Now these rollers are the best in the country and are spot on so figures are correct.

Sorry if I am being thick but------122 hp from a 105 hp and 255 ft/lbs instead of 188.

What have you done to it ---what are you running it on ?

What am I getting wrong ?

Pretty much a normal for a VAG diesel to put out above quoted output. FMIC on the New Octavia helps with rolling road tests reducing heat build up.

Nice result.

Yeah the FMIC is the reason I think.

Check out www.superchips.co.uk

If you look at the rolling road torque and power curves for the 1.9TDi and 2.0 TDi PD engines for any Skoda, Seat, VW or Audi BEFORE re-mapping, the findings are as follows:

1.9 TDi 105 - 118 bhp

2.0 TDi 140 - 156 bhp

I thought they had just copied the graph over for each manufacturer as each manufacturer uses the same engines but the maximum power/torque rpm figures differ slightly between each manufacturer. They have obviously done the tests. Although the Fords, BMW's and older VW engines etc have a small increase in power (pre re-mapping) over that on paper, only the PD's have this 11 or 12% increase and i'm not inclined to doubt it. It would certainly explain the excellent performance particularly in the 2.0 TDi.

Also of note is that peak torque for the standard 2.0 TDi is at 2500 rpm. This correlates with recent findings and explains why there are reports of fuel economy on the 2.0 TDi being poorer in 6th gear than in fifth below motorway speeds. Fuel economy is best nearest the peak torque so 6th should be reserved for motorway/dual carriageway driving. I read somewhere that 54mpg combined is possible from the 2.0 TDi using this technique.

The VW Golf 1.9 TDi sport has a 6 speed box and has no probs maximising economy in 6th below motorway speeds but thats because its torque peaks out around 1900rpm.

Check out the actual torque of the standard engines on superchips too. It's incredible.

I compared the superchips figures with the figures for the Mondeo 155bhp ST Tdci and when you take weight into account the two cars are pretty closely matched. The mondeo has the edge as it has a 10% overboost function but it's a 22 grand car without options. On this basis the 9.6 second 0-60 speed of the Octy 2 2.0 Tdi is more likely to be nearer 8.6 seconds.

Final thought. On this basis, the new 170bhp PD diesel engine based Skoda/VW models due later in the year don't look like their worth the likely premium when you can get 185bhp from the standard 2.0 140 bhp car for

Re fuel consumption; I had a trip to Scotland recently, with cruise set to 80mph for most of the m6/m74 my 2.0 tdi averaged 50.5mpg (on the MFI). At 70mph I reckon 53 would be seen easily.

Main difference is that insurance on a standard car is probably cheaper though

And you don't invalidate the warranty

I

Johnnyc that's really strange about the 2.0 for example...

why VW wouldn't say it's a 155 hp engine than a 140 hp ?

Anybody done a test 0-100km/h with the 2.0 to see if it's faster than the official 9.6s ?

My experience is that most cars will give a better 0-60 time than that on paper if you time it yourself anyway. But that would be for any car and isn't comparitive. It's also not that accurate.

Some people also argue that manufacturers deliberately increase 0-60 times slightly, hoping you'll be satisfied if you acheive the quoted figure. This is an effort to prevent you pushing the engine over the absolute edge where you could damage the engine and then make a warranty claim on the basis that you were only trying to get the official quoted performance from your car.

With regard to the superchips BEFORE mapping tests on the 2.0 PD TDi yeilding 156 bhp, I have no reason to doubt their findings. These are my arguments:

1. If you check the other manufacturers on the superchips site you'll find that the power levels before remapping are very close to that on paper thus demonstrating the accuracy of the test equipment. I suppose you could argue that their rolling road was badly out of calibration when the 1.9 or 2.0 Skoda Octavias were tested but the findings are almost the same for VW, Audi & Seat. I doubt they were all tested on the same machine at the time the machine happened to be so badly out of calibration.

2. This is Superchip's business. They were one of the very first companies offering this service in the uk. They are big and I would imagine that their rolling roads are the most up to date and accurate setups in the UK.

3. If the BEFORE test yeilded only the VW claimed figure of 140bhp then wouldn't Superchips use this to their advantage by claiming their re-map will give an extra 46bhp instead of 30 bhp. They could call it a 'super duper' chip and charge more for it probably too.

Joking aside, in the end after chipping and in accordance with the superchips figures, you'll expect to walk away with a 186 bhp car (or thereabouts) regardless of the power of your 2.0 TDi beforehand.

You'd be a bit pi**ed off if they quoted that you'd get approx 186 bhp after remapping and you only actually got 170bhp because for some obscure reason your particular 2.0 PD Tdi BEFORE remapping was over 10% less powerful than any other 2.0 PD Tdi they had ever tested. I'd ask for my money back and i'm sure there would be a trade description issue too. I'd be asking my dealer about it too if it wasn't such a quick way of cancelling my warranty.

4. HopeImRight backs up these findings in this thread with his 1.9 PD Tdi.

5. Throughout the Superchips BEFORE tests for all VW group cars, they consistantly found that peak torque for the 2.0 PD TDi is around 2500 rpm. This is a fact backed up by various sources but VW claim a wider peak torque range to avoid highlighting the peakiness (is that a word) of the the engine. Anyone who has driven a 2.0 PD Tdi (manual) car will have experienced this.

I conclude, Superchips must have run the tests and the figures would appear to be correct.

Anyone ever successfully taken on a Mondeo 2.2 TDCI ST or a Vectra 16v 1.9CDTi in their 2.0 PD Tdi engine based car?

Feedback please......

Pretty much a normal for a VAG diesel to put out above quoted output. FMIC on the New Octavia helps with rolling road tests reducing heat build up.

Nice result.

Very interesting ,but i am ignorant to what is f m i c ?

Very interesting ,but i am ignorant to what is f m i c ?

f-ront

m-ounted

i-nter

c-ooler

Dont forget that manufacturers have to take into account the wide variation in fuel quality and ambient temperature.. also there will be *slight* differences between engines like with the 20vt, you get more power if you run Optimax.

i think in Asia.. their Octy RS is only specified as having 150bhp because their fuel quality is so low.

and as a general rule i stay away from supermarket derv as it makes the car "feel" more sluggish and fuel economy suffers.

also (iirc) dont the top speed and 0-60 tests happen with an "average" load.. eg half a tank of fuel, stuff in the boot and a passenger.. i rekon just adding a passenger can add about half a second to a 0-60.. even more in the smaller engined cars.

the only true way to measure the engine output of a car is to remove its engine, and bench test it... i bet if you ran a PD engine with a std gearbox and a DSG they would make different figures on the RR. even tyre pressures and wear can make a difference!

Neo_VR but this doesn't explain why every dci or tdci, etc have only a 5-6 HP increase in these tests, while the VW TDI PDs have a 16 hp increase !

JBS have dyno'd standard 2 litre PD140's and they gave 140 bhp not way over :s

if I'm not mistaken there are 2 "powers", one at wheel (which is lower because of the transmision) and one at the "engine". If JBS has done a test with the 140 and the power was 140, I'm pretty sure they messured the power at wheel, not the engine power, and if they do the exact test with a petrol engine (let's say 115 fsi) then the power should be a lot smaller than the official number, no ?

Thanks guys