Argh I know what my knocking noise is (stops)

[vRSAnt]

I've realised what we did wrong on assembling the passenger side shock

 

The stops are the wrong way around on the offside I think. Drivers side fine from noises its just this side.

I think the lower part of the stop is actually supposed to be the soft bit and of course the top bit fits into the cavity ! Doh!

Well at least I know now.

 

Do you think I can loose the top shock nut (I've got the tools to do this), but then with the spring fully extended from the car in the air, that I can then push the shocker into compression (past where it bolts in) and past the bumpstops,

Then manage to reverse the stop the right way then tighten again ?

 

I'm not sure how much play there is in the shock to do that, or if its safe. I'm think its safe enough, the shock itself does not job in supporting the car, its if its possible is the problem.

 

Bearing in mind I already shortened the stops so they are shorter anyway so they can push up and down ok so should be plenty of play to switch it around (I think its about 2 to 21/2 inches long approx)

[Holmesie]

i cant see why the bump stop being upside down will cause a knock? unless your taking your car across a land rover assault course daily 

[vRSAnt]

Normally it doesn't.......but the journeys I take on B roads are a bit like afghanistan !

I know the answer would be, don't take those routes. But you'd have to be mad not to and the car still has a problem.

Have you ever tried travelling the A43 into Northampton at rush hour ? Why would anyone with marbles choose sitting in stationary traffic for 15mins+ a day over just moving ?

Despite the most careful of driving I will eventually hit even a remotely small pothole or drain and just riding over that is enough to get the knock.

 

Anyway I'm convinced it is this....because the stop is meant to be compressive.......shock meets stop and compresses?

I think I have only developed this problem more recently after I trimmed the stops. So before it would have been more sitting on the hard end of the stop all the time anyway, and with the spongy part of the stop would have been compressing against the bell shape of the strutt top housing.

 

If the soft(er) end is on the other side (pushed up which it will do after contined compression cycles) eventually you will get to a position where the hard bit of the stop meets the hard bit of the shock body. I think this is what it is.

 

As there is next to bugger all travel as far as I can work out with stops in place. Before I trimmed them, they would have actually been SITTING on the stops.

(I don't know if many who lower realise this, but you then have the car sitting on the stops effectively adding to the compression. If you prefer a stiffer ride that's great...for those that actually like a bit of suspension play on a downward stroke if you will, it may be worth trimming a bit.)

 

I could also revert back to standard suspension (springs) and keep the newer shocks in place. It would be a shame to do that though it its as simple as what I think.

[Holmesie]

if your car is bottoming out the suspension so it hits the bump stops there is something wrong especially if its hitting them hard enough to make a loud knock  ....

mine is lowered on h & r springs and over rough roads and speed bumps yes its stiff but it doesnt hit the bump stops ( which have not been cut as the suspension should have more than 30mm travel) and there is still plenty suspension travel if you press down say on the boot floor / taingate frame / wings before getting anywhere near the stops 

i would suggest checking nothing else is knocking :

i found my subframe / front console was loose which caused a front end knock on one side more than the other
top mounts?
roll bar bushes 
console bushes 
drop links 

[vRSAnt]

Cheers mate,

What did your springs say on them though. Mine are like 40mm lower, I don't know which ones you used so they may be a bit different perhaps ?

I've just been through MOT so there isn't anything seiously wrong or they would have picked it up surely and it wasn't like me and my mate were deliquent in doing the job, we were trying to do it as very best as possible.

 

We did start to rush the offside, only because we were struggling to get it done before dark, hence the mistake with the stop the wrong way.

 

Note, I realise from your last post, you are talking about tailgate/rear, note that I am talking about the front? I've got not problems with the rear.

 

In order to tell where your car is on the front in relation to the stops, you are probably going to need to jack up on a side and move the dust cover out the way. Have you done this ?

 

I think for the interruption of pleasure its having on the car I may look at booking it somewhere if trying to reverse the stop around doesn't work. My question was just whether this was simple enough to do or not on the front.

[Holmesie]

not sure checked on demon tweeks and there was only 2 sets one petrol one diesel ( weight dependent ) 

i wouldnt trust an mot too much .... i know we have taken a car for an mot before with some known faults and passed it ( i dont think they always look at the car depending on the badge on the front)

 

yes you can push down on the front wings on tailgate to get an idea to whether on not your hitting bump stops without removing anything if you hit the bump stops then you wont move much further 

and i wouldnt have thought you could remove the bump stop without removing / stripping the strut down again

[fletch101]

Most likely to be anti roll bar drop links. Especially if your drop link span a few times when you removed and refitted

[fletch101]

You couldn't casualy hit the bump stops on grids or pot holes btw. And the dash and trims would be rattling ovrr the bump stop rubber sound

[vRSAnt]

Ok guys, think I may need some expert investigation here then.

[fletch101]

To check an anti roll bar drop link. . Jack front of car up. Take off front wheels. Then grab it amd try and move it as hard as you can.. bending is normal but if it makes and noise or knocks. That's the problem. .

With the front end jacked up just grab anything (apart from brake lines) and pull or push ln it as hard as you can to try and get movement. .. another one could be your consol bushes. Although I doubt as its bump related

[vRSAnt]

Won't be the bushes I wouldn't have thought, had the X console bushes done by unit18

 

Had a good pull on the old drop links when we were refitting, they moved smoothly etc, although I guess could have worn since it was fitted, many months ago

[Kenny130pd]

Drop links are the most common cause.

[vRSAnt]

Thanks again, I have some days off coming up, opportunity to check for myself - or get an expert in !

[fletch101]

I just changed my drop links. Only lasted 3 months. Well one of the links had the slightest play. And when the rest of the car is silent . A slight knock goes to my head lol

[vRSAnt]

I've just dropped it off somewhere that is charging me 1hr for the privilege of Initial investigation (they are good garage scheme), at least agreed with my about the harshness on the offside so I'm not making it up.

 

Did originally ask Unit 18 if they maybe could fit it in but not heard anything so just hope my local guys can help.

[Tech1e]

Have you called Unit18? Ali has had some email issues recently, especially with Hotmail.

[vRSAnt]

Called them now,

Should have gone there from day 1 to be honest, but given its quite a drive round trip thats the only reason I'd didn't take them up on doing it first time around ( and I don't like being sat about all day lol when I could do the job myself )

 

Might either go back to standard or try the eibach instead for a more modest stop. Not made my mind up which yet.

 

Might try one little idea first and let them know and cancel if it works - I'm going to go my best to try and get the bump stop in the right position and may trim a bit more off to see if this increases the working travel.

 

At the end of the day the trimmed stops are already scrap now anyway and I'll need some more if I go back to standard. Maybe I just didn't take enough off them in the first place. Or not.

 

Just got the news from the local garage, they think its because I've got standard sachs shocks and they don't work well with lowered springs and may reach the end of their travel ?

[Holmesie]

mine has standard skoda shocks and works fine

[vRSAnt]

"fine" ?

Well most people don't want what you describe as "fine" (rolls like a pig going into corners), which is why a lot lower the car and then it also doesn't look like bigfoot anymore!

Okay maybe not fine but how about we try to be more modest and call it "okay"? Even that would have been pushing it, to be honest.

I'd expect standard suspension of the vRS on far cheaper Corsas etc.

 

Sorry but for a moderately sporty car (certainly far moreso than the 1.4 16v or sport)

Skoda completely failed to grasp the "sportiness" suggested by the marketing of the car. What is wrong with the fact that many people pursue that slightly better suspension that should have been on the car from day1 ?

[Holmesie]

"fine" ?

Well most people don't want what you describe as "fine" (rolls like a pig going into corners), which is why a lot lower the car and then it also doesn't look like bigfoot anymore!

Okay maybe not fine but how about we try to be more modest and call it "okay"? Even that would have been pushing it, to be honest.

I'd expect standard suspension of the vRS on far cheaper Corsas etc.

 

Sorry but for a moderately sporty car (certainly far moreso than the 1.4 16v or sport)

Skoda completely failed to grasp the "sportiness" suggested by the marketing of the car. What is wrong with the fact that many people pursue that slightly better suspension that should have been on the car from day1 ?

its on h and r springs with standard shocks so hardly rolly in any shape of the word .... so it does handle fine or okay on standard shocks and lower stiffer springs

a 1.9 tdi sporty?? not sure that could ever be correct the rev range is tiny and the useable power/torque range even tinier probs why they ditched the tdi for a tsi on the mk2

[vRSAnt]

I misunderstood, thought you meant you had standard shocks and springs.....will go and sit in the naughty corner now

[vRSAnt]

I'm a bit ****ed off at wasting £50 today for an investigation from a garage in the good garage scheme, they basically have put it down to being on lowered and with lower wheels.

I don't think they really engaged with the problem fully and I might as well have just done it myself.

 

I'm going to try a few things tomorrow if it isn't peeing down. Hear me out and does this make sense.

 

I'm going to loosen off JUST the shock bolt not the top mounts, and see how far down the shock shaft will push down when the springs are compressed.

If it barely goes down and that bottoms out then there is my problem, and the argument they made is sound.

If not then it ISN'T that as a problem they described it as.

 

I'll also with the shock nut loose, and the shaft hopefully pushed down far enough hope to see if I can get the now shorter bump stop around the right way. Maybe a tall order but I'll give it a go.
I will check that out and if its still bumping I may trim a bit more of the stops and see if this makes the problem better, or worse. Also interesting to see if the suspension itself remains as hard or not.

 

As I've been booked in to basically remove/replace it can't hurt.

 

Those on H&R how far can you push the FRONT of your car down yourself I wonder? To do this scientifically you really need someone else holding a tape measure against a clear point of the car while you push it. Can't be more than a cm or 2 on mine at the moment

[Holmesie]

it may be worth going to a local meet and comparing yours to other on coilies / lowering springs .... removing the shock nut on top of the strut could be a bit of a silly thing to do as the spring will them push the suspension beyond full travel as the shocker wont be compressing the spring what so ever and i cant imagine it being easy to get compressors on to the spring in the wheel arch

and tbh i dont think the good garage scheme is much more than a way of someone making money to put a garages contact details on their website and a lovely green sign outside 

Edited 5 December, 2013 by Holmesie

[vRSAnt]

Silly me I forgot to mention my spring compressors lol

Yeah you can get them into the arch, we did it on assembly

 

Also don't underestimate the ability for the weight of the car/engine etc to hold that spring into compression, it ain't going to go flying into orbit lol

 

Thats why when you raise the car, the spring decompresses. What do you think would happen if the supsension was already on maximum length when you raise the car from the wheels ? The shock offers no ability to compress, its just a "damper"

 

I agree though that when you jack it up, it would take the weight off the spring and slowly hence push away from the top of the shock as you jack it? So the compressors as far as I can see it aren't really necessary as the shock is only at max length when you are jacking the car up ?

 

Or have I missed something

[vRSAnt]

i cant see why the bump stop being upside down will cause a knock? unless your taking your car across a land rover assault course daily 

 

Solved - by myself

 

Kettering Headlands

I'm sorry to say were no help whatsoever - just helped flush £50 for "investigation" to confirm I've got lowered springs and lower profile tyres. Coo, funny that.

Despite pushing home about my idea that I'd cut my stops down a bit but that the stops were the wrong way around on that side, and that switching it around should solve it. They didn't listen.

 

Well guess what MY idea worked. You should all read this as a solid lesson that sometimes your guy feeling that YOU are right and everyone else is WRONG is important.

 

Was a bit of a pain though, I was a bit worried because I'd jacked on one side that the shock bolt went way out of position and was concerned I'd line it up again. Second thing to worry about was the lot crashing down and amputating my hand of course. Didn't happen though lol.

Easy to rotate the bump stop that was the wrong way around.

I suspect because the hard bit was the wrong way around it basically allowed the stop to be pushed too deep so not doing its job and then the shock lower could clatter on the top part of the top mount housing.

 

I was going into Unit18 later this week - but no need now (for further diagnostic work but probably was going to just have the standard susp refitted as I felt resigned that this was the only direction). Really surprised no one has come across this before and that despite discussing it with so many people not one person could see the logic of my idea of the problem.

 

So I'm kind of a happy bunny again, despite fuming that my local garage are so bloody unmotivated with helping.

Oh well only £50 down the drain could have been worse.