Wiring Additional Driving Lights

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Hey guys,

 

I just need a little bit of help.

 

I am putting a couple of Hella Rallye 4000 Compact driving lights on the front of my Yeti. I have 4000km to drive next month and we have our fair share of night wild life running around Australia so any improvement in vision helps.

 

I know a few others on here have driving lights as I've seen the pictures but I cant seem to find the threads.

 

I have Bi-Xenons and I need to know what wire to tap into to run to the relay that will run the extra lights?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Happy Days.

[Banjobach]

Hi Joel, I never had much of a problem prior to the Yeti and Canbus wiring, but do wish you good luck. Just out of interest where are you journeying? I ask because I'm heading east in a few weeks time and wonder if our tracks might cross.

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Hi Joel, I never had much of a problem prior to the Yeti and Canbus wiring, but do wish you good luck. Just out of interest where are you journeying? I ask because I'm heading east in a few weeks time and wonder if our tracks might cross.

I'm heading Bathurst from Darwin. Then on to Sydney and Nowra for a service then Canberra the next day and back to Bathurst. Then back to Darwin via Julia creek.

Happy days.

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Happy days

[Joel SHOEMARK]

As I have bi-Xenons. The wire I find will run the servo or solenoid that moves the shutter. Not a wire that powers the lights.

Happy days.

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Happy days

[Llanigraham]

1/ I've looked into this but have been warned that adding an additional load to the main beam circuit, even to power a relay could be "dodgy"

 

2/ How are you going to mount the lights? I've not found a way of even mounting a pair of 5" Hella Driving lights!

[manxskoda]

To be in Bathurst on the 10th to 13th October, one can dream!!! even better if Mr Whincup leads the pack home . Sorry for going off-topic

Tony

[JCP]

If you will have longish periods without traffic you could take a feed from the sidelight to energise a relay fed from the battery and controlled by a separate switch-not as user friendly as an automatic connection to the main beam feed. The xenons are powered at more than battery voltage so you may be able to take a switching current from the switch side to operate a relay but as Graham says it may affect the canbus, since a relay draws very little you may be lucky. You may find someone on a Seat Leon or Golf v forum who has found a work around.

[Llanigraham]

If you will have longish periods without traffic you could take a feed from the sidelight to energise a relay fed from the battery and controlled by a separate switch-not as user friendly as an automatic connection to the main beam feed. The xenons are powered at more than battery voltage so you may be able to take a switching current from the switch side to operate a relay but as Graham says it may affect the canbus, since a relay draws very little you may be lucky. You may find someone on a Seat Leon or Golf v forum who has found a work around.

Possible, but that might be legal in Australia, but certainly wouldn't be here.

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Seems I'm going into uncharted territory, going where no man has gone before. So here is my first plan.

 

I have Bi-Xenons so I'll be tapping into not the high beam wire but the wire that opens the shutter.

 

In order to attemp to get around throwing an error with the CANBUS I am going to use a transistor to operate the relay that will in turn operate the lights.

 

The coil in the relay has a load of 85ohms or about 2 watt or 150 milliamps at 13.2 volts and this possibly will be enough to throw an error with the CANBUS. The Transister only needs 0.03w or 0.002 milliamps. Hopfully the very small power drain of the transister will be undetected by the CANBUS.

 

The transistor can only handle about 500 milliamp on the Emiter and Collector side which will be plenty to power the coil in the relay but hardly enough to power a set of driving lights.

 

So high beam power from the wire that powers the shutter will switch the transistor and the transister will power the coil which will switch the relay on and power my driving lights from the battery. 

 

Wish me luck guys.

 

I'll be embarking on this journy in the next few days. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

Happy Days.

[Brijo]

^ Cor!  Remember when you had to clean up the contacts now and then with a bit of sandpaper?

[Joel SHOEMARK]

^ Cor!  Remember when you had to clean up the contacts now and then with a bit of sandpaper?

 

 

Yep. I remember when I broke a set of points on a 1979 Toyota Corrola. I left my wife with the car and hitch hicked the 200km to the nearest town for a new set of points which happened to be a pretty common set across a few makes and models. Then hitch hicked back out and changed them with a flat blade screw driver.

 

These days you need a computer degree to tell the car wether its a diesel or a petrol. My old Corolla always new it was a petrol.

 

Oh and remeber those days when you knew if a head light bulb was out because it was dark or the indicator had blow because the others started to flash fast. Lights of the dash to tell you a bulb has blown is a bit over rated.

 

Happy Days.

[Llanigraham]

I shall be interested to see how this works, but starting to talk about transistors is now beyond my understanding. I've wired up loads of driving lights in the past using the main beam (Blue on lots of British cars) wire to feed the switching side of a relay, but that appears now to be doubtful on we non-HID equipped cars. Shame as I have a nice set of 5" Hellas in the shed.

 

Still intrigued on how and where you are going to mount these lights. Can you please clarify?

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Still intrigued on how and where you are going to mount these lights. Can you please clarify?

 

I'm just going with one of these http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/SCA-Driving-Light-Bar-Universal.aspx?pid=219098#Cross. It's basicly a peice of Aluminium angle thats polished up to look pretty.

 

I know its far far from the best but I am one limited in time I have left to mount these and I dont wont to cut up the plastic bumber at all.

 

I am hoping to get enough time to add a spacer between the plastic bumper and the metal cross bar that is about 50mm behind it.

 

Happy Days.

[Great Yeti]

Seems I'm going into uncharted territory, going where no man has gone before. So here is my first plan.

 

I have Bi-Xenons so I'll be tapping into not the high beam wire but the wire that opens the shutter.

 

In order to attemp to get around throwing an error with the CANBUS I am going to use a transistor to operate the relay that will in turn operate the lights.

 

The coil in the relay has a load of 85ohms or about 2 watt or 150 milliamps at 13.2 volts and this possibly will be enough to throw an error with the CANBUS. The Transister only needs 0.03w or 0.002 milliamps. Hopfully the very small power drain of the transister will be undetected by the CANBUS.

 

The transistor can only handle about 500 milliamp on the Emiter and Collector side which will be plenty to power the coil in the relay but hardly enough to power a set of driving lights.

 

So high beam power from the wire that powers the shutter will switch the transistor and the transister will power the coil which will switch the relay on and power my driving lights from the battery. 

 

Wish me luck guys.

 

I'll be embarking on this journy in the next few days. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

Happy Days.

 

Hi Joel

 

Not quite uncharted territory. I made the circuit that you describe about two years or so ago. I used it to provide a feed for the second rear fog lamp on our Yeti. I can confirm that it draws < 1ma from the canbus and does not register with it or throw any problems regarding warning lights etc.

 

A very simple circuit with only 5 components: 2 Signal diodes (Back EMF blocking) 2 Resistors and 1 small NPN transistor.

 

If you need a circuit diagram, or I can help in anyway just let me know.......................Tony

[Llanigraham]

Joel,

Hella EU make a similar item, which I was sent by a member, but I was unable to securely mount it to the front bumper and was doubtful about screwing back into the bumper support bar, because of the air bag sensors.

 

Tony,

Would your system work with my method of wiring driving lights? In the past, using a standard 4 contact car relay, I have done them:

 

Feed from main beam circuit to one of the magnet contacts

Other magnet contact to earth

Battery to one switch contact

Lights (2x 55w) to other switch contact

 

If it does I'd be interested to see the circuit diagram, although whether I would fully understand it.......................

[g6zru]

Seems I'm going into uncharted territory, going where no man has gone before. So here is my first plan.

 

I have Bi-Xenons so I'll be tapping into not the high beam wire but the wire that opens the shutter.

 

In order to attemp to get around throwing an error with the CANBUS I am going to use a transistor to operate the relay that will in turn operate the lights.

 

The coil in the relay has a load of 85ohms or about 2 watt or 150 milliamps at 13.2 volts and this possibly will be enough to throw an error with the CANBUS. The Transister only needs 0.03w or 0.002 milliamps. Hopfully the very small power drain of the transister will be undetected by the CANBUS.

 

The transistor can only handle about 500 milliamp on the Emiter and Collector side which will be plenty to power the coil in the relay but hardly enough to power a set of driving lights.

 

So high beam power from the wire that powers the shutter will switch the transistor and the transister will power the coil which will switch the relay on and power my driving lights from the battery. 

 

Wish me luck guys.

 

I'll be embarking on this journy in the next few days. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

Happy Days.

 

How about using a solid state relay Joel?

 

Fred

[Great Yeti]

 

Tony,

Would your system work with my method of wiring driving lights? In the past, using a standard 4 contact car relay, I have done them:

 

Feed from main beam circuit to one of the magnet contacts

Other magnet contact to earth

Battery to one switch contact

Lights (2x 55w) to other switch contact

 

If it does I'd be interested to see the circuit diagram, although whether I would fully understand it.......................

 

Hi Graham

If I understand you correctly - By "Magnet" I am assuming you mean the relay coil, then, basically the answer is yes.

 

The purpose of the transistor circuit is that it is used to switch the relay ON & OFF by means of a very small current. Typically about 1ma (1/1000 of an amp) For comparison, a typical Fog or Brake lamp bulb would draw a little less than two amps (2000ma) and a single 55 watt headlamp bulb would draw around 4 amps (4000ma). A variance between one bulb or another will be greater than the 1ma that this circuit draws. So you can see that using a transistor circuit will prevent a CanBus from seeing the relay as it is isolated from it by the transistor and prevent any errors being shown by it. 

 

In deciding what transistor is suitable, you just need to know what power the relay you are using draws (milliamps [ma]) I used a small 10 amp relay [i had it to hand] with a small coil current [around 65ma], and my circuit has been happily powering it up for more than two years with no problems whatsoever. It can of course be used to power up relays and for all sorts of things and avoid CanBus errors.

 

If anyone wants a copy [PDF] of the circuit diagram - it really is simple to make, or needs any help with it - send me a PM with an email address that I can send it to and I will be glad to help if I can.........Tony

[Llanigraham]

Tony,

PM on the way

[Great Yeti]

Graham - reply sent

 

Roger - email and attachment sent

 

Fred - Solid state relays tend to be VERY expensive! and hard to find. But you are right - they probably would be okay providing the "Trigger" current was low enough and they usually are

 

Regards..............Tony

[g6zru]

Fair comment Tony. When I last used them they were a gift so cost wasn't a consideration. :wonder:

 

Fred

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Good news guys.

 

It works. (Bench test at least)

 

I'm at work tonight so photos will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

My multi-meter has a blown fuse so I couldn't use it to test the current draw of the base lead on the Transistor and my watt meter I use for RC stuff only goes down to 0.1amp and it doesn't register.

 

If my calculations are right, it should be about 2 milliamp. I tested the relay and it takes about 150 milliamp so 2 milliamp is looking good and shouldn't be a problem with the CANBUS.

 

I'll post all the pictures (there's plenty) tomorrow and I'll bring it to work with me tomorrow and leave it on test for 8 hours just to make sure the resisitor doesn't get too hot or anything like that.

 

Happy Days.

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Ok. 2 x Diodes 1N4001, 1 x 5.6K Resisitor and a 2N3904 Transisitor.

Grab a relay holder. Mine looks like this.



2 legs will be the switched legs, the other 2 will be the coil legs. Grab the coil legs and cut around them with a razor. Then pull he sheath back of a little to expose the wire. Like this



Get your Diode. Diodes are clever little things that allow power to flow one way but not the other. In this circuit they dont do anything while the power is flowing and working but once power is turned off they flow power in the opposite direction and short out the circuit. This short basicly burns of the residual power and prevents it surging back through the ECU or somethig silly like that. I doubt the head light circuit for the car would be that sensative but what the hell, they cost $0.30. Mine looks like this.



Take it and connect it to a batttery and a multimeter like this.

You find that you have power one way, turn it around and there will be no power.




Mark one side so you know which way is which. The diods should be marked with white on one end. When the white end is going to the negative, it should flow power.
Oh and put some heat shrink over it so it wont short on anything.

Now mark one leg of your relay holder so you know which side is negative and positive. I have marked positive. (a bit silly but I marked negative on the diode).

Now solder the diode to the exposed wires. Make sure that its in the direction that WILL NOT flow power. Like this.

 

 

Then put on some heat shrink like this.

 

Edited 11 September, 2013 by Joel SHOEMARK

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Ok. Now the Transistor, resisitor and next Diode.

 

Solder the resisitor to the middle (Base) leg of the Transistor and the put on some heat shrink. Make sure you push the heat shrink up all the way so it doesnt short when you start bending the legs around.

 

 

 

I have to get ready for work now. I'll post up some more once I get to work.

 

Happy Days.

Edited 11 September, 2013 by Joel SHOEMARK

[Joel SHOEMARK]

Righto, I'm at work now hard at it. Obviously.

 

Next solder in the diode across the transitor for the Coller to the Emmiter legs. Make sure the negative side of the transistor is on the Emmiter leg. With the flat side of the transistor facing toward you the Emmiter leg is on the left. This is just another bit of protection for surge from the coil. I know I have mentioned it twice and I have installed the diodes but as I said before I do not think they are needed at all. One good thing with instlling to diode across the transistor is it makes it structurally stronger.

 

Solder the diode like this.

 

 

Then cut the negative wire of the coil and solder the transistor in the cut section with the Emmiter leg toward the relay. Like this.

 

 

Then get a peice of large size heat shrink and seal it all up like this.

 

[Joel SHOEMARK]

And the end result is this.

 

The relay on its own took 124 milliamp to close the switch. I tested it like this.

 

 

It fluctuated a little to 124.7 Milliamp but who's counting?

 

 

And with the circuit installed, I tested like this.

 

 

And it uses 2.06 Milliamp.