Be aware with an APR map - very, very poor.

[wja96]

That's one interesting, albeit biased way of looking at this. Fortunately one mishap doesn't represent our return on the whole, and as you've read above hopefully you understand the breadth at which I've tried to assist from afar. Browse Seatcupra.net, TTforum, RS3OC, and mk5GolfGTI forums to see the extent of the forum-only positive response.

 

For those who don't know, our HQ MK is a development centre as well as inventory hub for Europe. There we stored and tested two development TTRSs (which both underwent complete engine builds from other shoppes and tested three versions of our stage 3 kit) and Sy's Fabia VRS for a while. The owners of these cars were completely aware of the circumstances and by now all of the cars are gone, with the TTRS stage 3 kit released and Sy's suffered constantly from OEM 1.4TSI weaknesses and unknowns of the Loba product that we've since discontinued.

I'm only really aware of the cars that have been shown and talked about on the TT Forum but given that there was HUGE controversy over the actual power outputs of the Stage 3 cars and the first thing one of the owners did was sell the car when he got it back after well over a year. And then there was the RS S-tronic you had to trailer back to Milton Keynes because you loaded US software for a manual car onto a European-spec S-tronic with somewhat disappointing results. And when the car had to be sorted, it wasn't sorted out by Milton Keynes development centre, it was sorted by APR Switzerland because Milton Keynes lacked the expertise.

As for the guy who had the Fabia vRS, surely your responsibility as a tuner is to give the owner a safe upgrade that doesn't necessarily accentuate the inherent weaknesses in the base product.

I'm not saying that you don't have happy customers, because you clearly do, I'm just saying that your only other appearance on a car forum and the issues I've seen on here don't engender 100% confidence.

[Evan@APR]

Indeed! On the TT forum we opened our 2.5T stage 3 development process up to the public to follow with JC and Poverty's cars. Over the course of development, many people had their doubts, but the kit is now released and any doubts should be gone. That kit even took a class victory for the Tuner Grand Prix at Hockenheim in Germany and recently won the European Car tuner challenge in California. Needless to say, it's performing as expected

But, uhhhhhh what is this about a car that was sent to MK and went to Switzerland to be fixed? I've just been on the phone with our UK team and I'm told that's neither true, nor would it make sense. If you flash an ECU with the wrong software (which our system has redundancies to prevent), it could easily be written over. Also, the ECU software doesn't affect the TCU so that's the second red flag in that story. Our MK office has the ability to flash over all of these ECUs AND we have close enough contacts at Audi UK that we'd be able to arrange for a TCU reflash if needed. No idea why anybody would go to Switzerland for any of that. Seems bogus, but who knows. Maybe one of our dealers acted independently and didn't notify us of any of this, but that's pretty extreme...

The 1.4TSI engines have inherent problems, but it's hit or miss and we try to educate our customers of this when they consider tuning the engine. Sy wanted as much power as we could extract from it and we gave it a good effort. Obviously our goal is to create powerful AND reliable tunes, which is why we discontinued the build and do not offer that software.

Thanks for your input. Merry Xmas!

[j0hn]

I guess that tells me all I need to know really. When I said:

I suppose I don't know what further response I was expecting.....

I suppose I really meant I was expecting some kind of response, especially when there were a couple of points I felt I had to correct, but I guess now I'm no longer a prospective hardware customer, then that's that.The internet is full of comments relating to negative issues and experiences and much fewer positive so I can see how this doesn't appear much different. I can also see how APR would think that I've basically taken my business elsewhere and then spat out my dummy and blamed their product. Had this issue not come up, 4 days after the problem occurred, the car was still booked in for the hybrid work, it would have all just transitioned quietly (probably). The two events aren't connected but it's unfortunate that things worked out the way I did. One thing I've learnt is there is a lot to be said for keeping things local. R Tech are 20 minutes away and, if my car is there, I can get a bus from virtually outside my front door to virtually outside R Tech's front door which is a bonus. I categorically do not want to deal with AMD in the UK and don't want to have to rely on telephone support from Germany. I've worked for big companies in the UK so I appreciate how difficult (impossible) it is to please everybody all of the time, especially when operating throughout the world as APR do but whilst this issue would have still have arisen, it may have been sorted more quickly with better communication.

[wja96]

Indeed! On the TT forum we opened our 2.5T stage 3 development process up to the public to follow with JC and Poverty's cars. Over the course of development, many people had their doubts, but the kit is now released and any doubts should be gone. That kit even took a class victory for the Tuner Grand Prix at Hockenheim in Germany and recently won the European Car tuner challenge in California. Needless to say, it's performing as expected

But, uhhhhhh what is this about a car that was sent to MK and went to Switzerland to be fixed? I've just been on the phone with our UK team and I'm told that's neither true, nor would it make sense. If you flash an ECU with the wrong software (which our system has redundancies to prevent), it could easily be written over. Also, the ECU software doesn't affect the TCU so that's the second red flag in that story. Our MK office has the ability to flash over all of these ECUs AND we have close enough contacts at Audi UK that we'd be able to arrange for a TCU reflash if needed. No idea why anybody would go to Switzerland for any of that. Seems bogus, but who knows. Maybe one of our dealers acted independently and didn't notify us of any of this, but that's pretty extreme...

The 1.4TSI engines have inherent problems, but it's hit or miss and we try to educate our customers of this when they consider tuning the engine. Sy wanted as much power as we could extract from it and we gave it a good effort. Obviously our goal is to create powerful AND reliable tunes, which is why we discontinued the build and do not offer that software.

Thanks for your input. Merry Xmas!

http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302597&p=2425390&hilit=Evan+collected#p2425390

Apparently you had the car picked up? Unless there is more than one Evan? And it definitely says it was sorted by APR Switzerland?

I'm not sure why anyone would make that up?

[j0hn]

Nobody arranged for my car to be picked up.

After I spent some time chasing Keith for a solution he said he needed either the battery to be disconnected for 10 mins or for the car to be sent to an APR dealer. As it wouldn't move under it's own power, I wasn't going to fork out more on recovery on top if the cash I'd lost on the track day and the £50 odd in transport home.

There's a very small part of me that feels like I was being treated like the local thick.

[wja96]

Nobody arranged for my car to be picked up.

After I spent some time chasing Keith for a solution he said he needed either the battery to be disconnected for 10 mins or for the car to be sent to an APR dealer. As it wouldn't move under it's own power, I wasn't going to fork out more on recovery on top if the cash I'd lost on the track day and the £50 odd in transport home.

There's a very small part of me that feels like I was being treated like the local thick.

Hi,

Sorry, the thread linked refers to a TTRS that APR remapped, incorrectly, then collected and flashed with a map from APR Switzerland.

[j0hn]

Yeah I got that. My thread (I.e., this one) doesn't relate to a car flashed by APR Switzerland but my own car which also experienced an issue directly related to an APR map. I am drawing a comparison between a car with an APR problem that was collected for a fix (not mine) and a car with an APR problem that was not collected (or indeed an offer of collection made) for a fix (mine).

I'm trying to feedback a direct experience as a result of having not received any communication, for whatever reason, from APR. I'd prefer it if unrelated cars with other issues weren't brought up although this is the internet and I don't control who posts their opinion irrespective of their relevancy.

Sorry if that comparison detracts from an unrelated story about somebody's else's car.

[Evan@APR]

http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302597&p=2425390&hilit=Evan+collected#p2425390

Apparently you had the car picked up? Unless there is more than one Evan? And it definitely says it was sorted by APR Switzerland?

I'm not sure why anyone would make that up?

Ah, thank you for posting the link. What happened was that we weren't pleased with the way the Stronic cars were shifting. APR Switzerland also has an Stronic TTRS, so our software engineers worked through the weekend testing files in the Swiss car and found a resolution. I collected powerplay's car, left him a hire car, reflashed his car with the new file, tested and verified everything was in order, then returned it. If you read the thread, he was very pleased with the whole experience.

Different scenario, topic, and experience.

J0hn has moved past this and is happy with his new setup. I still feel bad, but can't change the past. Not sure what else to say....

[wja96]

Ah, thank you for posting the link. What happened was that we weren't pleased with the way the Stronic cars were shifting.

That's not quite how PowerPlay represented it.

APR Switzerland also has an Stronic TTRS, so our software engineers worked through the weekend testing files in the Swiss car and found a resolution. I collected powerplay's car, left him a hire car, reflashed his car with the new file, tested and verified everything was in order, then returned it. If you read the thread, he was very pleased with the whole experience.

He was indeed. What surprises me is that you couldn't remember it.

Different scenario, topic, and experience.

J0hn has moved past this and is happy with his new setup. I still feel bad, but can't change the past. Not sure what else to say....

Indeed.

[wja96]

Yeah I got that. My thread (I.e., this one) doesn't relate to a car flashed by APR Switzerland but my own car which also experienced an issue directly related to an APR map. I am drawing a comparison between a car with an APR problem that was collected for a fix (not mine) and a car with an APR problem that was not collected (or indeed an offer of collection made) for a fix (mine).

I'm trying to feedback a direct experience as a result of having not received any communication, for whatever reason, from APR. I'd prefer it if unrelated cars with other issues weren't brought up although this is the internet and I don't control who posts their opinion irrespective of their relevancy.

Sorry if that comparison detracts from an unrelated story about somebody's else's car.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood. The post was made in response to the APR rep's insistence that all was sweetness and light on other forums, when it certainly wasn't.

[john_y]

Hi,

 

APR and JoHN it's about time this situation was resolved - get together and do the right thing!

 

John Y

 

 

[j0hn]

I don't think this is going to go any further John.

 

From Evan's last comment:

 

 J0hn has moved past this and is happy with his new setup. I still feel bad, but can't change the past. Not sure what else to say....

 

I'm guessing it's considered done and dusted. I am past it, I don't really care now and whilst I can't disagree that I am happy with my new setup (I am, immensely - come round I'll take you for a spin), I'm not very happy with the way this was handled.

To get to a stage where the communication came down to a forum thread, with my last (detailed) post having to address certain things (and to a degree defend myself) going largely unanswered, is pretty bad really. I sent my mobile number over on an email back in October so even if I didn't have direct contact numbers for Keith or anybody else, mine was with APR.

 

Furthermore, I had a car that I'd had recovered AFTER I was told anti theft couldn't have been activated that was then immobile because the EMCS wouldn't accept the PIN that I was expected to get to an APR dealer.

I still don't accept that there isn't a problem with the switching. There's another guy running APR on his Cupra R (or possibly a K1) who recently switched his maps beteween 95 and 98 modes and suffered a problem which resulted in his car having to go to APR's Northampton dealer to be looked at. APR looked after him and I believe he's happy with the resolution but it stills says, "Problem" to me.

 

I think what gets me most annoyed is that I feel a bit like I was left alone to sort this out myself, I was made a couple let's-make-this-right offers, which were greatly appreciated at the time but as soon as I've said I'm no longer an APR user, it's a case of get stuffed then (that's what it feels like anyway) and the problem's gone away all of a sudden.

 

It's a shame because in no way am I really trying to be critical of the product - they're good maps and they make quick cars even quicker. My dad's 1.8 TSI Superb goes out of warranty before September and I know he was thinking of a map - there are very few tuners that map the 1.8 TSI through the port and I'd still consider an APR tune. I suppose I'd just recommend he went to his local dealer for any support if it was needed but you have to have a dealer with that sort of knowledge.

 

Anyway, I'm really past caring now and I can't write anymore because the cat is sitting across both of my arms.

[j0hn]

I know I should leave this alone now but I'm quite annoyed that this week Keith has been banging on about the state of British customer service, how this poor standard wouldn't be tolerated in the USA (I'm pretty sure crap customer service happens all over the world). Going on to essentially saying that anybody who can buy a piece of equipment from Amazon can provide an APR software product (there's more, largely about the ability of some to actually have a greater understanding of what those tuners do, so it's not all bad) to essentially to service their 40,000 customers per year. There's no arguing that's a lot of customers to look after and you're not going to get it right every time but conversely you're not going to have each of those 40,000 customers on the phone all the time, because i) you're hopefully not going to have that many problems and ii) your dealer network should look after a lot of those customers. Yep there's an argument I could've had the car recovered to C&R in Nottingham, VRS in Northampton or somewhere else but I spoke to APR, misinformed and sent the car to my regular VAG specialist. That's a specialist I trust, who I always get good customer service from, who looks after me and treats me well and (and I apologise for the language and the rant) I AM NOT GOING TO BE F*CKING CRITICISED for making that decision.

It is however pretty clear that R Tech continue to be held in high regard by many including, it seems, by APR.

I liked the map, I thought the service when it was actually needed was pretty dire but I can't help thinking that a lot of it could be sorted with a couple of extra knowledgable bums on seats - at 40k customers per year, it's not going to cost a lot really is it?

[Hedge]

At the end of the day faced with fook all help from the provider of your map you did what was right for you.

 

Anyone with hindsight can and will criticise but all that matters is the actions you took to resolve.

 

At the end of the day if APR were all they claim to be then others would be queueing up to be agents of theirs, which obviously isn't the case otherwise you could have gone locally to an APR agent.

[Evan@APR]

At the end of the day faced with fook all help from the provider of your map you did what was right for you.

 

Anyone with hindsight can and will criticise but all that matters is the actions you took to resolve.

 

At the end of the day if APR were all they claim to be then others would be queueing up to be agents of theirs, which obviously isn't the case otherwise you could have gone locally to an APR agent.

 

Oh come on. He went to AKS which is 20 minutes away from our HQ :/

[j0hn]

That's not fair Evan.

I was told two pieces of information on the phone - one that it wasn't the anti theft (ergo it must be mechanical so I need an oily mechanic to look at the car and, two (this is the important one) that APR's UK office "isn't open right now", because APR were Germany bound.

So with a car that doesn't work, what the hell am I supposed to do. I feel my comments are justified.

[Evan@APR]

What's not fair is that despite you moving on with a new tune and setup, and me openly apologizing, I'm still being slated and have to respond to unnecessary, inflammatory comments like this:

 

"At the end of the day if APR were all they claim to be then others would be queueing up to be agents of theirs, which obviously isn't the case otherwise you could have gone locally to an APR agent."

[BossFox]

Evan, sorry to put this here as I can't find your APR section despite you showing as a sponsor.

 

Can you check the stock of downpipes for your 1.8tsi 320bhp K04 kit for the Skoda Yeti please?

 

I'm trying to order a kit but my local supplier (Tuningwerks in Croydon) seem to be having issues and have had to put back my supply date from Tuesday gone so it's now open ended... :(

 

Full kit with intercooler, air feed and exhaust.

 

Many thanks.

[j0hn]

What's not fair is that despite you moving on with a new tune and setup, and me openly apologizing, I'm still being slated and have to respond to unnecessary, inflammatory comments like this:

I understand you have to defend APR's reputation (not that there is much that it needs to be defended from, I can see that), but please don't do it at the expense of facts. Yes I'm happy with a new tune and setup and I've made it clear that I didn't take that new setup as a direct consequence of the problems I suffered, it was already planned and booked. Would I have gone for more power with APR? Sure, but I don't have the funds for a Stage III+ conversion and I was interested in trying something that hadn't been widely attempted yet - that's by the bye.

Evan, this has all come about because my first port of call was APR - unfortunately for me, as you've acknowledged, the person who answered the phone wasn't much help. When the person who answers the phone at APR tells me that the problem isn't software related and has to be hardware because the car shouldn't start with anti-theft and, when she asks me to go to another APR dealer with whom I have no rapport, because the "UK office isn't open right now" (and then gets moved to Germany) then don't give me grief for going to a tech that I trust to sort out what I'm told can only be a hardware problem.

I could initially accept that I might have been at fault with the anti theft stuff, but I think it's pretty safe to say that I wasn't at this stage - with the checks on the cruise stalk done, the myriad attempts at entering the correct code - it just doesn't seem feasible. I never started this thread to criticise the product, it came about because I was sitting at home with no car and no communication, not receiving replies to emails that I'd sent to try and find out how this could be fixed. Wonder why I've sent you a third email asking you if you've decided to stop replying to me? You've got my number, give me a call and find out.

Evan I tried to respond to your first post in this thread with a reasoned argument and made points that are still to be acknowledged. I don't have a business the size of APR but I've let some of my customers down due to my own equipment failing and preventing me from carrying out a job. Sometimes it's cost me more than the value of the job to fix, but fixed it I have and made things right.

I'm not disputing you said to me you wanted to put things right, but I'm guessing that as soon as you considered that I'd jumped ship you changed your mind - that's your prerogative anyway. I guess with 40,000 new customers globally each year, that's probably not something you have to worry about too much anyway.

This thread will keep running around and around in circles, getting neither of us anywhere and I'll continue to get more and more frustrated so I think it's probably best if I end it here. Richard, I'm sorry - I'm sure Evan will contact you by PM with the answers to your question or you can drop him a mail ([email protected] I think).