Fuelly lists the M135i as averaging 24.9mog which is frankly crap for a relatively light car. The VRS TSI yields almost 50% more according to real user figures. The M135i also costs £10k more for a similar spec, so in price terms it's similar to comparing the VRS to a Focus 1.0 Zetec. Strange choice comparing a practical family hot hatch to a Boxter, an M3 and M135.

You sure?

Of the 2013 vRS MK3 petrols on fuelly the best one has averaged 29mpg over 4 fill ups which is frankly shart given its 45 mpg book figure. That average also takes account of a number of diesel cars on there whose mpgs massively skew the average.....which still isnt particularly great at 31.2mpg.

The M135i, a car with 100 more horses (that actually doesnt have to cost a great deal more than a vRS with a bit of spec as it goes) and being completely frank would leave a petrol vRS behind like its sat still averaging 24.9mpg really isnt so bad is it, being about 12mpg worse than its book figure and not 15.

Also having a family member who has had a 135i and an M135i I know they are capable of early mid 30mpg easily with a half sensible right boot, the M135i currently averaging 33mpg over only a approx 5K miles and its driven hard now and again.

My point being for a (lets face it) not overly powerful or overly stressed bang up to date turbo petrol 4 cylinder it doesnt appear to be very efficient; just the same as the Fabia vRS 180hp and claimed 45mpg average and for the majority getting nothing like the book claim even driven half sensibly.

My point with reference to the porsche and BMW etc was not a direct comparison but making a point again that a 4 cylinder engine that makes peak power at 4.5k rpm with a rev limit of 6.5k isnt the most exciting thing in the world, high power high revving NA motors (or high revving turbos for that matter) are where its at for me.

My point with reference to the porsche and BMW etc was not a direct comparison but making a point again that a 4 cylinder engine that makes peak power at 4.5k rpm with a rev limit of 6.5k isnt the most exciting thing in the world, high power high revving NA motors (or high revving turbos for that matter) are where its at for me.

I agree that the VRS TSI engine is not the most sporty feeling or sounding 2.0 4-pot in the world. 10 years ago I had an Impreza which revved past 8K rpm and sounded like half a spitfire, but now I prefer a bit more refinement and probably drive a bit more sensibly too. Regarding peak the power, 220ps is available from 4500 thru 6200rpm. I prefer it this way to having a.single 220ps spike at 6200rpm. Even the old Subaru began fading (losing power) above 7000rpm, long before the it's 8250 redline. Below 3000rpm the VRS would murder the scoob, but from 4000rpm it was in a different class (even before remapping). They don't make engines like that anymore due to emissions.

Edited 9 January, 201412 yr by Orville

Agree totally - one man's meat is another's poison and all that - what is it with some on Briskoda? Why the aggression which seems to creep into so many threads? I've not experienced any other forum as bad for this. We're all car enthusiasts!

You're right no need for aggression or calling into question someone's intelligence especially on a site where car knowledge varies massively, sadly mine is at the lower end of the spectrum so I can well imagine some sighing going on when reading my posts.

On the other hand wouldn't it be dull if we all agreed with each other and thought the octy 2.0tdi estate was the best model, which it is cos I bought one!!

Friendly debate is the name of the game surely.

Edited 9 January, 201412 yr by jonnybgood

I agree that the VRS TSI engine is not the most sporty feeling or sounding 2.0 4-pot in the world. 10 years ago I had an Impreza which revved past 8K rpm and sounded like half a spitfire, but now I prefer a bit more refinement and probably drive a bit more sensibly too. Regarding peak the power, 220ps is available from 4500 thru 6200rpm. I prefer it this way to having a.single 220ps spike at 6200rpm. Even the old Subaru began fading (losing power) above 7000rpm, long before the it's 8250 redline. Below 3000rpm the VRS would murder the scoob, but from 4000rpm it was in a different class (even before remapping). They don't make engines like that anymore due to emissions.

Yeah the WRX STI's (assuming thats the car) were really rather impressive at the time. Back in 99 a mate of mine at Uni (who came from serious money) had a brother who visited and had a 98 WRX STI version 5 saloon and had the opportunity to go out in it a couple of times. It was a long long while before I went in another car that impressed me so much....was so quick in a straight line (even standard 280hp form; probably making 315/320 in reality) and cornered like nothing else id experienced. Shame cars like that at those sorts of prices cant be had anymore. Jap streetfighters are a lot of fun.

A mate of mine has a really honest imported 300zx Twin Turbo manual running about 430hp as a bit of a plaything, he might buy a newish GT-R at some point and keeps teasing me that he'd let me have it for 3 or so grand. I dont have the money to throw away on a toy right now but its a seriously tempting proposition.....rear drive, no traction control, all or nothing power delivery, brilliant!

Edited 9 January, 201412 yr by pipsyp

Slightly more relaxed! Where? You have to change gear earlier in a diesel as it runs out of grunt. You get more torque from a diesel low down. That's about it.

People are under the mis apprehension that a diesel is cheaper to run than a petrol, well that might be the case when you cover in excess of 20k a year.

The amount of people driving around in diesel cars on 12-13K a year or less are kidding themselves, even taking into account the lesser depreciation of a diesel the figures simply don't add up.

That's a very sweeping statement. Not everyone is blinded by mpg and many drivers will take into account the whole picture.

Need to admit that's one thing I can say Tdi do have is a more relaxing drive than most petrols as change of speed tends to be of a more effortless event if a bit slower

Agree totally - one man's meat is another's poison and all that - what is it with some on Briskoda? Why the aggression which seems to creep into so many threads? I've not experienced any other forum as bad for this. We're all car enthusiasts!

So very true, car buying and owning is a personal thing, what's right for one night not be for another

this won't settle any disputes, but it is interesting

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG1u9ldS_X8

Agree totally - one man's meat is another's poison and all that - what is it with some on Briskoda? Why the aggression which seems to creep into so many threads? I've not experienced any other forum as bad for this. We're all car enthusiasts!

I know what you mean mate, I paid £20 at the weekend to upgrade to FREEDOM and I'm already starting to regret it....

Agree totally - one man's meat is another's poison and all that - what is it with some on Briskoda? Why the aggression which seems to creep into so many threads? I've not experienced any other forum as bad for this. We're all car enthusiasts!

Totally agree with your comments. I followed a link posted to the Seat forum on a thread by a guy on a DTUK tuning box. It was 5 pages long and there was only one agressor on there. some threads on here it's difficult to get past 5 posts without the handbags being swung which is a shame.

I know what you mean mate, I paid £20 at the weekend to upgrade to FREEDOM and I'm already starting to regret it....

 

My main sports car forum is the German based (but English language) Rennteam.com. a lot of extremely knowledgable multi national members and there is hardly ever any bitching, sniping or criticism. I've been a member there for 10 years. it has no sponsors, run and funded entirely by the editor and a team of excellent moderators.

 

I joined briskoda when I was thinking about buying the new Octavia to learn more about the brand and from Skoda enthusiasts. I got some very good points and learned a lot. Sadly it's wearing a trifle thin now.

Edited 10 January, 201412 yr by Timoctav

I think the problem is that a forum is for open discussion and people will sometimes say things you dont like or disagree with. Some people are out of line granted but on the flipside those that bite and speak out of turn in response dont help matters.

Also Skodas are at the affordable end of the mainstream used car market (just about) and without wishing to sound derogatory does attract people from all walks of life, some more courteous than others.

I enjoy a bit of banter and like responding to posts where im told im wrong and I know im not but try to respond it in a fair and reasonable manner, or sometimes its just healthy debate. Some dont of course and overstep the mark or just cant accept any level of criticism about their car or what theyve said about something which is rather sad.

For those it really upsets id suggest if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen perhaps, its only a Skoda forum after all.

The banter on this forum is no different from any other forum, i quite enjoy a heated debate especially when you are watching it from the side. I'm sure there are more specialized forums out there for the more knowledgeable car enthusiasts which are courteous and polite because most of the people on there have similar knowledge levels, but even so, i'm sure from time to time disagreements occur. Any forum where you have a large membership and wide ranges of knowledge and culture is going to attract plenty of disagreement. The key is to try and stay within acceptable boundaries, in any case there are moderators in the background who keep an eye on things and take steps when things go to far.

Jesus, has anyone been upset by opposing views on here? Really!! If you don't like it here you should try this... http://www.waccoe.com/index.php?showforum=55 or indeed many other football forums, you can get savaged in the blink of an eye, sometimes by rapier terrace wit or a complete moron. This forum is positively gentle.

 

I have noticed a distinct difference between the OCTY MK II and MK III forums, seems to more camaraderie on the MK II section. Might be to do with the fact that folks over there have been into Skodas for much longer and are not so new to the marque.

Boy oh boy, this changes subject in the blink of an eye!! Yeah some people sometimes go too far, but its rarely too much of a problem. Forum is still quite friendly i think. Admittedly not the friendliest i know of, but still fiendly. Anyway, no harm in a bit of banter is there? Come on 'Harry Hates Diesels', wheres your boxing gloves? Winner takes the diesel home!!!!!!

Petrol is rubbish you'd have to be an utter moron to order the petrol over the diesel............

Boy oh boy, this changes subject in the blink of an eye!! Yeah some people sometimes go too far, but its rarely too much of a problem. Forum is still quite friendly i think. Admittedly not the friendliest i know of, but still fiendly. Anyway, no harm in a bit of banter is there? Come on 'Harry Hates Diesels', wheres your boxing gloves? Winner takes the diesel home!!!!!!

One of the finest cars I have been in happens to be powered by a dirty stinking filthy diesel. A 5 series BM. One of the crappest cars I have ever been in was powered by a petrol engine..... A Skoda Estelle! Granted it was only slightly worse than a Morris Ital/Marina.

Ah but you still hated the engine under the BMW. I wouldnt say dirty stinking filthy. Certainly i prefer the smell of burnt diesel than i do petrol. Oh,and no knocking any Morris cars. Otherwise thats round 2!! The fact you stepped inside an old Skoda. Boy oh boy you were brave!!

Ah but you still hated the engine under the BMW. I wouldnt say dirty stinking filthy. Certainly i prefer the smell of burnt diesel than i do petrol. Oh,and no knocking any Morris cars. Otherwise thats round 2!! The fact you stepped inside an old Skoda. Boy oh boy you were brave!!

The Estelle was owned by a mate of mine back in the 80's. We were descending a hill called East Chevin into Otley. A hill I had and have been down many times since, in a variety of cars. tProblem with the Estelle is that it couldn't. After hitting an undulation it just bounced into a wall and very nearly up ended.

 

I actually drive a diesel CR vRS Octy now and have been for five years. It has served me well, but I can't wait for my petrol one to arrive. Ordered 8th Oct, god knows when I will see it. Beg to differ on the smell of DPF'd diesel. Horrible vinegar type wiff.

Both types of fueling have their pros and cons and some preference one or the other or are fairly impartial.

Id like to think most people would agree that diesels have come a long long way from the days of 1.8 TD engines in Ford Escorts and Mondeos, even the 1.9 TDs in PSA group cars....and they are still quite easily (though the tide is changing slightly) considerably more frugal than their petrol counterparts in real world driving conditions.

A good comparision is a 335d and 335i BMW. My Dad bought an E92 coupe not long after they came out and his choice was between the above two. Hes not hard up so running costs werent a massive part but he still chose the d. It was bloody amazing at the time too, 286hp and 427lb/ft torque in a diesel 3 series was quite staggering and it did late 30/early 40 mpg all the while he had it.

However as good as it was and he kept it a while I dont think he ever really bonded with it emotionally and chopped it for a 135i which is hugely preferred, after a while away from BMs now has an M135i and Im not sure he'd buy another diesel again. I guess diesels still dont make fabuluos performance cars....they do however make excellent half rapid cheap to run family cars and I guess thats one of the primary arguments to chosing diesel in a car like the Octavia, does make a lot of sense in my mind as in any variant its not what I would classify a high performance vehicle, a half quick family car at best even in TSi vRS format. If the vRS had alot more power id sing a different tune but 220hp nowadays isnt that much and doesnt make for a wildly quick car IMO.

Diesel usage for private vehicles has surged within Europe during the past 20 years due to cheaper running costs and huge advances in engine refinement. As demand for derv has risen, so has the comparative cost vs petrol. In 1990 diesel was ~5% cheaper than petrol, in 2000 it was on par and from 2010 derv has cost 5-6% more. What this shows is that as demand for derv increases, so does the price. In 10 years time the gap between diesel and petrol prices may be large enough to warrant choosing petrol due to petrol's cheaper costs . If the US and Far East countries seriously begin to switchover to diesel, then the price will rocket.

 

However, 10 years from now Electric cars should be more competitive and begin to make a dent in fossil fuel powered vehicles. Eventually there will be a cutoff point when both diesel and petrol are far too impractical to run, but this may take another 20-30 years, and "persuasive taxation" (higher fuel duties) being imposed by States.

 

My advice is to enjoy petrol and diesel whilst you can. It has a limited shelf life (especially within Europe and California), and will be sorely missed once the politicians have overpriced it to levels out of the reach of the average person. In 50 years time fossil fuels may be for military use only.

 

I am pretty sure that the VRS TSI will be my last delve into petrol goodness, so I intend to make hay.

 

 

edit: below is an historic price comparison.

Edited 10 January, 201412 yr by Orville

With the imminent imposition of EU 6 regulations, diesel cars will have a surcharge of £1k on the price tag, additional to the current price premium, just to pay for the technology to comply with these new rules. As much as i respect diesel power the increasingly hard job diesel engines will have to comply against petrol, the former is forecasted to decline rapidly in popularity against petrol, this will be accelerated by the ever increasing efficiency of petrol engines.

 

Petrol engines have made huge gains in the last few years, taking Porsche as an example, a 2006 Boxster S with 295bhp burns more fuel and emits higher CO2 than the latest 550bhp  Carrera Turbo S. Amazing.

If the vRS had alot more power id sing a different tune but 220hp nowadays isnt that much and doesnt make for a wildly quick car IMO.

I remember the late 80's when 100bhp was the standard for hot hatches, and a 0-60 times around 10 seconds were considered pretty rapid. A decade later the hot-hatch bar was raised to 150-170bhp, and now 200bhp+ turbos are the absolute minimum for a family hatch/estate to be considered hot.

 

I must say that my first hot-hatch, a Fiesta XR2 felt pretty hot at the time despite having just 90bhp.

 

However, 220bhp is still pretty fast for the average person who runs about in their ~130bhp Focus/Golf, and more than fast enough for most UK roads. I guess it depends upon perspective. Lewis Hamilton would likely find the VRS and M135i rather dull and boring, even though the M135 is a killer compact hatch.

Solution is easy. Practical, economic MKIII daily VRS combi. Then run a fun fizzy "fast" petrol as a second car. Best of both worlds! But because you really can't have both, as dervs go, this current crop aint half bad for what they are.

 

Just owning a second car for that reason will easy go on to cost more than the difference between the derv and petrol mkIII vRS ever would. 

I remember the late 80's when 100bhp was the standard for hot hatches, and a 0-60 times around 10 seconds were considered pretty rapid. A decade later the hot-hatch bar was raised to 150-170bhp, and now 200bhp+ turbos are the absolute minimum for a family hatch/estate to be considered hot.

I must say that my first hot-hatch, a Fiesta XR2 felt pretty hot at the time despite having just 90bhp.

However, 220bhp is still pretty fast for the average person who runs about in their ~130bhp Focus/Golf, and more than fast enough for most UK roads. I guess it depends upon perspective. Lewis Hamilton would likely find the VRS and M135i rather dull and boring, even though the M135 is a killer compact hatch.

Absolutely agree Orville, one of the bigger issues is power to weight ratio nowadays with cars receiving ever more tech and safety equipment causing them to baloon.

What is a bit of a shame is how the vRS has not really gained much of an advantage in weight reduction unlike the rest of the more mundane O3 range....for example despite having on 150 horses a boggo 2.0 TDi O3 is easily as fast as a O2 vRS TDi as its recieved a v mild power increase and lost alot of weight.

Not a fantastic car but a Saxo VTS with only 125hp only weighs 935kg or so....as a consequence has a v healthy power to weight all things considered and explains why in reality one of these things could run sub 8 0-60's.....and its known they can run an indicated 140mph (so probably over 130 real mph).

Also of course I wouldnt ever state that a 220hp car isnt fast, certainly is far from slow but current hot hatches have really raised the bar again in the same way a 120hp car isnt fast against something like the vRS, the vRS isnt particularly quick up against something like an S3 or M135i.

I guess anything would seen dull after driving a 800-odd horsepower F1 car, not sure my body could take that :-)

I've gone for the petrol this time round, didn't think the math worked on only 12k p.a. and the DSG works so well with the petrol, Urber smooth.  Whilst everone else hasn't mentioned it, I'm hoping the petrol will be a little gentlier on its front tyres compared with the diesel, I seemed to be forever scrubing the outside 1/3 of the fronts tyres on my Mk2 TDI, must be roundabouts I guess, could slowdown for them I suppose but, 225 do grip so well.

 

Regards

T