k04,gt28 or 30?

[stu_mcl]

Im looking at changing my fabia vrs for a golf or octy with the 2.0tfsi engine, itl be an older one with high millege so i can use the left over money from the fab to mod the octy

Having looked into it il need rs4 fuel pump and injectors, big intercooler, intake and exhust aswell as a clutch (brakes, lsd and coilovers aswell for handling) but is there anything else iv missed?

Now the dilemma i have is what turbo to use aswell k04 is tried and tested but i want to try and crack 400 ish so this mainly leaves the gt28 and the gt30, i know the gt28 will spool quicker and such but i quite like the idea of the lag on the gt30 making other cars think they have a chance before it kicks in........so does anyone have any personel experiance in any of the above or any advice?

Help would be greatly appreciated

Oh an yess im aware i could buy several very nice cars for the kinda money il need to spent but i cant insure anything i like......plus the fun is in the modifing and creating something monsterous

[Yeti_Man]

Gt28 for me as (you've already mentioned) it spools slightly earlier than the Ko4. Anything bigger isn't my style to be honest but I've had a 28 and a ko4 and I'd say the 28 was better overall although will do similar peak figures afaik. :-)

[stu_mcl]

Was the dirrence in spool time really noticable or was it just slightly earlier?

[blackspaven]

i quite like the idea of the lag on the gt30 making other cars think they have a chance before it kicks in

I found that when I had a particularly fast car I actually grew up quicker and had no interest in being a boy racer cos I knew I could do it without proving anything.

[martziniuk]

You don't need the rs4 fuel pump (it wont fit anyway) but you may benifit from an rs4 Fuel return valve.

The issue is traction mainly, I'm on K04 and can get good amounts of low rpm wheel spin in fourth in the wet.

[stu_mcl]

Cant see me growing up anytime so.....i thought that with the fabia but it didnt happen :(

Martzini- what other parts did you fit? aLso how much did it cost in total if you dont mind me asking?

[Yeti_Man]

Was the dirrence in spool time really noticable or was it just slightly earlier?

It was but then it was being run with slightly 'better' hardware including a 3" downpipe so that's going to help to be fair. The downpipe hasn't yet gone onto the Yeti so it's not a direct comparison perhaps. The 28 was wound up by something like 2300rpm, the ko4 takes around 500rpm more. Mikko at Shark reckon the downpipe should lower this by around 250rpm (proven on his Ko4 golf).

Btw, will the ko4 actually break 400 bhp reliably?

[martziniuk]

I was already at stage 2+ on the K03 turbo. I have a full 3" TBE and uprated apr high pressure fuel pump, the mods are in my sig.

I bought all the parts for the K04 conversion for about £600 and fitted myself.

[stu_mcl]

Ahhh so its you yeti i read about on facebook:D

Revo claim 370+ on a k04 but that is a revo claim so who knows

[martziniuk]

Btw, will the ko4 actually break 400 bhp reliably?

No. Water meth would get it maybe 370bhp. You'd need to watch torque on the BWA engine or you'll start bending rods. The Audi S3 engine is stronger.

[stu_mcl]

I was already at stage 2+ on the K03 turbo. I have a full 3" TBE and uprated apr high pressure fuel pump, the mods are in my sig.

I bought all the parts for the K04 conversion for about £600 and fitted myself.

Did the k04 fit onto the k03 manifold or did it come with one?

I can pick up a new gt30 turbo for 700ish but i have no idea how much itl cost to get a manifold fabricated up....a good few hundred at a guess

So if it bends rods at 370ish im guessing it would be worth uprating them for a bigger turbo? I had a brief look at internals the other day and seen je piston and rods for 700 iirc

[martziniuk]

It comes with a manifold and fits the same Downpipe. Gt30 would need new Dp, rs4 injectors and some sort of manifold and boost pipe work, not forgetting intercooler upgrade and custom software. The internals seem ok on power but torque seems to bend rods. If you went Gt30 I think I would upgrade the rods and pistons.

[martziniuk]

Oh and budget a grand for the clutch unless you get DSG.

[stu_mcl]

Think k04 is looking the best option then, is an s3 intercooler enough?, what do you reckon a k04 on uprsted internals will make?

Im fed up with the dsg on the fabia so il be going for a manual

[martziniuk]

It will make the same as a K04 on stock internals. Stock internals can handle a K04 without decreasing the torque in the map.

Yeah an S3 cooler is enough but you can get better, maybe a THS or Twintercooler.

[Harry_vRS]

A GT28 is no bigger than a K04 so don't bother. For everyday road use, K04 every time IMO. The spool is a lot more practical and it is heaps of fun. It really is the ultimate street turbo.

I currently run the K04 and it makes 330bhp, and I'm planning on water/meth injection later on in the year when summer arrives as a treat to myself. That should see me to around 360bhp.

You have to ask yourself is the extra 40+bhp on top of that worth the extra expense that a GT30 would command? I'm not so sure. I honestly think that lag would p155 me off day to day, however, that might actually help with traction. I've also toyed with the idea of getting my K04 hybridised, for a theoretical 380-400bhp as well.

[Grizzle]

^ Couldnt have put it better my self Harry

[Kiwibacon]

If you want 400hp, then you need to select a turbo based on what can push 400hp worth of air (rule of thumb is 1lb/min of air = 10hp on a petrol). This is roughly 40 lb/min of airflow.

But it's not that simple either. You need to plot out the boost required to push that amount of air through your engine on the compressor maps and find one that'll fit without surging or choking. Then it's hot side (turbine) sizing to put the boost into the rev range required.

The smallest garrett that can push 40lb/min is the GT2871. But I haven't mapped one out for your engine and intercooler.

[Yeti_Man]

Ahhh so its you yeti i read about on facebook:D

Revo claim 370+ on a k04 but that is a revo claim so who knows

Yes, that's mine. I'd bet you wouldn't see 370+ bhp on Sharks very 'honest' rollers! I previously had a stage 2+ Octavia mk 2 VRS and that was nippy enough but you couldn't get round the fact that it was a small turbo being run relatively hard. The Revo mapping probably wasn't the best option but it was what the company used when the work was all done and it did the job. The K04 feels comparatively much much more capable whereas the stage 2+ k03 was done by 6000rpm, the k04 (on a 200cc smaller block!) feels like it could pull hard to 8000rpm! Sort of like having the lungs of a healthy 25 year old compared to the rather less efficient lungs of an 85 year old 40 a day smoker!

[martziniuk]

A GT28 is no bigger than a K04 so don't bother. For everyday road use, K04 every time IMO. The spool is a lot more practical and it is heaps of fun. It really is the ultimate street turbo.

I currently run the K04 and it makes 330bhp, and I'm planning on water/meth injection later on in the year when summer arrives as a treat to myself. That should see me to around 360bhp.

You have to ask yourself is the extra 40+bhp on top of that worth the extra expense that a GT30 would command? I'm not so sure. I honestly think that lag would p155 me off day to day, however, that might actually help with traction. I've also toyed with the idea of getting my K04 hybridised, for a theoretical 380-400bhp as well.

I was tempted by water meth, 1. It'll keep the inlet valves clean 2. It will provide a considerable increase in power.

The downside is the upkeep.

[Harry_vRS]

I know. I'm not sure how much methanol costs. I was planning to buy it pure and mix it myself.

[martziniuk]

Apparently genuine VAG screen wash works very well. Search Audi SRS forum.

[vRSy]

Im looking at changing my fabia vrs for a golf or octy with the 2.0tfsi engine, itl be an older one with high millege so i can use the left over money from the fab to mod the octy

You have two TFSI engines on the Octavia to consider. The oldest is the AXX. This was phased out pretty much straight away and replaced with the BWA. The BWA had many fixes and from what i remember runs a different compression ratio.

If your going to buy one, go for the latter.

Having looked into it ill need RS4 fuel pump and injectors, big intercooler, intake and exhaust aswell as a clutch (brakes, lsd and coilovers aswell for handling) but is there anything else iv missed?

Big turbo = big power so you need to manage the heat and manage the traction.

Handling wise, bearing in mind its traction in corners you need as well as a straightline then i would be installing:

• Audi TT Lower control arms
  
• Super Pro ALK
  
• Vibratechniks ower control engine mounts (otherwise you will have massive wheelhop/axle tramp with that anmount of power)
  
• Peloquin Hi-torque LSD/Wavetrac Hi torque LSD. (These are more aggressive than quaifes LSD)
  
• H&R Front and rear ARBs
  
• Semi Slick tyres
  

Id budget for a clutch as well if your going manual as it wont last long at these power levels. DSG is the safer bet as its much more capable of using the power without crumbling.

Engine wise I would be fitting the APR GTx28 kit. I wouldnt even consider the GT30 when you consider that with the 99 ron fuel and water meth you will make 470hp or without meth 420hp. APR have managed that 420hp whilst running the standard Gof R injectors etc. I know they are now running alot more since upgradeing the injectors to a much higher flowing system.

• Stage APR Stage 3 kit. This kit contains EVERYthing you will need for the stage 3 conversion from turbo, to larger MAF housings, RS4 fuel valves, Low pressure fuel pumps etc. http://www.goapr.co...._ea113_awd.html
  
• Uprated rods (pistons arent needed on this engine until MEGA power. Rods are the weak point on the engine at stage 3 power levels.
  

Now the dilemma i have is what turbo to use aswell k04 is tried and tested but i want to try and crack 400 ish so this mainly leaves the gt28 and the gt30, i know the gt28 will spool quicker and such but i quite like the idea of the lag on the gt30 making other cars think they have a chance before it kicks in........so does anyone have any personel experiance in any of the above or any advice?

I said to you before, around town a K04 will very likely be the quicker car due to it spooling much quicker than a GT28, however the GTx28 turbos spool much much faster than the GT28 models, but it still wont be as fast to spool as a K04. However if you have the space orare runningit on track the GTx28 is massively faster than a K04, and thats comparing the same tuner using the same car(ie APRs demo golf R).

A GT28 is no bigger than a K04 so don't bother. For everyday road use, K04 every time IMO. The spool is a lot more practical and it is heaps of fun. It really is the ultimate street turbo.

I currently run the K04 and it makes 330bhp, and I'm planning on water/meth injection later on in the year when summer arrives as a treat to myself. That should see me to around 360bhp.

You have to ask yourself is the extra 40+bhp on top of that worth the extra expense that a GT30 would command? I'm not so sure. I honestly think that lag would p155 me off day to day, however, that might actually help with traction. I've also toyed with the idea of getting my K04 hybridised, for a theoretical 380-400bhp as well.

Harry, thats nt true. Your comparing the older GT28 setups which were only running 380hp which your right is only +40Hp. They (APR) now use a GTx2876r turbo which makes MUCH MUCH more power than that and pretty much renders the GT30 uselsss unless your after 500Hp+.

At the latest JKM RR day the stage 2+ K04 cars were making 330Hp, the APR stage 3 car made 412hp and wasnt running properly either. So thats 80hp to start with. The biggest gauge in performance is to look at APRs Demo Golf R, i know i keep harking back to it, but ive driven it in both guises and jesus christ its horrifically fast now and would annihalate a stage 2+ K04 without breaking a sweat, and it was still on std K04 injectors. Its since had the fueling upgraded to a full stage 3 spec and is now another 30Hp more powerful!!

That Golf R when stage 2+ K04, destroyed the fastest 1/4 mile times of anyone in the UK on its first ever run with a 12.2 second 1/4 mile. No one has come close to it since even with equivalent tuned Golf Rs from other tuners such as REVO. In that guise it also ran a consistent 0-60 of 3.9 seconds. (on road tyres)

Since then they put the APR stage 3 turbo on it, but with stock injectors etc, upped power to 420hp and dropped over half a second off his 1/4 off time had a 6mph higher terminal iirc, and now does a consistent 0-60 in 3.3 seconds( on road tyres). So imagine what its doing now with 450hp!! Its now doing 30-130mph times comparable to most supercars.

There is simply no comparison between the K04 and Gtx28 setups now when it comes to outright performance. although i do think a K04 would be better for driving around town at lower speeds, but countering that the guys runing the stage 3 kits are all seeing better mpg now as well!!.

In your scenario, upgrading to a Gtx28 and all the ancils wouldnt be worth it because you have already spent the money to get a K04 setup. Someone coming through fresh on a stock engine wont have to worry about money they have wasted.

This is a stage 3 GTx28 with fueling upgrades in 98ron fuel

This is a stage 2+ K04, same software provider, same dyno.

Ill have the stage 3 Golf R next week. Ill post up some of the performance times it does if you want.

[Guest]

Is that the Golf R featured in VW driver mag Jan edition?

[vRSy]

yes it is.