Well, I've had my 312's on for a few months now and even had them round knockhill on a trackday, but i must admit, up until Friday afternoon i had never really used them in anger.

Driving on a windy hilly Scottish b road on the way home from work i was rounding a bend at speed, i wont say what speed, but its a great road. When in the corner of my eye in the drainage ditch i see a 'brown ball', about a meter in diameter and about 20 meters ahead of me. all of a sudden this 'ball' explodes into life and Bambi bounces across the road in front of me. Cue anchors, no smoke, no skidding, no ABS, controlled reduction in speed in a controllable straight line. the 312's mixed with the fast road pads and the racing fluid were a godsend, i would stake a weeks wages on it, that if that had of been the standard disks, pads and fluid i would be eating venison sandwiches for lunch at the moment inadvertently picking bits of bumper from my teeth.

I have always been of the opinion that before you make your car faster you should make it safer, and this event has put the wax seal on that for me!

If youre using wax. Use Swissol !! LOL

I have to say Derek I'm enjoying mine.

Glad no-one (animal) was hurt

Perhaps I'd better start saving up then :(

I've had a similar experience, but substitute bambi for a brainless gimp in a micra, and I counted myself lucky also

I have to say Derek I'm enjoying mine.

Me too!

Well, I've had my 312's on for a few months now and even had them round knockhill on a trackday, but i must admit, up until Friday afternoon i had never really used them in anger.

Driving on a windy hilly Scottish b road on the way home from work i was rounding a bend at speed, i wont say what speed, but its a great road. When in the corner of my eye in the drainage ditch i see a 'brown ball', about a meter in diameter and about 20 meters ahead of me. all of a sudden this 'ball' explodes into life and Bambi bounces across the road in front of me. Cue anchors, no smoke, no skidding, no ABS, controlled reduction in speed in a controllable straight line. the 312's mixed with the fast road pads and the racing fluid were a godsend, i would stake a weeks wages on it, that if that had of been the standard disks, pads and fluid i would be eating venison sandwiches for lunch at the moment inadvertently picking bits of bumper from my teeth.

This is a very interesting technical discussion where braking is concerned.

I am currently running my vRS on standard disks & pads, & my Nordschleife use means I am very familiar with how they work when used very hard.

You didn't notice the ABS coming on during an emergency stop? No smoke or screeching? With even the standard brakes the ABS can come on quite often when really using them hard on track. This would suggest you were nowhere near the actual full power braking you could get with standard brakes. This may have been because you were not applying do or die pressure or could be the effect of the track /fast road pads which don't usually give full braking power until hot. These types of pads are great for repeated fade free braking but usually not as good as stock for one off cold stops. When using these pad types I am always careful to bed them in properly to avoid green fade & warm them up before using them in earnest, which isn't possible on the street.

With the bigger disks you could use stock pads with no fear of fade & still get full power from cold.

Racing fluid? This is designed to resist boiling during repeated max power stops. It has a higher boiling point than standard fluid. In a one off emergency stop it would have no real effect as it would not really heat up. Unfortunately though it does have a disasterous Achilles heal in that it is even more hygroscopic than standard fluid so soaks up water from the atmosphere quicker. This can be disasterous as the water boils off much earlier than the fluid & gives you gas in the hydraulic system. Racing teams do not leave their brake fluid in place for 2 or 3 years. They change it frequently for new fluid from a sealed canister. I definitely wouldn't use it on the road.

I have a set of 312s waiting in England but I have found that the standard set up is OK provided you maintain it properly & change pads & disks before they are completely past it.

Agreed Steve, if the wheels didnt lock up, then he wasnt even close to the limits of standard brakes, so the post effectively proves nowt :P

FWIW I actually found the standard brake setup quite good for everyday use, and not the dangerous liability they are made out to be on this forum

Agreed Steve' date=' if the wheels didnt lock up, then he wasnt even close to the limits of standard brakes, so the post effectively proves nowt :P

FWIW I actually found the standard brake setup quite good for everyday use, and not the dangerous liability they are made out to be on this forum [/quote']

Not entirley true mate. The true measure of a good braking system is to bring you to a short and controlled stop, not locking your wheels up and screaching to a halt.

I have 312's and the standard disk/pad setup and I have to say they are significantly better than the standards. I am idealy placed to compare as I also drive SWMBO's car so it isn't the placebo affect.

I've found 312 discs and ferodo ds2500 pads to give me a lot more feel, not just braking power. It's been discussed time and time again, and I agree with what you say.

Also, I've found a lot less brake fade, but don't know whether that's more due to the pads or the discs.

Of course, now, I have 4 pot brembos on 323mm discs with ds2500 pads. Even stickyish toyo proxes t1r tyres on dry roads can squeal a bit when pushed hard But I do find I have a lot more control until that point, so for me, it's a big

FWIW I actually found the standard brake setup quite good for everyday use, and not the dangerous liability they are made out to be on this forum.

That’s where Opinions are great things, they are like assholes, everybody’s got one, but had i made the statement....

My standard brakes are a...

dangerous liability.

i would be inclined to agree with you, i simply stated the fact that the 312's are a significant improvement over the standards.

I actually find the 312's far more analogue than the standards, before it was everything or nothing when braking hard, possibly the pads/disk combo,

You didn't notice the ABS coming on during an emergency stop? No smoke or screeching? With even the standard brakes the ABS can come on quite often when really using them hard on track. This would suggest you were nowhere near the actual full power braking you could get with standard brakes..

No-one mentioned Emergency stops I'm afraid, maybe mixed up with another post, i was simply commenting on how much of an improvement the change in brakes made over the standard set-up, the ease of speed reduction as aposed to previous experience on the 288mm set-up

fast road pads which don't usually give full braking power until hot. These types of pads are great for repeated fade free braking but usually not as good as stock for one off cold stops. When using these pad types I am always careful to bed them in properly to avoid green fade & warm them up before using them in earnest, which isn't possible on the street...

I wouldn’t consider the pads to have been 'cold' in any form considering the road and speed i was travelling at, but that’s what happens when you make assumptions-sometimes they are wrong.

Racing fluid? This is designed to resist boiling during repeated max power stops. It has a higher boiling point than standard fluid. In a one off emergency stop it would have no real effect as it would not really heat up

Maybe my mistake there, maybe i should have said "Fresh Brake Fluid" as i have recently had it renewed by star performance. and even you cant deny that fresh brake fluid works far better than 30k mile fluid, or at least it has far less compressability now due to the removal of the aerated fluid.

I have a set of 312s waiting in England but I have found that the standard set up is OK provided you maintain it properly & change pads & disks before they are completely past it.

Well again, you are entitled to your opinion of the brakes. For my style of driving and requirements i found the standard brakes below my expectations, and please dont get me wrong, i dont even think the 312's are the best thing in the world and there are still further improvements i would like to make on that front, but for the moment they will suffice for me.

Apologies if i have read these posts incorrectly but I’m a narky ******* with toothache today and i simply read posts that didn’t say alot and tried to flame my opinions. Oh the joys of the Internet.

I think I’m going to change the title of this thread to "I LIKE MY BRAKES" to remove any ambiguity

No-one mentioned Emergency stops I'm afraid' date=' maybe mixed up with another post, i was simply commenting on how much of an improvement the change in brakes made over the standard set-up, the ease of speed reduction as aposed to previous experience on the 288mm set-up

[/quote']

Having re-read it, I can see where you are coming from, but my natural instinct, like Steve Walker was that it was implied (however vaguely) that you had to make an emergency stop and that if you'd had the 288 setup you would have hit the animal, but thats what I'd disagree with, when you consider that the wheels did not lock up...

Not trolling mate, just how I read it thats all.

How about leaving it like this: if you think the standard brakes are OK, then don't change them... :rubchin:

How about leaving it like this: if you think the standard brakes are OK, then don't change them... :rubchin:

Wise words mate.............:P

Good conclusion

Sorry if people have got upset here. I considered this a good opportunity for a discussion. Not an arguement.

I am a graduate engineer who spent 2 years studying for an MSc in Automotive Engineering & as such I like to be objective where modifications are concerned. It is easy to change things on a car but harder to make them actually better. To know if something is better it has to be tested at the limits, not just feel better subjectively at 50% or 75%.

It is amazing coming to a place like the Nordschleife where I drive, to see cars with every modification known to man fitted at great expense, being overtaken by bog standard 20 year old wrecks being driven by experienced drivers. I frequently hear that the vRS has dodgy brakes & dodgy handling. So far this year I have given passenger laps in my vRS to a driver of a Skyline with 600 hp & a Ferrari Modena both of whom I overtook out on the track in corners.They were both surprised & shocked by the ride & believe me I am no race driver, just a keen elderly amateur with a lot of laps.

What I was hoping to try & say is that there is no such thing as a modification where all is good & nothing worse. I fitted bigger brakes with very hard race pads to my 986 last year. The result with stock tyres was that the ABS was coming on frequently which managed to lengthen the braking distance! Not at all desireable. With soft compound tyres & different pads the situation is now fine but it took a few trouser soilers before I got there. It is always good talking to people at the track who drive quickly about which mods made a difference & which were a waste of cash, since you know they have pushed them to the limit.

Incidentally, a BMW did hit a deer on the track here at 115mph at the apex of a corner 2 weeks ago. He didn't dare hit the brakes or he would have spun off over a 60 ft drop. He told me that the smell of grilling venison coming off the exhaust manifold was there for the whole day!

I had an "oh dear" experience on the way into work this morning.

Saw Mrs dear decide to cross the road about 50 yards in front of me. No problem. But then I thought "what about bambi jnr?"

Well, only too darn right. Bam "kamikazi" Bi decided to jump out right in front of my wheels. I had already slowed down and didn't hit her but was sadly amusing to see how panick-stricken she was. Nearly forgot how to run across the road, legs were in all four directions, skidding on the tarmac, etc :(

I'd be more bothered about the potential damage to my car Nearly hit a very large deer once on the England / Scotland border just past Kielder late one night, new underwear was needed

PS. Good post Steve.

. He told me that the smell of grilling venison coming off the exhaust manifold was there for the whole day!

Very fast food

Bet it smelt good too.

Good post though.

I find the bigger 312 discs & calipers to improve the feel over the standard 288mm brakes. I have much more confidence on the roads. They have the same inital bite, but if you press the pedal further to stop quicker, it's far better than the standard set up.

Not once have I provoked the ABS system to take over, whether it be the standard setup or new set up.

I understand why people would prefer the extra feel - but is it really anything to do with brake size? My Golf has weedy discs even compared to the standard vRS ones and yet they offer way more feel than those.

The Fabia is a fair bit heavier than the Golf, though.

I'd say the combination of bigger discs, calipers & pads helps. Have you seen the size of the caliper piston compared with the standard one? Same amount of pressure applied to a much larger surface area.