So, I was out at some dealerships today looking at 4x4 SUVs.

Test drove quite a few different models today, all automatic, and every single gearbox felt TERRIBLE compared to the smoothness of the DSG.

So hard to decide if I like the cars because the standout point was always the gearbox letting it down!

So, I was out at some dealerships today looking at 4x4 SUVs.

Test drove quite a few different models today, all automatic, and every single gearbox felt TERRIBLE compared to the smoothness of the DSG.

So hard to decide if I like the cars because the standout point was always the gearbox letting it down!

Sounds like you need a Yeti DSG.

Even the Yeti DSG is not as good as the Fabia II DSG box, I have driven both and the dry clutch system in the Fabia is great, very slick through the gears and reasonably quick, for those slow to respond moments there is a flappy paddle on the steering wheel that gets jabbed!

I have driven the Yeti DSG, this is a lazier gear change than the Fabia.

Yeti will (probably) be the wet clutch 6-speeder? It is known that the dry clutch 7-speed unit in the Fabia is quicker to change gear than the 6-speed (DQ500?) in the rest of the VAG range.

Must say when I test drove my impending Fabia DSG the other day I have never experienced such a gearbox. I recently had a BMW 5 tiptronic which was a beast but never had the smooth change of the DSG. After driving off I was in 4th before I realised there'd been a gear change.

Depends which yeti DSG tho I guess. The 1.2tsi105 yeti can be had with a DSG - which I think is the same 7 speeder as found in the Fabia. I presume the diesel yetis have the old 6dpeed dsg.

I would have to say tho that the 8-speed ZF box as fitted to new BMWs and Jags is just amazing. In my opinion much smoother than the fab vrs box.

Even the Yeti DSG is not as good as the Fabia II DSG box, I have driven both and the dry clutch system in the Fabia is great, very slick through the gears and reasonably quick, for those slow to respond moments there is a flappy paddle on the steering wheel that gets jabbed!

I have driven the Yeti DSG, this is a lazier gear change than the Fabia.

I prefer the 6 Spdbox to the 7spd personally, but ultimately, I wouldnt consider buying the Mk1 Yeti as i think it looks weird. I likethe new model though, but Im looking at much bigger 4x4s like the Merc M Class, Jeep Grand Cherokee, X5.

Range Rovers box is great. Very smooth.

I think thats the same ZF 8 speeder as the BMW? Someone announced a 9 or 10 speed box recently; can't remember who..but its probably a ZF unit again!

I think thats the same ZF 8 speeder as the BMW? Someone announced a 9 or 10 speed box recently; can't remember who..but its probably a ZF unit again!

I think i remember reading in a TG mag that there will be an Evoque with a 9 speed automatic. Can't quite see the point there in that..?

I prefer the 6 Spdbox to the 7spd personally, but ultimately, I wouldnt consider buying the Mk1 Yeti as i think it looks weird. I likethe new model though, but Im looking at much bigger 4x4s like the Merc M Class, Jeep Grand Cherokee, X5.

I have an old Range Rover if you want it? it is a P38 4.0 V8, it needs a little TLC and has been stood for two years, open to offers BTW it is an auto

On my drive I have a VW with 6 speed wet clutch DSG, a Skoda with 7 speed DSG dry clutch and a BMW with ZF 8 speed auto.

The 6 speed dsg is better at slow speeds than the 7 speed dsg but the 7 speed feels crisper once above 20mph or so. The 8 speed ZF box blows them both out of the water though, it's smoother than both dsg's, has no low speed hesitancy, responds instantly to commands, feels just as quick to change up and far quicker to down and can block down change. From 8th to 2nd is possible on a single downshift.

Even Chris Harris says it's a game changer and gave it his component of the year award last year.

The ZF8hp can't be fitted in fwd cars though, ZF have a new box out for transverse engine fwd/awd cars the ZF9hp. Range Rover will be the first to use it in the Evoque but many other manufacturers are testing it.

Zf, VAG and Hyundai all have 10 speed autos in development.

Cheers

Lee

I think thats the same ZF 8 speeder as the BMW? Someone announced a 9 or 10 speed box recently; can't remember who..but its probably a ZF unit again!

Only the very latest Range Rovers and Sports have the ZF8HP older models have the 6 speed box which is still a smooth unit but not as crisp to drive.

On all Skoda's 1.8 tsi petrol and smaller will have 7 speed dry clutch. 2.0tsi and bigger will be 6 speed wet clutch.

Similar for diesels 1.6 tdi can use the 7 speed dry clutch, 2.0 tdi needs the 6speed wet clutch.

It is due to the 7 speed having a low 250nm maximum torque limit.

So the Yeti can have either dsg fitted depending on which engine is fitted.

VAG does have higher rated dry clutch dsg that Skoda will get once it's been rolled out across the Golf and Passat.

Cheers

Lee

Before I settled on the vRS with the amazing DSG box, I test-drove a Fiat 500 auto. It uses an ASG gearbox (I think the same type on the Citigo?) and was absolutely awful to drive. It's basically a regular gearbox with an automatic gear change and clutch. Very slow indeed with massive lurches between changes. The nail in the coffin for me though was it stalling during the test drive making a right turn into the dealers across traffic!!! Needless to say, I decided not to get one. My Fab vRS has the best gearbox I've ever used.

So it appears the DSG 6 or 7 speeds are indeed the best on cars which are in the Fabia price range?

if we stick to the twin clutch boxes (unlike the ZF) the DSG 7 is awsome...... I have read alot of reviews of the new clio that have statements like "the geabox is not as good as VAG's example" , and have pupils who have bought both ford and citroen DSG boxes, and said mine is much better.....

lets face it VAG have had a lot of time to perfect this box

DSG is simply the best twin-clutch box bar none. All other manufacturers are trying their best to emulate it but not many get close.

Only other auto box currently on sale that I would want would be the ZF 8-speeder. Granted its not twin clutch but doesn't matter when the changes are so smooth and fast.

DSG is simply the best twin-clutch box bar none. All other manufacturers are trying their best to emulate it but not many get close.

Only other auto box currently on sale that I would want would be the ZF 8-speeder. Granted its not twin clutch but doesn't matter when the changes are so smooth and fast.

indeed if we are talking non twin clutch I have read "awsome" reports of the ZF 8- speeder, especially from the new Jag F-Type......

ZF8HP - 90kg + 9L of oilsporting 5 clutch packs, four planetary gear sets and 200ms upshifts (smothness comes from clutch slippage)

DSG7 dry - 70kg + 1,7 of oil with 2 dry clutch packs with standard "manual" gears set sporting 8ms upshifts (smoothness comes from super quick changes)

I think I know which one I am voting for

ZF8HP - 90kg + 9L of oilsporting 5 clutch packs, four planetary gear sets and 200ms upshifts (smothness comes from clutch slippage)

DSG7 dry - 70kg + 1,7 of oil with 2 dry clutch packs with standard "manual" gears set sporting 8ms upshifts (smoothness comes from super quick changes)

I think I know which one I am voting for

Try both then vote again.

The 90kg version you quote handles 700NM of torque, that version is fitted to turbo charged V8 BMW's and Range Rovers. ZF also do 450NM and 300NM versions which are lighter and a 1000NM version which is heavier (Bentley Mulsanne, Rolls Royce Phantom/Ghost etc.)

The ZF8HP45 (450NM) used in most smaller BMWs weighs 76kg.

The 7DSG is rated at 250NM weighs 70kg

The 6DSG is rated at 350NM weighs 93kg

The ZF8HP feels just as quick to change up as the DSG and feels faster on down shifts and as 1st and 2nd up to 1200rpm and reverse use the torque converter there's no jerkiness at low speed. And you don't get the hesitation at roundabouts and junctions like you sometimes get when the dsg decides to change down just when you hit the gas.

I'd choose it in any car over dsg and even over BMW's own dct.

Cheers

Lee

Edited 26 May, 201313 yr by logiclee

If it means shelling out for a V8 BMW or a Range Rover to get a better gearbox than our humble Fabia, I don't see the point of the argument

If it means shelling out for a V8 BMW or a Range Rover to get a better gearbox than our humble Fabia, I don't see the point of the argument

As the ZF8HP is only fitted to longitudinal engines with rwd/awd then the smallest cheapest option is the BMW 116i.

But the issue is the technology, ZF are releasing the ZF9hp this year which is for transverse engine fwd cars. This is really aimed at Golf size upwards but who knows.

ZF says it's more economical, cheaper to produce, more compact and lighter than their own 7 speed dual clutch box.

Cheers

Lee

Edited 26 May, 201313 yr by logiclee

Probably the biggest petrol head on the planet Chris Harris from Pistonheads. Here's his take on the new autos v dual clutch debate

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26917