It cant be argued pipsyp. Harrysprout has exagerated things slightly. Petrol always a better car to drive?? Afraid not. Depends on the individual. Some individuals who arent petrol heads may prefer the drive of a diesel. A petrol is more 'fun' to drive (if thats what you want), but not necessarily better to drive overall. I know someone who has driven petrols for a good few years now, and is likely to carry on driving petrols. But he prefers the drive of a diesel.

I don't think I have exaggerated in the slightest. Petrol drives better. Back to back comparisons with the new vRS told me so loud and clear. No raucous engine note, less clatter at idle. I often remember engaging starter motor when standing at lights with the petrol as I thought it had stalled. Granted stop start will put an end to that now. Petrol was miles ahead in refinement and it felt a lot more agile. 

 

I don't dispute that the diesel is a fine car, but it is no where near the refinement of a petrol, or indeed the diesel engines produced by BMW.

Isnt the diesel slightly heavier as well? Considering how light the cars are, every little bit of extra weight helps. Well in my eyes anyway. Suppose it depends what you need it for. Straight line speed, and you'll want a lighter nippier petrol. Normal car, and the heavier nature of the diesel should hopefully make it slightly more stable, albeit not by a lot.

HarrySprout. The petrol is a more 'fun' car to drive, yes. But as for it being a better car to drive overall. That is down to the individual. To you the petrol was better overall. To others the diesel will be. Slightly more relaxed, less changing gear. Crikey in a petrol im in 5th gear at a tad over 30mph. As i say, it depends on the individual. Im not particularly bothered either way. There is little difference in it. Petrol more fun? Yes, but only if you need that. Petrol better drive overall? No, about the same. I think that shows it is personal choice, as we are both saying different things, and a third person will say something else. The noise again is personal. I love the noise of a diesel. Hey my old petrol had a faint diesel like sound when pushed. It sounded good. An actual diesel sounds even better, and the best bit? When you want a quiet cruiser, you cant hear the engine. To the OP, test drive the diesel. See what you think. You may not think the same as any of us.

HarrySprout. The petrol is a more 'fun' car to drive, yes. But as for it being a better car to drive overall. That is down to the individual. To you the petrol was better overall. To others the diesel will be. Slightly more relaxed, less changing gear. Crikey in a petrol im in 5th gear at a tad over 30mph. As i say, it depends on the individual. Im not particularly bothered either way. There is little difference in it. Petrol more fun? Yes, but only if you need that. Petrol better drive overall? No, about the same. I think that shows it is personal choice, as we are both saying different things, and a third person will say something else. The noise again is personal. I love the noise of a diesel. Hey my old petrol had a faint diesel like sound when pushed. It sounded good. An actual diesel sounds even better, and the best bit? When you want a quiet cruiser, you cant hear the engine. To the OP, test drive the diesel. See what you think. You may not think the same as any of us.

Slightly more relaxed! Where? You have to change gear earlier in a diesel as it runs out of grunt. You get more torque from a diesel low down. That's about it.

People are under the mis apprehension that a diesel is cheaper to run than a petrol, well that might be the case when you cover in excess of 20k a year. 

 

The amount of people driving around in diesel cars on 12-13K a year or less are kidding themselves, even taking into account the lesser depreciation of a diesel the figures simply don't add up.

Personal experience also determines choice of diesel or petrol.

 

After driving diesel company cars for years and afterwards when I bought my own, a Citroen diesel, I bought a Fabia Greenline II with a 1.2TDI engine, my first VW Diesel, without a thought of a problem.  The engine had to be replaced after 6 weeks of ownership before it self destructed, the replacement engine did nothing but breakdown. I also had a DPF sensor go shortly after one of the many engine failures resulted in grey smoke coming out of the exhaust- that DPF is going to have a short lifespan.

 

Because most of my driving at the time was with the car fully loaded I was advised in the real world the 1.6 would be better than the 1.2 and give a better or similar MPG. 1.2 car replaced by a 1.6TDI that ran perfectly fine but gave poor mpg against book, the 1.2 under the same driving conditions and compared to previous diesels, oil level sensor broke after one week of ownership and rear doors leaked.

 

Now I drive a 1.4TSI petrol and it is streets ahead of the two previous VW diesels and my prior diesel engines and I am very happy.

I have absolutely no allegiance to either diesel or petrol, i just ended up with diesel because it ended up being the cheapest option with what was available at the time.

 

For me the fun element of a car pretty much goes after a few weeks of ownership and once you get used to the performance and driveability of the thing I guess the only thing left is the economics.

 

On a PCP there isn't alot in the cost of a 2.0tdi against a 1.4tsi, at least there wasn't when i was buying, and all thats left is tax and petrol which the diesel marginally wins.

Slightly more relaxed! Where? You have to change gear earlier in a diesel as it runs out of grunt. You get more torque from a diesel low down. That's about it.

People are under the mis apprehension that a diesel is cheaper to run than a petrol, well that might be the case when you cover in excess of 20k a year. 

 

The amount of people driving around in diesel cars on 12-13K a year or less are kidding themselves, even taking into account the lesser depreciation of a diesel the figures simply don't add up.

 

Not sure how you came to them figures.

 

Diesel is around 5-6% more expensive than petrol at the pumps. Real world MPG is around 39 for petrol and 55 for diesel at a guess?

 

Type them figures in on here along with the prices of the car and based on only 10,000 miles a year you will save £379 a year in fuel alone and have recouped the extra cost of purchasing the diesel in only 7 months. Add in the car tax and you have saved £489 in the first year. Add in the depriciation and you have saved even more.

 

http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driver-tools/petrol-vs-diesel/petrol-and-diesel-fuel-costs/

 

If like me you drive through France a few times a year then you will save even more as diesel is alot cheaper than petrol there.

 You have to change gear earlier in a diesel as it runs out of grunt.

 

Really? I'm in 3rd by about 20mph, 4th at about 35mph, 50th at 50mph and I'd never drive below 60mph in 6th...... Same as any petrol car i've owned......

Really? I'm in 3rd by about 20mph, 4th at about 35mph, 50th at 50mph and I'd never drive below 60mph in 6th...... Same as any petrol car i've owned......

Harrysprout is right but if you are driving normally it isn't really relevant. Mind you some people will occasionally accelerate to 70 in second which is almost impossible in a diesel.

Harrysprout is right but if you are driving normally it isn't really relevant. Mind you some people will occasionally accelerate to 70 in second which is almost impossible in a diesel.

 

Ah right, I was talking about the real world because that's where I drive my car, forgive me.  Is the petrol even geared for 70 in second? I'd be surprised...

Really? I'm in 3rd by about 20mph, 4th at about 35mph, 50th at 50mph and I'd never drive below 60mph in 6th...... Same as any petrol car i've owned......

go past 4000 revs and watch the power die in a diesel.

go past 4000 revs and watch the power die in a diesel.

 

But there's no need to go above 4000rpm in a diesel, and if you want to then you've bought the wrong car.  That's like saying go above 7000rpm in a petrol and watch the pistons rolling about on the road behind you...... pointless argument.

Ah right, I was talking about the real world because that's where I drive my car, forgive me. Is the petrol even geared for 70 in second? I'd be surprised...

I was on your side and was merely suggesting that you are unlikely to find the run out of grunt if you are gear shifting normally like you would if you left it in second and tried to hit 70.

Haven't a clue how the petrol is geared just know that my mk1 1.3 fiesta could do it quite easily!

HarrySprout. A diesel runs out of puff sooner? Eh, thats a maybe, but you have to be acting boy racer-ish if you rev the diesel enough for it to run out of puff. In normal driving, the diesel will never run out of puff. Now im not denying a petrol has more puff low down the rev range, but the 2 litre diesel doesnt take long for the turbo to kick in. Also a petrol doesnt need to be revved as much to achieve the same acceleration due to the extra low down puff. But a diesel, because of this, does not need to be changed up as often as a petrol in normal driving. Hence yes, some do describe diesels as a more relaxing drive. I think i probably do. 

Petrol will do an indictaed 72 in 2nd. I think the gearing is perfect. My last petrol was a civic type r, gears were way too short.

HarrySprout. A diesel runs out of puff sooner? Eh, thats a maybe, but you have to be acting boy racer-ish if you rev the diesel enough for it to run out of puff. In normal driving, the diesel will never run out of puff. Now im not denying a petrol has more puff low down the rev range, but the 2 litre diesel doesnt take long for the turbo to kick in. Also a petrol doesnt need to be revved as much to achieve the same acceleration due to the extra low down puff. But a diesel, because of this, does not need to be changed up as often as a petrol in normal driving. Hence yes, some do describe diesels as a more relaxing drive. I think i probably do.

And cruising along the motorway at 80mph in sixth with the engine at 2000rpm is a joy.

Diesels tend to have higher gearing than petrol to cater/compensate for lower rev ranges (red-lines). In practice this gearing helps to keep diesels within their power bands. There is nothing wrong with diesel gearing in my petrol-preferring opinion, and in most instances a good turbo-diesel pulls stronger and with less need for gear changes than a good non-turbo petrol of similar power.

 

The OP of this thread is however comparing turbo-diesel to turbo-petrol, a scenario where the petrol engine has an advantage in every area bar efficiency. Torque numbers may be ~10% higher for the diesel, but its low red-line, narrower peak power band, and longer gearing result in a lower performing car.

 

Compared to my old Subaru's, the VRS TSI is geared like a diesel, but it's wide torque spread makes it very drivable a dare I say it more pokey than my STI IV was when caught in the wrong gear. The TSI actually drives like a super-refined diesel car, having lots of low end torque mated to relaxed gearing. ~35mpg+ also soundly beats the 20mpg I struggled to beat within my Subaru's.

This whole running out of puff thing......the 150 TDi i test drove performed strongly to 4500rpm then noticeably tailed off, though the soft limiter cuts in a 5k so its hardly an issue. By comparison by 170 CR feels flat around 4k.

The TSi's peak power is produced by 4.5k much like a diesels so its almost pointless even extending it beyond that amount of revs, it'll pull no harder until the 6.2k drop-off in any case.

Not particularly exciting in my book. Not like 306hp being produced at 7.4k in an old Boxster S or 343hp at 7.9k in an e46 M3 is it, both naturally aspirated.....the porsche could achieve 34mpg too and would be a sight quicker than the vRS TSi.

An M135i can achieve a real world 35mpg and is quicker still, to me leaves the real world MPG capability of the TSi quite unimpressive.

All more expensive cars but a fair point i think. My fabia vRS with a 45mpg book figure never bettered 32mpg either.

Edited 9 January, 201412 yr by pipsyp

The good old petrol v. diesel debate. It is all about horses for courses. Would I have a petrol Octavia? No. Would I have a diesel Porsche 911 (should such a car exist)? No.

Edited 9 January, 201412 yr by Timoctav

I'm happy with my petrol vRS and wouldn't swap it for anything.

Harrysprout is right but if you are driving normally it isn't really relevant. Mind you some people will occasionally accelerate to 70 in second which is almost impossible in a diesel.

 

And surely impossible in the petrol too.  70 in second? Are you sure?

This whole running out of puff thing......the 150 TDi i test drove performed strongly to 4500rpm then noticeably tailed off, though the soft limiter cuts in a 5k so its hardly an issue. By comparison by 170 CR feels flat around 4k.

The TSi's peak power is produced by 4.5k much like a diesels so its almost pointless even extending it beyond that amount of revs, it'll pull no harder until the 6.2k drop-off in any case.

Not particularly exciting in my book. Not like 306hp being produced at 7.4k in an old Boxster S or 343hp at 7.9k in an e46 M3 is it, both naturally aspirated.....the porsche could achieve 34mpg too and would be a sight quicker than the vRS TSi.

An M135i can achieve a real world 35mpg and is quicker still, to me leaves the real world MPG capability of the TSi quite unimpressive.

All more expensive cars but a fair point i think. My fabia vRS with a 45mpg book figure never bettered 32mpg either.

Fuelly lists the M135i as averaging 24.9mog which is frankly crap for a relatively light car. The VRS TSI yields almost 50% more according to real user figures. The M135i also costs £10k more for a similar spec, so in price terms it's similar to comparing the VRS to a Focus 1.0 Zetec. Strange choice comparing a practical family hot hatch to a Boxter, an M3 and M135.

And surely impossible in the petrol too.  70 in second? Are you sure?

 

I would say its possible watching this vid?

 

 

he gets to 62mph at 6k rpm before changes up, 70 looks within reach..just

 

 

/edit

 

Also, guys, surely its just down to personal preference as to whats better, can't we just all get along

 

Also, guys, surely its just down to personal preference as to whats better, can't we just all get along

Agree totally - one man's meat is another's poison and all that - what is it with some on Briskoda? Why the aggression which seems to creep into so many threads? I've not experienced any other forum as bad for this. We're all car enthusiasts!

I stand corrected amigo. 

 

Good post.  I couldn't agree more about preference.  As I've said before, it's a massive purchase and the OP must be happy with their choice.  We could all waffle on (constructively of course) but the only person who knows what's right is the buyer.  Test drive them both, lots and only then make your choice. Then of course, enjoy your choice.