DSG Adaption (Re-Adaption)....What is it?

[oldstan]

I hate to join the ranks of individuals who post about some sort of issue with their Yeti that isn't glowing with praise and hints at, what might be, a bit of a possible hiccup that needs sorting. You could be forgiven for thinking, if you look at certain contributor's posts, that the car is immune from ever going wrong and if you complain you're a dissenter and should be banished because their car has done X number of thousands of miles without missing a beat.

And to be honest, mine hasn't missed a beat either but it's it's going in to have a DSG "adaption" or a "re-adaption" or it's going to be "adapted"....or something with a similar sounding name. The car judders when taking off in second gear (by this I mean you're just rolling enough for it to have changed from 1st to 2nd.....for example, at a roundabout). It only does it in 2nd - and not every time, more so if acceleration is slightly more enthusiastic. It's not terrible but needs looking at. If the "adaption" doesn't work they'll change the clutch pack.

None of this is a particular problem but I see that Google will take me to stacks of posts by VW owners - and others - who have DSG boxes and talk about "adaption". Some seem to use Ross software and do it themselves. I wouldn't know a bit of Ross software from a Rossi ice cream so it's neither here nor there - but I would like to know what it means.

Answers on a postcard please.

[rockhopper]

Not a postcard. .......

Ross is referring to Ross Tech, an American company that produces VCDS or VAG.com. The software that can alter a million and one bytes in your cars ECU.

I think Adaptation is just resetting the gearbox back to factory settings. The software learns the way we drive and changes the way it changes gear.

As you are aware if you drive gently it will change up early and if you keep the pedal to the metal it will change up later etc.

I guess this is the control/Alt/delete for the DSG gearbox. :lol:

A TapaTalk enabled phone was used to write this...

[calmac]

Must admit I felt like this.......criticising Yeti on here is like farting in church.So many people get upset at your impertinence. Sorry, things do go wrong, not all dealers are that wonderful, and after 3 years I'm going to change. If that makes me a turncoat well tough titty. I may regret my new qashqai but I'll get another 3 year warranty.

[oldstan]

Not a postcard. .......

Ross is referring to Ross Tech, an American company that produces VCDS or VAG.com. The software that can alter a million and one bytes in your cars ECU.

I think Adaptation is just resetting the gearbox back to factory settings. The software learns the way we drive and changes the way it changes gear.

As you are aware if you drive gently it will change up early and if you keep the pedal to the metal it will change up later etc.

I guess this is the control/Alt/delete for the DSG gearbox. :lol:

A TapaTalk enabled phone was used to write this...

Thanks, RH....and yes, now you mention the bit about the software having to re- learn my driving style, I recall that the dealer's Service Controller did say that (but I'd forgotten) so thanks for that explanation in understandable language.

In the meantime I'm deliberating on the image of pew related flatulence. I might refer fellow poster, Calmac, to Luke 4:37. "The sound of a trumpet". Or Acts 2. "And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind".

[TMfSR]

I had a similar experience with my Golf Wagon, and tried a suggestion I found on some forum, which was to shift manually for a few days, revving the engine to about 3500rpm for the 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shifts. This seemed to "teach" the DSG programming that this was what was required, and the 2nd gear starts and associated juddering disappeared. I seem to remember the problem reappeared at least once, but was fixed each time with the above treatment. Apart from this little quirk, the DSG7 on my Golf has performed flawlessly over 3years/70k kms of ownership. I like the DSG so much that I am currently looking at a Yeti TSI 1.8 DSG over a Tiguan mainly due to the lack of DSG on the Tiguan spec that falls within my budget.

I am very new here, but have found members to be generally well balanced on the positives and negatives of the Yeti, unless in relation to somebody being deliberately provocative. I think members tend to sound effusive mainly because the Yeti appears to have many more positives than negatives.

[hmibennett]

I am very new here, but have found members to be generally well balanced on the positives and negatives of the Yeti, unless in relation to somebody being deliberately provocative. I think members tend to sound effusive mainly because the Yeti appears to have many more positives than negatives.

Measured and true. Offnote take note?

[oldstan]

.....and tried a suggestion I found on some forum, which was to shift manually for a few days, revving the engine to about 3500rpm for the 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shifts. This seemed to "teach" the DSG programming that this was what was required, and the 2nd gear starts and associated juddering disappeared.....

Thanks also for that. Can see the reasoning behind the process and half of me would think "I'll give that a go" (and I will) but the other half thinks "Should a transmission as clever as this produce a judder in 2nd just because I'm a generally steady driver who doesn't accelerate quickly from standstill?

[Michael G]

Copious notes being taken for imminent next service as ours is doing the same. Thanks oldstan.

[AlleyCat`]

A question:-

I've seen this mentioned here and elsewhere about the 1.2DSG.

Is this behaviour also evident in the diesel or is it to do with the DSG and this engine variant?

I'm looking at potentially buying a DSG variant so i'm interested to know if it is to do with the box or to do with this particular "pairing".

[900000]

As this is a car forum and as such on most car forums you will mostly find people with problems needing help... I've always thought the Yeti forum was just like all others in being open to offering help and must say I've never found this place to be somewhere where the owners just harp on about how good the car is and flame people who dare mention anything wrong with their cars... So I'm a bit perplexed by the few comments above (and the OP) suggesting problems can't be raised in the Yeti forum...

Be that as it may, sounds as if you have found a few solutions to overcome your DSG issue Oldstan. I've often wondered what my Yeti will be like, if it was to have a reset to the gearbox's learning over the last 23,000 miles I've had it?

[Michael G]

I think Johann is right. We love the car, but it's a machine, and like all such, can go wrong. When ours has, we've posted the experience. As things stand, we'd get another, definitely. Maybe a higher spec (we were desperate, and they had a demo car in with the DSG we wanted), but another Yeti, yes.

Interesting to wonder whether the 1.2 DSG "judder" is learning related. I do remember with ours (3 months old when we got it) how on certain roundabouts and junctions round here it would lag, then shoot forward, resulting in more than one skid mark, I can tell you

Certainly, I'm no expert or any sort of car buff, so I don't know whether it was the turbo, the DSG, both together, or neither - but I do know it doesn't do it now. Perhaps that was more driver learning than car learning, who knows.

Again, I do know the car didn't judder on moving off at a junction or roundabout, but does now. So adaption will be mentioned when it goes in soon. We're off to the Dordogne in it in July, and will want it tip top.

Edited 2 May, 2013 by Michael G

[oldstan]

Having had the 'learning' aspect raised as a possible cause I can perhaps see that by driving gently it wants to change in to 2nd earlier than a box which has been driven hard which wants to hang on to gears longer? Still can't really see why it judders though. As we all know clutches are designed to slip - and some do judder - but there's usually a reason for the judder....sometimes misalignment or oil on the surfaces maybe? However the dealer has very openly and readily agreed to take the car in without delay and get it sorted so, as noted earlier, it's not the end of the world and I'm sure it'll get sorted.

And, having raised this, clutch related, point I would like to recall an earlier topic - that of warranties - insofar as the provider of warranties are well known to exclude certain 'replaceable' part such as exhausts and brakes - AND clutches. If we're talking about possible clutch replacement here (remember I said they might fit a new clutch pack if the adaption doesn't work) then how does that sit with an extended warranty after the first three years and the provider looking at a claim for a new clutch pack and saying "Sorry sir, clutches are not covered". It would be the DSG, and it's associated components, (ie. clutch) that would be the main reason I might want to buy peace of mind by taking out an extended warranty. Clearly the dealer isn't suggesting that the exclusion clause is to be invoked now - and I'm sure it won't....I was just wondering how an insurance based cover provider might see it.

O

[AlleyCat`]

And, having raised this, clutch related, point I would like to recall an earlier topic - that of warranties - insofar as the provider of warranties are well known to exclude certain 'replaceable' part such as exhausts and brakes - AND clutches. If we're talking about possible clutch replacement here (remember I said they might fit a new clutch pack if the adaption doesn't work) then how does that sit with an extended warranty after the first three years and the provider looking at a claim for a new clutch pack and saying "Sorry sir, clutches are not covered". It would be the DSG, and it's associated components, (ie. clutch) that would be the main reason I might want to buy peace of mind by taking out an extended warranty. Clearly the dealer isn't suggesting that the exclusion clause is to be invoked now - and I'm sure it won't....I was just wondering how an insurance based cover provider might see it.

O

This is one of the things i was interested in with regards to DSG.

I've never, touch wood, had a clutch fail on a car, but then again i've never owned any form of automatic.

I've driven plenty but never owned one myself.

I'm conscious that warranty and wear items exclude things like the clutch.

It's interesting that this isn't an attempted "exclusion" as it would make me more comfortable with a DSG box.

[TMfSR]

Thanks also for that. Can see the reasoning behind the process and half of me would think "I'll give that a go" (and I will) but the other half thinks "Should a transmission as clever as this produce a judder in 2nd just because I'm a generally steady driver who doesn't accelerate quickly from standstill?

Agree with both points: I think the judder reappeared a couple of times in my case because I generally do not accelerate hard from a standstill, so it was not downshifting to first because it was learning how I actually drive rather than how I think I drive. I also agree that such an advanced transmission should not judder under any circumstances, but if that's what I have to put up with to get the other benefits of the DSG, then so be it.

For what it's worth, when my friendly local dealer let me have the demo Yeti for an extended two day test drive, I found the 6 speed DSG on the Yeti a lot smoother than the 7 speed unit on my Golf (of course this might be because it only had 1200 km on the clock compared to the 70,000 km on my Golf)

[mhjonesuk]

I had the same problem with the judder on mine, it seemed to happen intermittently especially when warm. It ended up with the dealer fitting a new clutch unit. seems the early tsi is a bit of a nightmare but still love it.

[jester911]

Hello Oldstan,

I have the very same problem, and now my Yeti is in dealer for 3 days for same reason.

for showing the problem to dealer and To replicate the problem, you can stand still on a uphill road and try to go forward very slowly, then the car will start to shake ( the mechanic did this to check if there is any probem, I had some doubts of showing and replicating the problem) but they know the problem well.

what they said, 7 gear dsg's has problems like that, and driving in heavy traffic and frequent stops can cause this after some time, and told me to use in manual or sport mode (clearly in sport mode, the clucth engages fully faster, but in D mode, the system is closing slowly to prevent judder and smoother gear changes, which shortens the life of parts)

I did not accepted this argument, since we all should be able to drive in D mode all the time.(this is not my first car with Dsg or auto gear box)

then, they accepted to check and update the software if any newer version was avaliable.

after the update, if the problem is not solved, they will change the clucth and corresponding parts according to warranty terms.

what I have been told is, the new clucth parts will be new ones , and updated different parts so the problem wil never happen again.

so I am waiting their test results with the software updated state.

another point is my car is at 20.000km, and almost 2 years old. and the guarantee period will end next month. some turkish forum users say that, when the parts are changed under warranty, the parts are provided by VAG and the dealer hourly costs are not paid, so dealers usually tend to postpone the change of parts under warranty, so they can charge you their labour costs when your car is no longer in warranty period.

its better to push the dealer and ask you to explain the problem the solution, and if anything does not sounds logical, this maybe a solution to your problem

I hope this helps ( and sorry for my french, I am not british)

[Michael G]

Jester, very helpful post, thank you. And your English French is much better than my Turkish English :clap:

[oldstan]

Thanks, jester911 for that. I'll be pleased to follow your progress if you come back with updates.

I'll take note of all you have said.

Mine isn't due in to the dealers for a week or so as the Service Controller is on holiday and I'm happy to wait for him to return as he knows myself and the car and I'm confident in his judgement.

Thanks.

Edited 3 May, 2013 by oldstan

[jester911]

Hello Oldstan, I am glad if I can provide any help, I will keep you informed about my progress.

by the way, the software guy was in training so I had to wait for him to come back to work too.(car door was needed painting, so I left the car in the service, so It can be painted)

thanks,

[rockhopper]

On my diesel DSG I have noticed over the last couple of days something I've not noticed before:

I moved off, at maybe 1-2mph, backed off the throttle for whatever reason, touched the throttle and the DSG has jumped into 2nd gear at no more than 2mph and the car has slightly lurched forwards.

I thought maybe I should get the dealer to reboot the software when it goes in for its 2nd electric seat pad and a new horn, as one of them is not working.

My Yeti has now done 36,000 miles of predoninantly town driving, where my lifetime average speed is no more than 20mph! It is 2 years and 5 months old now.

I do use manual via the flappy paddle when out on the open road, and 3rd gear is a great gear for up to around the national speed limit for single carriageway roads, and it pulls smoothly with lots of power to the redline. Keep it spinning at 3-5000rpm and it feels like a completely different beastie The fuel consumption drops to about 35mpg though....

[jester911]

I took my car back from the dealer, and they told me that they have updated the dsg software and turbo software (as there was newer version, still do not know what has changed)

my first impression is the judder is mostly gone, a few times, I felt a little shake ond 2nd gear, mut its definetely much better.

I will check and try to find if the problem persists.

the dealer also said that, if the judder is still there, they will change some parts. if its in time period of warranty period, they will do it for free, if its not, they will charge only %20 of the costs according to happy customer policy (meaning that this is a known problem caused by manufacturing)

if any news, I will keep you informed

[oldstan]

I took my car back from the dealer, and they told me that they have updated the dsg software and turbo software (as there was newer version, still do not know what has changed)

my first impression is the judder is mostly gone, a few times, I felt a little shake ond 2nd gear, mut its definetely much better.

I will check and try to find if the problem persists.

the dealer also said that, if the judder is still there, they will change some parts. if its in time period of warranty period, they will do it for free, if its not, they will charge only %20 of the costs according to happy customer policy (meaning that this is a known problem caused by manufacturing)

if any news, I will keep you informed

Many thanks. Will look out for your further info.

[mhjonesuk]

I took my car back from the dealer, and they told me that they have updated the dsg software and turbo software (as there was newer version, still do not know what has changed)

my first impression is the judder is mostly gone, a few times, I felt a little shake ond 2nd gear, mut its definetely much better.

I will check and try to find if the problem persists.

the dealer also said that, if the judder is still there, they will change some parts. if its in time period of warranty period, they will do it for free, if its not, they will charge only %20 of the costs according to happy customer policy (meaning that this is a known problem caused by manufacturing)

if any news, I will keep you informed

My dealer told me there wasn't DSG software as such just a general software package, also as you have identified the fault within the warranty period then it should be covered under the warranty, if they say no threaten Trading Standards and keep all the workshop receipts.

[oldstan]

My dealer told me there wasn't DSG software as such just a general software package, also as you have identified the fault within the warranty period then it should be covered under the warranty, if they say no threaten Trading Standards and keep all the workshop receipts.

Do they have the same "Trading Standards" as we do in Istanbul?

[mhjonesuk]

Oops should have read the location :S