DSG Box

[LRB]

Anyone else find the DSG box 'niggley' on their VRS?

Mine annoys the hell out of me, clunking ever so slightly, overevving going downhill and a hesitation between 3/4 that feels like fuel starvation?!

Or is it just me? Iv done 9000 miles in my Blackline now and yearn for a manual again?! HELP! hah!

[Floridadaz]

Mine has done 9000 miles and I love it. If I was being super critical then I could say the change from first to second is not as smooth as the other changes, it is a bit hit and miss reversing up hill off my drive (needs very gentle throttle). I love the fact that it engine brakes going downhill unlike a normal auto and it takes over if I miss a paddle change up after pre changing down for a quick overtake.

[LRB]

It annoys the guff out of me when going down hill. I wouldn't do it in a manual! Don't get me wrong I like the box when it's mega under load and your giving it some stick and its only 'minor niggles'.

Does yours do the clicking when setting off on tickover? Should I be worried?

[pipsyp]

I personally think you'd learn to really appreciate the DSG if you did go back to a manual car. Dont get me wrong, the right road and the right car I love manual cars but to live with day to day im a real convert.

Once you've learnt its quirks its really rather good and yes the quirks are largely down to it being a robotised dual clutch manual rather than a traditional slusher; does a great job of imitating a traditional auto but its not perfect.

I find D a bit lazy at times in my 170 CR; doesnt help when pulling away as I do find it suffers a bit of turbo lag anyway but its perfectly fine for day to day driving. In manual its insistence to change down to 1st when rolling irritates me (my old 7 speed Fabia vRS didnt do this) and the insane downhill engine breaking in D can also be a bit annoying. What is nice with the 6 speed vs 7 speed is that due to being wet clutch its capable of engineering in clutch slip to help smooth out pull offs and gearchanges.

However stick the car in S if feeling lazy or put in M, turn off the ASR, get on the paddles and modulate the throttle so youre only ever pushing it say 60/70% and in the diesel particularly take car not to push the revs much past 4k and its a completely different animal. Not sure if its just me but ive found it feels a bit dead if you use full throttle without using kickdown, believe because the throttle map as standard is designed to give max go at approx 60/70% travel; the rest of the travel serving no real purpose at all; also the diesel really benefits from being short shifted through its torque range.

[LRB]

Excellent reply! Cheers! Makes for very interesting reading. Ill have a play with the box, do have a dabble with the paddles every now and again and do find the box responsive and like it but for normal driving I just find it mundane. There is a remedy for it! Manual next time and wait until I am in my 40's for an auto lol!

After speaking to the head of the dealership who also drives one he stated that the dual clutch was a bit of an overkill on any engine less that 300bhp? I claim ignorance as my technical experience of gearboxes are standard torque converter types and manual boxes fitted to old buses so couldn't quite get to grips with the principle of DSG at first. Obviously the dealer statements came after purchase

[Keith Lard]

Anyone else find the DSG box 'niggley' on their VRS?

Mine annoys the hell out of me, clunking ever so slightly, overevving going downhill and a hesitation between 3/4 that feels like fuel starvation?!

That's how mine started. Then things got much worse! Stalling, REALLY violent and clunky changes. Changing at the wrong time, very jerky when pulling away in 1st.

Multiple software updates, mechatronic unit replacement and 10+ dealer visits it still wasn't right.

Selling it and going back to a manual was the best thing I ever did. You'd have to brave to own a DSG after the warranty expires.

[LRB]

Oh it's not staying! Love the car but like the new octy better. Diesel VRS with a manual box and if I like it keep it after the 3 years!

[booke23]

Selling it and going back to a manual was the best thing I ever did. You'd have to brave to own a DSG after the warranty expires.

Practically every single issue with DSG gearboxes on this forum seem to be with cars that are less than a year or two old......and the majority of these (although by no means all) seem to be 7 speed dry clutch boxes.

This would indicate that production faults seem to be the major cause of problems with DSG's rather than the wear and tear. So paradoxically, I think when the DSG gets out of warranty, you're home and dry!.......mine is 7 years old/75,000 miles and going strong.

[Auric Goldfinger]

My DSG is a dream 2 years old and 14300 miles on the clock. No problems with the wife's either ( Fabia Vrs DSG ) 2 and a bit years old and 11k on the clock

[booke23]

My DSG is a dream 2 years old and 14300 miles on the clock. No problems with the wife's either ( Fabia Vrs DSG ) 2 and a bit years old and 11k on the clock

Right on!

Edited 6 June, 2013 by booke23

[Perc]

I have the "dry" 7 speed, not the "wet" 6 speed found in the OP's 2-liter... but I figured I might as well add my two cents.

I'm an "automatic convert" and I've owned three conventional automatics before. This is my first DSG. You absolutely can't fault the DSG box once the car is moving. Shifts are quick and seamless, manual control is crisp and quick, etc. It's just stop and go traffic that sometimes makes me want a normal automatic again. I wouldn't mind having a modern 6-8 speed automatic again, that's for sure.

And I've had zero issues with it, unlike some others.

[countryboy]

Mine is quite good, I do find the change down to second can be a bit jerky but apart from that I think it is a great box. Dual clutch is the way to go, even with less than 300 bhp. If you go to You tube you should be able to find videos of it working. If not it is starting to appear in tractors, type in "John Deere Directdrive"

and that will give you an idea as to how it works.

I will probably be going for a manual next time only because I tow a caravan and find I have better control over reversing when I directly control the clutch myself.

Ian

[Perc]

I will probably be going for a manual next time only because I tow a caravan and find I have better control over reversing when I directly control the clutch myself.

Ian

I find it even nicer when there's no clutch to control at all. A normal automatic, that is. It simply doesn't have a clutch. Just apply as much throttle as you need until it starts to move. No risk of wearing anything out, and there's no clutch robot that gets in the way like in a DSG.

DSG is probably the worst possible choice for towing heavy loads. I know that now after driving one for 6,100km (as of yesterday). Good thing I don't ever plan on towing with the car. If I ever became a caravanner, I'd buy something with a big stonking diesel and a proper automatic. Most probably a V70 D5 AWD.

Edited 6 June, 2013 by Perc

[pipsyp]

In certain respects the 6 speed is better than the 7. I do find with mine sometimes that its wanting for a 7th overdrive gear but the wet boxes ability to slip its clutch plates when pulling off etc does smooth things out somewhat and for that alone I prefer it to the 7 speed dry box I had in my previous Fabia vRS.

To be fair I think if youre after smoothness a ZF 7/8 speed auto box probably cant be beaten....thats why all the big german cars tend to have them!

Also from my experience the manual gearshifts in a lot of lower end VAG group stuff isnt all that hot; every Fabia, Polo, Golf etc never been particularly great; given I could never shift as fast or efficiently as a DSG and Im not stuck stiring a transmission like a spoon in a pudding bowl its worth every penny for me. That said if the MK3 vRS TSi has a nice manual transmission I could well revert back and save 1100 quid in the process.

Edited 6 June, 2013 by pipsyp

[countryboy]

You're right there Perc. A normal torque converter transmission with a big turbo diesel is the way to go for towing. Unfortunately my budget won't stretch so something like the Volvo.

Ian

[LRB]

My DSG is a dream 2 years old and 14300 miles on the clock. No problems with the wife's either ( Fabia Vrs DSG ) 2 and a bit years old and 11k on the clock

That's why I chose the DSG over manual. Did like the VRS I test drove and listened to what you and ChrisRS said at the Malthouse meet all that time ago! It's just long term not ignited inside for me. Still prefer manuals. Had a drive of my old Fabia the other week and it just made me miss it! Perhaps I'm just an oddball! Haha! Liking the discussion though!

[marcusthehat]

(i)After 12 years/250,000 miles I found the relatively primitive 5 speed cable operated gearbox in the TDI Galaxy to be VERY slick, I suppose when I rationalized that the car was living on borrowed time I relaxed. By times, despite dipping the clutch of lifetime habit, I MUST have been effectively executing clutchless changes, VERY fast and seamless.

Excellent fine control with the dry clutch too.

(ii) The proper torque convertor transmission in the Steyr Puch Van is also brilliant, simply load the throttle to overcome whatever resistence, being able to pull away in low ratio and change "on the fly" to high was also very useful.

(iii) The DSG is absolutly brilliant once moving, I CANNOT fault it in this respect.

However for low speed manouvering it is a PIG.

Requires either a "torque convertor" element for low speed work.

OR

The same as the otherwise clutchless tractor transmissions, an "inching" pedal in lieu of a clutch pedal.

(iv) Or fluid cooling

(v)Or infinitely greater "fuzzy logic" computing power with commensurate mechanical interaction and control.

SIMPLES

Edited 7 June, 2013 by dieseldogg

[duro]

My Octy 1.6TDI with 7DSG is the 3rd auto I own. Previously, during my "commuter" years, I had an old Fiat Panda with CVT "belt" auto and then a Yaris with torque converter auto. So, I experienced all kind of auto tech (apart from the "robotized" one).

Each technology has pro's and con's.

"Belt" CVT auto is supersmooth with no change perception for... there're no gears! Also very smooth in creeping and manoeuvre. Con's are the unpleasant "over-revving" feeling when you push hard (and I do) and the relative un-fittability to high torque engines.

Torque converter auto's are smooth in every gear but you do need many gears to get reasonable efficiency. Old 4-speeders were real drunkards (my 1.3 petrol Yaris barely achieved 30MPG). Also, they're good at managing high torque and power but they waste too much power from the engine: this is why they were never popular in Italy, a relatively poor country with high car-ownership tax based upon engine displacement and high cost of petrol.

Robotized 'changes are cheap (after all they're simple manual ones with a small "robot hand" to shift the gears) but AFAIK they're not pleasant to use: too much lag during changes. They've become popular here in Italy in the last few years, probably 'cause – the vast majority of Italian drivers being tech-ignorants – they are confused with the high-tech Formula 1 'changes... at bargain prices!

I think DSG could be the best alternative to torque converters. Higher efficiency and a bit less comfort at a comparable cost. Probably torque cons will stay for a long time in the big, expensive cars where fuel efficiency is not an issue.

As far as "jerking" is concerned, I noticed too that 1st and 2nd are a bit "spaced" while all other gears are wonderfully un-detectable. You must keep an eye on the tacho to see the shifts.

I think it's quite an inherent charateristic and not a real project fault. My best friend has a very recent BMW 2.0TD with 7-speed DSG and he says exactly the same (and we're talking different cars and different projects).

Edited 7 June, 2013 by duro

[Chappers.]

My thoughts after 7 months living with my Blackline DSG: now I'm learning to live with it's idiosyncrasies it's starting to grow on me more. D is extremely lazy and makes the car feel slow & unresponsive. S is okay for A roads. Manual is better for B roads and going for a blast - however it is not a patch on a proper manual gearbox for spirited driving.

I'm not desperate to swap it any more, however when the time comes to eventually trade it in (and the new vRS does look very nice) then I will probably return to a manual box. I only ended up with the DSG by default as there were no manual hatches left by the time I ordered it.

I have said before though that when it comes to cars I am a bit of a control freak and I like to tell a car what to do - not the other way around.

Most of the time the DSG is very smooth (I agree about low speed manoeuvring being a bit hit or miss sometimes - I think the secret is to take your time and not try to rush the gearbox "creep").

To sum up? For many the DSG will be great - for those that enjoy really driving a car, setting it up for the bends and balancing it through them etc, then the manual is the far better option. Horses for courses I suppose and it all depends on what is more important for the individual user.

[k.young]

That's how mine started. Then things got much worse! Stalling, REALLY violent and clunky changes. Changing at the wrong time, very jerky when pulling away in 1st.

Multiple software updates, mechatronic unit replacement and 10+ dealer visits it still wasn't right.

Selling it and going back to a manual was the best thing I ever did. You'd have to brave to own a DSG after the warranty expires.

Keith, mine has 566,000kms on it and it is still working like a dream!!!!

[marcusthehat]

Humph!

Kilometeres

from the top of my post lunch 2 pint London Pride addled, lying in bed with the wife, head

only .........erm..........about ................hmmmmmmm...............................340,000 (ish) miles.

Well 50 is 30, an then.............guess the rest.

But in seriousness the wet 6 speed appears to have been better engineered than the dry 7 speed.

A "wile" pity fae my perspective.

cheers

marcus

Edited 8 June, 2013 by dieseldogg

[k.young]

351,696 miles (according to google)

I would call that fairly reliable. I think VAG should have it back from me to pull it apart and see whats left!!!

[duro]

Hmmm... 556,000 km... At my currrent yearly driving pace, it'll take me about 61 years.

At that time I'll be 115 and probably close to have my license not renewed because of age.

So, why worry?

[Herschel]

6spd DSG in a vRS CR 170 here.

43,400 miles in just under 3 years.

Awesome gearbox, love it.

[JasonBroad@blue]

I like my DSG VRS for town and motorway but at least half my driving is done on open A and B roads and here I am not so keen. As a veteran Manual driver I like to be in the right gear going into a bend or hill not halfway round/up. Maybe I am just a control freak but for that sort of driving I switch to manual and use the paddles. The only annoyance there is right turns out of T junctions. I pull away. Get half way out of the junction.Go for second and its half way around the wheel where I cannot easily reach it. I haven't yet figured out an elegant solution to this yet