I only do it when slowing down or overtaking,

Never in pure acceleration - do u?

Not in the Roomy as only 5speed, but regularly shifted 4th to 6th in the fabia.

do use this occasionally when accelerating and is probably more suitable to a diesel with low down torque.

Situation were I do this is where I have accelerate fairly quickly, i.e. to overtake something, when I will jump straight from 3rd or 4th to 6th

Overtaking i understand.

But isnt going thru the gears and maxing each one more efficient?

As for slowing down, i used to do block changing - but

was there an argument saying engine braking better?

The main reason to block change from say 4-2 is by foot pedal braking more since brake pads/disc wear better thn trying to wear engine?

Accelerating I only skip shift if I'm cruising at V, and have reached V (or above to make a safer overtake) in second or third, and want to go straight to top.

Braking I often skip shift, but there are several advanced techniques that frown on using engine braking. Also, with modern brake systems you can put about as much energy through the front tyres as they can handle without the grab of extra engine braking from single shifts in mid-brake.

Done it on a few ocassions - both with accelerating and braking. I probably do it more when braking.

I think it comes down to the nature of the acceleration. If you are looking to accelerate briskly, fuel economy isn't really a priority and using the gears sequentially makes more sense, with perhaps a block change at the end to a cruising gear. Where you don't need to accelerate briskly, it may be that you opt to miss gears, but I can't think of a case where I'd do it ... but then I don't do pootling

Engine braking vs brake pedal braking (for a significant change of speed) is a slightly different debate but the two main arguments for it are that the foot brake operates all four wheels so you have stable, more predicatable braking (with brake lights and ABS available), and that the cost of replacing brake pads/discs is cheaper than a gearbox. I'm not sold on the second argument, which, while true, I'm not sure is really relevant. The first one, however, is a biggie

For small changes of speed, I'll often use engine braking, unless the following car would benefit from brake lights...

Chris

Edited 12 April, 201313 yr by ScoobyChris

For small changes of speed, I'll often use engine braking, unless the following car would benefit from brake lights...

Chris

I can drive following traffic a bit bananas in long processions where there's no chance/point to overtaking I think. I like to "play a game" where you see how far you can drive without using the brakes (includes downshifting for extra engine braking except on downhills), and can often manage several miles at a stretch. Of course, the whole "extend your vision" thing where you're looking for brake lights several cars ahead and coming off the throttle when you see them helps there.

Just re-reading the newspaper clipping, I think the underlying advice could be put another way, ie making unecessary gear changes wastes fuel. So for example, driving towards a roundabout, one approach is to go 5-4-3-2 (3 changes) with potential support from the brakes and possibly a bit of rev-matching to smooth out each change. In contrast, you could just use the brakes and only making a single gear change of 5-2 which has the same net effect, but reduces your workload and presents a more relaxed, flowing and efficient driver too (imvho )

Chris

Just re-reading the newspaper clipping, I think the underlying advice could be put another way, ie making unecessary gear changes wastes fuel. So for example, driving towards a roundabout, one approach is to go 5-4-3-2 (3 changes) with potential support from the brakes and possibly a bit of rev-matching to smooth out each change. In contrast, you could just use the brakes and only making a single gear change of 5-2 which has the same net effect, but reduces your workload and presents a more relaxed, flowing and efficient driver too (imvho )

Chris

I'll cheerfully agree with that, and that's the sort of situation where I skip downshift.

Of course, all of this slightly begs the question of what each of us consider to be a "good gearshift".

I'll start by saying that my ideal upshift is one that your passengers don't hear, much less feel. They may hear downshifts, but you still shouldn't "jerk" them.

Of course, all of this slightly begs the question of what each of us consider to be a "good gearshift".

I'll start by saying that my ideal upshift is one that your passengers don't hear, much less feel. They may hear downshifts, but you still shouldn't "jerk" them.

It's an interesting question and I suspect may well depend on who we are passengering. For me the "feel" is always the priority and so up or down the box the change must be silky smooth, even where there might be a significant change in revs. I think it's also nice for the change itself to be slick, quick and accurate, yet unhurried. The noise is less of an issue for me and pretty much all the people I drive with tend to be petrol heads who enjoy the sound of an engine being used properly.

For automatics, the challenge is smoothing out the changes imhe, especially when pressing on...

Chris

For automatics, the challenge is smoothing out the changes imhe, especially when pressing on...

Chris

I agree, to the extent that I've driven automatics that I disliked because they jerked every change, particularly on very light throttle.

First let's get a couple of brain-dead behaviours out of the way. Some drivers accelerate up to their chosen speed then step up through each of the remaining gears at a fairly constant speed. Some drivers use a pitifully small amount of acceleration in each gear, often completing their acceleration to cruising speed in top.

The reasoning for why brisk acceleration can save fuel starts by assuming that the journey is to be completed in a specified time. With brisker acceleration, it should be possible to use a lower average speed, which reduces the adverse effect of wind resistance on fuel economy.

If the journey can take longer then less brisk acceleration may give better results.

I think the underlying advice could be put another way, ie making unecessary gear changes wastes fuel. So for example, driving towards a roundabout, one approach is to go 5-4-3-2 (3 changes) with potential support from the brakes and possibly a bit of rev-matching to smooth out each change. In contrast, you could just use the brakes and only making a single gear change of 5-2 which has the same net effect

If there is overrun fuel cut-off then every rev-matched gear change uses fuel, and each one that is unneccessary wastes fuel.

Advice from an HPC gatekeeper:

HPC gk: "Have you reached your target speed?"

Me: "Ummm - well no, not really"

HPC gk: "Well, don't miss out gears unless you are happy you have reached your target speed"

Me: Never block changed since (going up the gearbox) unless at "cruising speed"

Going down, yes absolutely. Slow to target speed, one gearchange to appropriate gear when clear to go.

HTH

My father worked in the motor trade all his life, mainly on BMC vehicles and Jaguars. I was desperate to follow his footsteps and he was desperate I didn't but he allowed me to drive from the age of ten, have my own banger at 13 and work part time for a second hand car dealership at 17.

I probably drove nearly every car the dealer had, from Minis and Imps via tuned Cortinas to Jaguars (including an E type). The constant mantra of all the old guys was when you slow down to use the brakes as much as possible as brakes are cheaper to replace than gearboxes. This was during the era of fade prone drum brakes!

I was also taught to block gear change which I did during my driving test (which I Passed :-) ). I have since passed the IAM test. I can't see block changing is an issue. You have a driving plan, accelerate at an appropriate rate and select an appropriate gear. In our Focus 2litre manual that might mean 1,2,3, and 6th as she does it comfortably. Going down, 6th to 3rd is a normal change for me.

This approach works whether pressing on or going gently and has served me well on everything from Golf GTIs to big Volvos. The cars I've had with auto boxes almost use the same principle as they get into the gear they think most appropriate ASAP.

Of course the biggest exception is our other car which has a DSG box, it goes up through the gears quickly -it might hold 3rd and the drop quickly through the others into 6th. Although I love the box it irritates me as it insists on dropping into second and first on the over run in traffic!

Use block changing it's a art and more useful to you than heel and toeing which I'm sure we've all tried :-)

Huw

I do all of the above depending on the situation, block change down, block change up, go through each gear slowing down, go through each one accelerating. I even roll in neutral if I know that staying in gear would require throttle application. One thing I don't do is rev match unless racing/rallying and in need to keep within engine's power band.

One thing I don't do is rev match unless racing/rallying and in need to keep within engine's power band.

Not sure if there's some confusion here - rev-matching is to match engine and road speed to minimise the work the syncros need to do when the clutch is re-engaged and create a nice smooth ride. So for example, if going from 3rd to 2nd whilst holding a steady speed, you might:

- clutch down

- 3rd to neutral (revs starting at 1500rpm)

- blip or squeeze of throttle to lift revs to eg 2500rpm (ie 30mph in 2nd)

- when revs are correct, 2nd gear, clutch up

In theory, when rev matching you don't need to use the clutch and the gear should slot in like a knife through butter. Lovely

Chris

^^ Chris, this is good practice to learn how everything works, I used to have a Mini with a straight cut box and very rarely used the clutch other than moving off and stopping, it is quite easy to do the same in the Yeti, simply by rev matching and feeling for the right moment to slot into gear.

It is all about being smooth and this improves your smoothness when driving. My Dads old Foden had a crash box too and rev matching was a must.

@Jabo, no need to rev match in the Fabia

@Jabo, no need to rev match in the Fabia

You want to rev-match if you don't want that 'orrible jerk when it/you change gear, imho

Chris

You want to rev-match if you don't want that 'orrible jerk when it/you change gear, imho

Chris

DSG and flappy paddles Chris, just blip 'em up and down and cut your left leg off as it is not needed.

DSG and flappy paddles Chris, just blip 'em up and down and cut your left leg off as it is not needed.

Indeed - and unless you do something with your right leg (to rev match) you get a horrible jerk when it changes gear .. ime anyway...

Chris

Edited 22 April, 201313 yr by ScoobyChris

I haven't noticed any jerking when changing, the 7 speed is smooth, I don't think you can blip the throttle quick enough as the box changes quick.

I do both block change up and down.

If accelerating quickly on some brand's gear ratios if you top out in one gear, you can be at the starting range for 2 gears up. So you're not always gaining anything.

On the way down, if I want a steady slow down with minimal brake use I was taught go down each gear. For a more rapid slow down block change to get a braking "boost".

I've just started my IAM and had my initial assesment yesterday. The block change will certainly take some getting used to, especially in a 6 speed oiler with wide ratios and 350nm of torque!

From what I can gather so far it's a brakes to slow, engine to go approach, though my observer did agree block changing from 6th to 1st isn't practical in the vRS as I'd have the engine disengaged for too long if I wanted to avoid it stalling in 6th whn say aproaching roundabouts on nationl limit dual carriageways, so it'll be interesting what they teach me to do. He also said that after selecting the required gear for the hazard then it wasn't acceptable practice to still be off the throttle when letting the clutch out as I should scrub off all my speed using the brakes and at the point of clutch re engagement the thottle needs to match the road speed.... so loads of practice required!

I've just started my IAM and had my initial assesment yesterday. The block change will certainly take some getting used to, especially in a 6 speed oiler with wide ratios and 350nm of torque!

Sounds good and it'll all fall into place quite quickly - I think it's just getting used to it and feeling the benefits

From what I can gather so far it's a brakes to slow, engine to go approach, though my observer did agree block changing from 6th to 1st isn't practical in the vRS as I'd have the engine disengaged for too long if I wanted to avoid it stalling in 6th whn say aproaching roundabouts on nationl limit dual carriageways, so it'll be interesting what they teach me to do.

I think there's a thread about this with a few ideas, but in essence, I think there are two approaches which may work - treat the approach as two hazards (the first hazard being stalling and the second the roundabout) and run through the System twice and effectively selecting an intermediate gear, or brake later and more firmly such that you are clutch down for a much shorter period of time.

He also said that after selecting the required gear for the hazard then it wasn't acceptable practice to still be off the throttle when letting the clutch out as I should scrub off all my speed using the brakes and at the point of clutch re engagement the thottle needs to match the road speed.... so loads of practice required!

Yep the idea is that you arrive at the hazard in the correct position and at the correct speed such that you can then select the correct gear for the speed and negotiate the hazard. One of the eureka moments I had (which now seems quite obvious ) is that because each of the phases happens in sequence, you need to leave yourself an appropriate amount of space to process them before you arrive at the hazard, otherwise it'll get a bit messy and rushed

Enjoy!

Chris