As the title says,

I will be looking to upgrade the front brakes on my monte, does it share the same front hub set up as the vRS ? i.e. MK4 golf?

Had a search and can't seem to find anything :/

Thanks

Sean ????

Yes you can fit the 312's from a golf Leon Octavia etc

Sweet! Thank you!

I think the monte shares the same front brakes as a vrs just not the rears as they have drums.

Both the diesel n petrol 105hp Monte have the VRS front brakes (280mm iirc) but as you say not the as they have drums.

But bear in mind what Jabozuma has been telling us all. #

Bigger brakes equal longer stopping distances.

Sorry what?

Bigger brakes = stop faster. Simple.

Sorry what?

Bigger brakes = stop faster. Simple.

Putting big brakes front kit will increase your stopping distance in fact with nothing else done. It will make your car "feel better under braking" but perform worse.

As a google warrior you have to bow down to his knowledge and extensive experience of everything (literally everything)

Another common misconception is within comments by people who spend ££££ on front brakes. It boils down to a simple statement: " car feels rock solid under braking and I have so much more control now!". This is true, they do, and this is due to brake bias shifted to the front which results in such car behavior characteristics under braking (again, read the article). They do not realize their braking distance has lengthened.

But hey, "millions of flies cannot be wrong"

Millions of flies cant be wrong can they lol

That's utter tosh - I've done 2 brake upgrades on previous cars - both used 312mm upgrades and could outbrake my friends in the same cars at same speeds.

I guess racing cars etc should put smaller brakes on in that case...

What a load of 8u115h1t!!!

My old octavia had 360mm (AP 6pots) fronts & 330mm rears.... Now that could stop quicker from 100mph quicker than the OEM set up (312mm / 256mm) could from 40mph!!!!! What was I thinking fitting bigger brakes....!!!!!????

I will also be worsening my braking performance by fitting some 312mm brakes off a vRS mk1 octy.... To my little Monte.

Steve

vRSy is being an arse and knows exactly what was meant by the posts on Bigger Brakes.

Brakes grip the discs, Tyres grip the road. Or you want them to and you want to reduce speed, slow or stop.

Grabbing the Disc with a bigger brake pad gives a bigger braking friction area and bigger discs might cool better.

Over Braking and locked brakes makes for lost traction and friction between the Tyres and the roads.

So enough brakes can be fine and more brakes might be better.

Messing and not knowing your ar53 from your elbow does not make for better braking.

Changing for the better, Tyres, Fluid, Pads, Hoses and understanding the principles can improve things before bigger discs and Callipers if we are talking road use.

george

vRSy is being an arse and knows exactly what was meant by the psts on Bigger Brakes.

Brakes grip the discs, Tyres grip the road. Or you want them to and you want to reduce speed, slow or stop.

Grabbing the Disc with a bigger brake pad gives a bigger braking friction area and bigger discs might cool better.

Over Braking and locked brakes makes for lost traction and friction between the Tyres and the roads.

george

Who's being the @rse, George?

Just because you've got big brakes doesn't mean you're going to stamp on them and lock your wheels up

I've got 6-pot Brembos and 350mm discs on the Octavia and haven't locked up once - they pull the car up far quicker than standard

Or maybe I'm just one of those million brainwashed flies?

Bryan you know exactly what is meant as well and its nothing about stamping on the brakes.

Its the Brake Assist & ABS etc and still comes down to modulation and traction, retardation, deceleration and brake pad disc friction

and interaction.

If interested in talking about mods rather than getting digs in at Forum Members, along with the other cliques then maybe Mods can

get discussed on the Forum.

Light car overbraking, skipping over the surface and not slowing, rubbish tyres and if you get that brake friction and stopping power you want in the Brakes,

you do not always get that shorter stopping distance.

If you brake upgrade works then it will be like thousands of others that also work well hence why people upgrade brakes..

But its something that needs thinking on and doing right.

Tested on the Road then test on the Brake tester or vice versa.

george

Someone has made a blanket statement to say that upgrading front brakes alone will lead to longer braking distances

I, and several others who have actual experience of said front only brake upgrade are testament to say that is not right

The fact that those of us who have done it agree with each other does not make us a clique, far from it

Show me & others the post in this thread that vRSy refers to.

I never read a 'Blanket Statement' did you.

I read a qualified post and posts in the other thread and it leads on from other posts/threads.

Someone just chose to misrepresent what was said for effect as i read it!

Some others just jump on that Bandwagon, as i see and read it.

The new Seat Cupra Ibiza comes with a £1000 brake upgrade option.

Its going to be interesting to see exactly how better the braking distance stopping is between the 2 set ups,

not as just when up to temperature but from cold like when someone drives away from the house first thing in the morning.

Seat/VAG obviously fit the standard brakes to do the job and stop the 178 bhp car and they may give better braking in circumstances like harder prolonged use with the more sport biased brakes,

they are never going to be fitting unsuitable brakes as standard tho, that would be a bad thing.

Horses for courses if someone wants better brakes and understands Bigger does not mean better.

I too have big brakes on a big vehicle and in one emergency stop where i just had to slam the rakes on i ripped the asphalt up with the tyres.

Not going to happen in a mk2 Fabia, TDi or not.

george

George, look at the post quoted by Sy at post #7 above

It clearly states that bigger front brakes alone WILL increase braking distances

Seems pretty blanket to me, or am I missing something?

I read all the posts at the time and am not going to re-read.

vRSy did not like his mods that he has others do for him being questioned and is now just on a Troll like you do often when you do not like the answers or posts posted.

Subject should be played, not the man. seldom happens on this forum. JMO.

Pot kettle black, i do the same.

I read what is written tho and not what i think is written.

Then Quote or post in other threads because its getting back on the Forum member with snide remarks.

Say what you think and quote or link the complete thread, not what suits your mood.

george

You do what you like, some people take pleasure in arguing black is white, and no amount of reason will convince them otherwise

Interesting that the one criticising Sy likes to compare proper cars to go-karts

Maybe because he has track and racing experience of Karts and Cars.

Anyway,

big brakes are almost always better, except when they are not.

Tuned engines are always faster except when more often broken than not.

Always trust the Professional Tuner except when they are not to be trusted!

Do not trust the advice of people on Forums that you do not know,

or that have to trust Professionals to do their mods because they can not do them their selfs.

george

Anyway,

big brakes are almost always better, except when they are not.

Tuned engines are always faster except when more often broken than not.

Always trust the Professional Tuner except when they are not to be trusted!

george

Pure genius!

One of my favourite Briskoda posts ever

I've got more of a background in mountain bikes, but in the past I've upgraded brakes for better stopping, which included BIGGER rotor, sometimes two rotors on the same wheel, larger pads, and better hoses/fluid.

I would think this would apply to motor vehicles or maybe I'm just naive....

Sy, that is plain pathetic ...

You must be literate since you can type but obviously not able to read and understand the most basic car mechanics write up, well keep spending on pointless upgrades then if that's your hobby. Bigger brakes indeed look better, more "manly", perhaps that massages your ego and compensates for something? I do not know, never met you and now I hope I won't. Race cars upgrade brakes because they use tyres with massively more grip than standard rubber!! isn't that obvious to you Mr Done It All hence Know It All?

@OP

If you not upgrade your tyres or intend to apply full braking force from much higher speeds than attainable from stock car or want to extensively use it on track days there is no point in upgrading brakes, notwithstanding aesthetics of course:). Tyre has a very specific amount of grip in given circumstances. Brake calipers exert pressure on a brake disc resulting in braking torque generation. This retards wheels rotation and brakes the car. This torque cannot be bigger than torque required to fully arrest the rotation or you are skidding. Standard brakes provide enough braking torque in all circumstances, even with additional 500 kgs of luggage and passengers!

With better tyres more grip is available and more braking torque can be applied without resulting in skidding. That is all with standard car. Start lowering it ( changes dynamic weight distribution) stiffening up the chassis ( as above but more pronounced in cornering), putting better tyres on then it gets really interesting. Without EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution, which is an ABS pump hooked to individual wheel loads sensors and managed by a simple processor) it is simple. Lower the car's CofG that shifts brakebalance back And if You din't do anything with brakes car will feel rear end happy. So put bigger brakes at front to address that or increase existing brakes brake torque. With EBD the system is capable of adjusting to bigger brakes at the front ( I think, not sure what are the adjustment boundary limits) and could shift the balance to the back more thus increasing the performance of the whole package. Without EBD and with no other mods putting bigger brakes on the front which put more braking torque will increase braking bias at the front. Rear brakes will brake less. With no more grip available from fronts (same tyres) the braking distance will increase. However the car will have a "better feel under braking" as heavily front biased cars do. This is not something I established following lengthy testing procedure. I like to utilise the achievements of written word and rely on works by specialist in the field of braking systems theory and design and not local tuner shop "engineer" trying to shift his kit.

As for brake temps on track, if OEM are found to be over heating and warping ( if pads glaze it is generally cheaper to buy pads ) then bigger disc with bigger pads are the solution as they run cooler due to much lower piston pressure needed to produce the same braking torque. Friction is proportionally dependant on the contact area (bigger discs and pads), friction coefficient (pads) and clamping force (calipers). Hope it helps

I've got more of a background in mountain bikes, but in the past I've upgraded brakes for better stopping, which included BIGGER rotor, sometimes two rotors on the same wheel, larger pads, and better hoses/fluid.

I would think this would apply to motor vehicles or maybe I'm just naive....

Yes, this applies here aswell.

Bigger front-brakes = shorter stopping-distance.

vRSy was just mocking Jabozuma off a statement he did in another thread (and tbh, this is going lower then kindergarden-level for most off the ones who are involved).

Where are the admins when you need them?

EDIT : Jabos answer came in the meantime I was writing this .

EDIT 2 : just putting the important bit here in BOLD, mkay?

Edited 7 April, 201313 yr by Confide

I read all the posts at the time and am not going to re-read.

vRSy did not like his mods that he has others do for him being questioned and is now just on a Troll like you do often when you do not like the answers or posts posted.

Subject should be played, not the man. seldom happens on this forum. IMO.

george

Your right I was being an Arse, because I found the blanket statements of bigger brakes make brakes worse and stiffer suspension make a car corner slower etc completely comical.

What you wrote above about front brakes upgrade being a “MASSIVE” improvement could only be true if the factory brakes were designed completely wrong and simply not working. i.e breaking torque offered by the OEM brakes is below that required to stop the car. I can lock OEM brakes at any speed hence the braking torque is sufficient and there is no need for more unless you upgrade tyres, lower the car , change weight distribution. It is all about brake bias setup and not how big the front discs are lol.

I cannot be bothered to explain the lot in my own words so I’d rather leave it to a chap who designs breaking systems for BOSCH and racing outfits of all sorts. You are right again, my comments are ridiculous without the basic knowledge to understand the forces at work.

http://stoptech.com/...balance-matters

i completely disagree. it WILL not increase your braking distance at all. Thats a ridiculous comment to make. Even on stock tyres uprated front brakes make a HUGE improvement to the braking performance of the car, obviously your always going to be limited by the grip of the tyre, but unless you are locking your tyres every time you brake, in which case learn to drive, a front brake upgrade is a massive improvement. Adding grippier tyres just allows you to be even harder on the brakes and witness an even bigger improvement. I of course know this from personal experience of actually doing it.

Rear brakes upgrades are not needed at all. The Ibiza Race cars, VW Cup Polos, all run stock rear brakes with MASSIVE front brakes. Big rear brakes are not required on a FWD car, especially one as light as the Fabia.

Also since when does a brake upgrade equate to a massive brake kit? 312mm disc/caliper upgrades give a massive increase in braking performance, as will better pads and fluid.

Basically because he said can lock his standard brakes he has come to the conclusion that unless you upgrade the tyres and change the bias then the braking will be worse with better brakes. I agree that if you cant brake properly and lock your brakes because your inexperienced and lack the skill to brake properly, then yes your braking distance will increase, but bigger brakes doesn't mean you lock your brakes more just as Brimma and myself have said.

To say i was trolling in that thread id say was unfair. i was quantifying my answers with examples and personal experience, as are others in this thread.

Maybe because he has track and racing experience of Karts and Cars.

Hes going on his first trackday (briskdoa how fast@ bedford) very soon. i look forward to his extensive post about how the car was awesome and there is nothing that could be improved and everyone who has tried the vRS on track or in fast road terms, journalist or forum member is wrong because its amazing compared to his old 88hp Lupo lol

vRSy did not like his mods that he has others do for him being questioned

It wasnt my mods being question either. Most of what he said was aimed at big brakes on stock tyres. Well Im not on stock tyres, i run wider grippier tyres so his hypothesis doesnt relate to me, apart from when i ran the brakes on normal 205/40 tyres before i fitted them lol.

And of course I dont know anything about how to access an ECU, nor can i design a braking system, nor can i design and fabricate an intercooler, but crucially I dont profess to know about how to do it. What I can do is fit exhausts, intakes, intercoolers, brakes etc. What I do know is what gains of the actual Mods I have experienced, and since i have actually used my car in anger many times on trackdays and first hand experienced this in stock and modified guises i find it comical that a guy who hasnt modified his cars, or taken them on trackdays comes on then proceeds to inform us all of how to design brakes, intercoolers, access ECUs, diagnose piston issues and basically tell us that everything the potential thousands of people on this forum have experienced with brakes and suspension upgrades are actually wrong.

Were not all as fortunate to know absolutely everything about everything like our very own Jabo.

I've got more of a background in mountain bikes, but in the past I've upgraded brakes for better stopping, which included BIGGER rotor, sometimes two rotors on the same wheel, larger pads, and better hoses/fluid.

I would think this would apply to motor vehicles or maybe I'm just naive....

If with "original" you were not able to lock wheels at any speed you wanted then upgrade was indeed necessary. By writing about locking wheels I mean being able to exert enough braking torque to reach the limit of tyres adhesion and not braking technique of course