Apologies matt1chelski I had read you initial replies and you have done 30k+ miles, I kinda lost track of the thread as it went off topic a bit.

So sorting through the thread:

matt1chelski running sachs clutch for 35k+ with no problems

Clarkey666 ran sachs clutch for 40k+ with no problems

Clarkey666 running Helix/jabba SMF for 20k with no problems

joelk2010 running sachs clutch, ok with remap, slipping with hybrid after 1 month

Big Jase ran Helix for 45k, 10k, 20k with no problems

Big Jase ran sachs for 20k, clutch ok dmf knackered

Thanks for the replies, I just want to get a feel for what uprated clutches are likely to last in the long term if I am going to invest another £1k on a clutch, I like the Fabia VRS and would like to keep it for a few more years but if I think I need to spend £1k on a clutch every 2 years I may need to re-think.

I was hoping someone may have had a Southbend silent SMF/clutch fitted and put some miles on it but no one so far.

I would like to add that I do not abuse the VRS, done 51104 miles in it so far over 3 1/2 years and apart from regular maintenance items the only things that have failed are the clutch, 2 x clutch slave cylinders, fuel temp sensor and passenger seat belt which I think is pretty good, I average 48.1mpg with the remap (recorded mpg full tank to full tank since I brought it), current rainsport2 tyres are on 20k miles with plenty of life still in them.

Apologies matt1chelski I had read you initial replies and you have done 30k+ miles, I kinda lost track of the thread as it went off topic a bit.

So sorting through the thread:

matt1chelski running sachs clutch for 35k+ with no problems

Clarkey666 ran sachs clutch for 40k+ with no problems

Clarkey666 running Helix/jabba SMF for 20k with no problems

joelk2010 running sachs clutch, ok with remap, slipping with hybrid after 1 month

Big Jase ran Helix for 45k, 10k, 20k with no problems

Big Jase ran sachs for 20k, clutch ok dmf knackered

Thanks for the replies, I just want to get a feel for what uprated clutches are likely to last in the long term if I am going to invest another £1k on a clutch, I like the Fabia VRS and would like to keep it for a few more years but if I think I need to spend £1k on a clutch every 2 years I may need to re-think.

I was hoping someone may have had a Southbend silent SMF/clutch fitted and put some miles on it but no one so far.

I would like to add that I do not abuse the VRS, done 51104 miles in it so far over 3 1/2 years and apart from regular maintenance items the only things that have failed are the clutch, 2 x clutch slave cylinders, fuel temp sensor and passenger seat belt which I think is pretty good, I average 48.1mpg with the remap (recorded mpg full tank to full tank since I brought it), current rainsport2 tyres are on 20k miles with plenty of life still in them.

A lad on seat cupra has a soutbend with smf!

Blew after 2 months with a paltry 320lb/ft! Was supposedly a 400lb/ft clutch!

Ripped the clutch plate right off!

Rubbish american tat

to Southbend then

to Southbend then

If I was to decide not to go with a particular brand of clutch because a forum user says he knows of a failure than I think I would be very quickly left with no options.

Of course failures are going to occur, be it through user error or a manufacturing defect. I think the general consensus with Southbend or Sachs (for instance) is that they are amongst the better manufacturers of uprated clutches for our cars.

I think this thread has become a bit of a doom and gloom thread for clutches!

Every thread Jase posts in lately even remotely related to clutches it's 'omg helix are the best everything else is **** cos a friend of a friend had one blow etc. etc.'

Every thread Jase posts in lately even remotely related to clutches it's 'omg helix are the best everything else is **** cos a friend of a friend had one blow etc. etc.'

I've had 3 helixs and a sachs

A mate is on his 3rd awesome one (this is a mate not a mates mate)

And my other 'mate' has a gtb2260 with a helix!

Devonutopia has posted on this forum about his strife with an american clutch. So im guessing southbend or possibly spec. And there's that thread on seatcupra!

Just trying to save people trouble in the future

I have been searching around trying to find a 1.9tdi that has had a Southbend fitted for any length of time and it seems hard to find, that does not mean they are bad.

If you search for helix they do always seem to get good reviews apart from the chatter noise on idle, don't think I could live with that.

Dark Hero has a southbend clutch kit fitted with a hybrid 130 turbo, contact him

Pictures

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=378566

Ok I've stopped reading half way so bare with me if this is a repeat.

Think uprated clutch is capable of X amount if used correctly. However if you misuse it, any amount of ratings will not meet ones standard.

This spike from 2k is similar to ask someone to do a 12 sec 100m sprint from cold. Yeah, you can do it a few times but I'm pretty sure you'll pull something very soon, regardless how fit you are.

I guess this is what's called mechanical sympathy.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

I cannot recommend the Sachs SRE clutch and 16lb single mass flywheel highly enough. Has been the best clutch I have had. Its still tough in traffic but nothing like the spec stage 3+ which it seemed couldn't even cope with a little diesel vibration....

No edit sorry,

So on the maps it will show a low on torque till you get to 2k then it ramps up quite abruptly. This is the instant sprint moment..

If you control that by easing the power in and then reach wot at 2500k then it will be better for the clutch.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

that might be why my clutch is loving my car at the moment. Laggy as hell!

Soon to be sorted on Thursday.

I've been running the southbend stage 2 daily clutch for a year now and it's been good, no problems at all

I cannot recommend the Sachs SRE clutch and 16lb single mass flywheel highly enough. Has been the best clutch I have had. Its still tough in traffic but nothing like the spec stage 3+ which it seemed couldn't even cope with a little diesel vibration....

Did you go organic or paddle Jase? Mines not bad in traffic at all either

Ahem, I forget. It was the most expensive one.....

I think it was a paddle one now I remember.

Dark_Hero - any idea on the mileage you have covered during the year with the SouthBend ? does it chatter on idle ?

JLneonhug - don't want to be argumentative but the sprinter example does not really make much sense, I am interested in a technical reason to explain why people always say don't go full throttle till 2500rpm, no one has put forward a valid technical reason that explains why.

If you would indulge me for a minute....here is a scenario to try and explain what I mean, you can substitute any value for the torque figures but one thing that is for sure the torque output at 2000rpm is less than the torque output at 2500rpm

Lets say to keep it simple and similar to a mapped VRS - 2000rpm = 250lbft torque, 2500rpm = 280lbft torque

Come up behind slow moving car, 5th gear, off the throttle coasting, gap appears in oncoming traffic, go to full throttle and overtake.

Example 1: VRS rpm have dropped to 2000rpm, you go to full throttle and overtake, clutch has to instantly transfer 250lbft from the engine.

Example 2: VRS rpm have dropped to 2500rpm, you go to full throttle and overtake, clutch has to instantly transfer 280lbft from the engine.

What is a technical reason why the clutch can handle transferring the higher 280lbft torque at 2500rpm yet it cannot handle the lower 250lbft at 2000rpm.

Also please take into account I have a sachs clutch that was advertised to be able to handle 410lbft torque, pushing 250lbft/280lbft/300lbft at any rpm should not be a problem as the clutch should be able to handle it no problem.

Ahem, I forget. It was the most expensive one.....

I think it was a paddle one now I remember.

Haha! Well 390 or 440 ftlbs :p?

I don't find the chatter too bad! Well, a woman did put her window up as I took my foot off the clutch at the lights yesterday

I've done at least 15+ k since getting it fitted. It doesn't sound too bad at all. I've been meaning to get a video for a while now

I've done at least 15+ k since getting it fitted. It doesn't sound too bad at all. I've been meaning to get a video for a while now

I didn't notice any increased noise really when you took me out mate!

Yeah there isn't really any increased noise. My brothers's DMF is louder lol

JLneonhug - don't want to be argumentative but the sprinter example does not really make much sense, I am interested in a technical reason to explain why people always say don't go full throttle till 2500rpm, no one has put forward a valid technical reason that explains why.

Hmm.. Sure, to prolong a life of a mechanical device one would want to keep the delta in force as smooth and low as possible. Why? because if the delta in force is great it will cause stress to the material whether it be heat, vibration or pressure. These stress can exceed the recommended limitations of the mechanical device, usually it just reaches the maximum limits and other safety features will kick in and aid it from fracturing or doing irreversible damage.

As a different example for high delta change in force. One can very easily warp and crack brake discs or even pads if the exceeded temperature and/or pressure simply by frequent forceful (but not maximum) braking, because they're made of metal alloy and they have a maximum temperature limit which can be reached by any end user not giving any mechanical sympathy to the product (letting it cool down etc).

Going back to clutch, its a similar case where by having a large delta in force it creates higher stress levels. One may not be pushing it to its maximum force levels but raising the pressure and/or increasing the temperature will 1) stress will wear out the material sooner due to having higher operating temperatures/pressures, 2) lower the maximum potential of the limit of grip due to higher operating temperatures/pressures.

Since Im an electronic person not a mechanical person I'll explain it in electrical terms as its easier for me (same principles). Higher operating temperatures will cause higher resistance in circuits, meaning more work is needed to push things round, more work created means more power needed to power it, more power means more heat generated, more heat means even higher operating temperatures due to power source it normally near load. More power means less efficiency of product as a whole, therefore cannot perform at its peak or optimum performance or last as long as designed (as its designed for a 'set' temperature). There is a nornimal operating window for products which ideally you want to be on the lowest end of if possible. Operating window is not a linear scale, its more of a curve, more to the higher extreme temperature the less efficient (longevity and performance) devices will run.

P.S. at around 2000k there is high delta in force (turbo spooling up or something magical), we call a spike. Just the way the car is designed, its to give non go goers that surge of power without wot. Its not meant to be designed to wot at 2000k. Your supposed to use your gears and the rev range if you want power (and prolong life of clutch)

Example 1: VRS rpm have dropped to 2000rpm, you go to full throttle and overtake, clutch has to instantly transfer 250lbft from the engine.

Example 2: VRS rpm have dropped to 2500rpm, you go to full throttle and overtake, clutch has to instantly transfer 280lbft from the engine.

Delta in force from 2000k-2500k is greater than 2500k-4000k.

In your example I would match speed, then, or at same time, match speed to gear (3rd is up to 70? 'happy' on ~40, 4th is up to ~90, 'happy' on ~50), then look for an opening for overtake. I wouldn't leave it in 5th as the lag/spike is not very predictable at the best of times.

From 2500k the torques and power band is fairly linear so power delivery is predictable, safer for overtakes.

What is a technical reason why the clutch can handle transferring the higher 280lbft torque at 2500rpm yet it cannot handle the lower 250lbft at 2000rpm.

Because when the car is in a higher gear, it is putting more force/wear through the transmission.

When you were little and you were riding your bike at say for arguments sake 5mph. Was it easier to speed up from that speed in 5th gear? Or 24th gear? It'll have been near impossible to speed up in 24th because you would be in the incorrect gear for the situation resulting in knackard legs for you, or in this case a knackard clutch for your Fabia.

Weather or not your clutch should have coped with it is another matter.

Thanks for the replies but I am still not convinced.

Using the Delta example:

Delta accelerating at WOT from 2000rpm to 2500rpm = 30lbft

Delta between closed throttle and WOT at 2000rpm = 250lbft

Delta between closed throttle and WOT at 2500rpm = 280lbft

This sums up my point, the clutch is expected to handle the most torque at 2500rpm so this in turn is putting it under the most strain so why does every one always say don't go full throttle until you are at 2500rpm when it is more mechanically sympathetic going to WOT at 2000rpm when the amount of torque the clutch is expected to handle is lower ?

I have never heard of any other car that people say you cannot use full throttle under 2500rpm, if this is correct it would point to a fundamental design flaw, if you fit an uprated clutch and still cannot use full throttle under 2500rpm that is madness!

Dark_Hero - thanks for the info on your SouthBend, good to hear it is all working fine

On the Seat Cupra forum that Big Jase linked to Dark Side have replied and said they have taken SouthBend clutches off their website and won't be supplying them at the minute, appears mainly due to the lack of support they are getting from SouthBend, they also mention they are developing their own SMF conversion for the 6 speed box which is very interesting.