Some advice please

[mstafford1986]

Hi all,

Was driving down the motorway yesterday when my engine management light came on and the car started labouring badly, I pulled over and rang SKODA assistance who sent the rac out! The rac guy pluged his computer in and it came up engine misfire in cylinder 2 and 4. He changed the coil pack over on cylinder 4 and it cured the problem and I limped the car back to SKODA to get it sorted. Got a phone call today to get told that the car has pressure issues and that the car is running lean and that because I am running a k&n pannel filter this is the reason for the issue and that my warrantyay be void, has anyone else experienced this?

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[mstafford1986]

Sorry car is a 2013 vrs with 17k on it

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[Ootohere]

Have they had  the Spark Plugs out and checked, all 4.

Did the RAC man remove 1 or more spark plugs and look?

 

 

I checked a 17,000 mile Polo GTI Twincharger on Saturday and one Spark Plug was burnt out.

(this one was running on Shell 95ron Fuel Saver)

 

A member in Spain had a similar problem and that was the High Pressure Fuel pump.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/299778-fabia-vrs-stall-on-motorway

 

Your K&N  filter might well have caused a problem like strangling the engine a little, they are crap. IMHO.

 

http://skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Brochures/Warranty-Booklet-single.pdf

(page 6)

They might well try the line that you have Voided your Warranty with the K&N filter, and they might be right by their T&C's.

Probably best get the Spark plugs checked, and a standard filter in and 98 or 99 ron petrol and see how things are.

[giandougl]

If something works OK leave it alone.. suggest don't dabble unless fully clued-up..

[Ootohere]

Any update?

[sharkrider]

I would argue the k&n is a replacement element just like a generic one you could get from motor spares shop... It won't make it run lean, the computer will detect airflow and fuel accordingly...

[Ootohere]

New they are nice and fresh and flow, they clog very easily,  

and then there are some that clean and treat them their self & make a dogs dinner of it,

as my youngest did on one of my cars, that started drinking petrol.

 

95 ron is not the best idea, but most of us know that, and do not run it.

& K&N filters are no better than fresh standard ones, and can be miles worse.  JIME.

 

Anyway, putting the car into be checked or recovered and it has a K&N filter in is enough for SKODA UK to say you have Invalidated the Warranty, so you need to argue you have not.

Easy enough to try and do, but a PITA.

 

eg.

Not on a Skoda, on a Suzuki, but still an Engine with a ECU and MAF, and not an old or oiled, just one dirty  that got pretty quick K&N filter,

 but it was stangling the engine and it was running very rich, not lean.

So £40 worth that might sound better for a while , verse a £17 changed regularly, its up to each to decide.

For where it is Wet, or lots of dirt and long life is required in a harsh environments i might go for K&N.

But would go a Pipercross first

[Furbytom]

Lots of people have had that issue I believe and I doubt they are all using a K+N.

Any excuse for skida to wriggle out of a warranty claim maybe? Id be surprised if the dealer reported the filter to SUK tho - it's in the dealers interest to be doing warranty work as they earn money this way....

[Ootohere]

It needs to be a warning though to Twincharger Owners, especially those that know they can have issues.

 

A poxy little performance increase with a Tuning Box or a Air Filter or Induction kit can cause you problems if you need Warranty Work.

Dealerships get the work, but they make a Warranty Application and are not just free to Turn Blind Eyes, even though many will.

 

RAC Staff see enough cars every week to pick up on stuff fitted to cars, well fitted or badly.

They might ignore lots and not put on the Report, but thats up to them,

you can not count on it.

 

It might make no difference what parts you have on,  The Twincharger Engines can have issues.

but once a car is into a Workshop you never know who sees it,

A Skoda Warranty Manager in a Workshop might well look in as a Technician does a Diagnostic because they happen to be there.

 

If people want to Modify, it seems sensible to do it properly then just accept your Warranty might be Void.

Gambling with a £5000 cost to replace an engine even to get a 10% power increase needs thinking about.  IMO.

 

If you want to gamble then thats fair enough, but maybe best do it was you have no Warranty Underwritten by some Company,

& if it goes Tits up you know it will cost you yourselve.

[Furbytom]

Definitely a useful warning. I stuck a Milltek exhaust on mine which some might say was abit of a gamble but luckily I was ok with no engine or oil issues (probs were a little less well known back then). Obviously I would have taken it off ASAP prior to being seen by the dealer if I suspected any major issue lol! ;-)

[mstafford1986]

Spoke with Skoda uk on Friday and the dealer had reported the filter to them. Skoda say the filter has not invalidated my warranty but if the fault was caused by the filter then it's a different story. The filter is 1 month old and has only done 1700ish miles so I would be doubtful it would be clogged that quickly. I have spoke with k&n direct and they also shared the view that the car has sensors to control air furl mixture and that the filter could not cause the issue described. As a result if SKODA cover the work then great but if they say it's a result of the filter then they have to sent proof to K&N as their warranty also covers your engine as we'll and any damage caused by there product they will correct.

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[Ootohere]

Good.   but that is the PITA bit i mentioned.  

Just another complication, but since your type of engine has known issues, hopefully that can be dismissed as the problem.

 

So,

what does the Dealer say after doing a Diagnosis on it.,  

(After fitting a Standard Filter before doing a  Diagnosing. So you will probably need to pay for that Filter)

 

 Misfire Cylinder 3,  Faults Coil or Plug, Low Fuel Pressure or what, no fault logged,

or not checked yet.

Because they are going to wait until Skoda UK says it is OK to check?

[mstafford1986]

Good. but that is the PITA bit i mentioned.

Just another complication, but since your type of engine has known issues, hopefully that can be dismissed as the problem.

So,

what does the Dealer say after doing a Diagnosis on it.,

(After fitting a Standard Filter before doing a Diagnosing. So you will probably need to pay for that Filter)

Misfire Cylinder 3, Faults Coil or Plug, Low Fuel Pressure or what, no fault logged,

or not checked yet.

Because they are going to wait until Skoda UK says it is OK to check?

They have said it is down slight compression on cylinder 3&4 and down a lot of compression on cylinder 2. They are starting the strip down tomorrow to find the cause of the fault. My car has had an oil usage issue ( 12l in 16k to which the garage has said it used none lol ) so I am assuming this has something to do with the failure

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[Ootohere]

I would say it is the usual problem that the High Oil users suffer.

 

To late now,  but Anyone that suspects their engine of High Oil use really should leave modifying well alone,

only use Skoda Dealerships to service the car & protect your Wrranty, just to be on the safe side.

 

Standard Plugs, Air Filter, correct Oil & Filter, because they can pick up on anything non standard.

 

If not needing them to pay on Warranty Work,

then fill your boots.

 

All the best with it.

 

george

[vxh26]

<snip>

My car has had an oil usage issue (12l in 16k to which the garage has said it used none)

<snip>

I don't understand this - did you put the 12 litres into the car or did the garage?  If the former, why would the garage know; if the latter then how many times was your car serviced?

 

Do you check your oil level regularly?  If not, what indication did you have that you were using an excessive amount of oil?

 

 

ps - hope you get your car sorted - at no cost to you!

Edited 2 February, 2014 by vxh26

[Ootohere]

The 28 page Oil Thread started with the OP's post.  October 2012.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/252759-fabia-vrs-oil

[vxh26]

The 28 page Oil Thread started with the OP's post.  October 2012.

<snip>

And . . . ???

 

That thread is more than 800 posts long, I'm not sure quite how it relates to my questions to which a simple answer from mstafford would be most welcome

[Ootohere]

Sorry to have wasted your time,

You seem very interested in the Historic background to the Twinchargers.

i just thought you might be interested in the story from the OP going to get the new revised engine,

a CTHE engine in 2013, where he was being told the New Engine was to be sorting the problem.

 

As the Proof of the pudding that the change to the CTHE did little other than reducing for a while the number of problem engines,

it seems ironic that the person that started the thread ended up with an Oil User.

 

Obviously the OP can give you the story of his engine. 

[mstafford1986]

And . . . ???

That thread is more than 800 posts long, I'm not sure quite how it relates to my questions to which a simple answer from mstafford would be most welcome

I have put the oil in And the garage put 1l in, have had 3 oil tests done with the end result each time of it's not using any oil to which I said "must be me drinking it then" but went through the proper procedure of logging it with SKODA uk and explaining that I would no longer keep topping it up with vast amount off oil and would go by the handbook requirements and that I was confident the car engine would fail, "it did". So hopefully they don't mess about and admin it's a lemon engine and fix it

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[vxh26]

I have put the oil in and the garage put 1l in. I have had 3 oil tests done with the end result each time of it's not using any oil to which I said "must be me drinking it then" but went through the proper procedure of logging it with SKODA uk and explaining that I would no longer keep topping it up with vast amount of oil and would go by the handbook requirements and that I was confident the car engine would fail, "it did". So hopefully they don't mess about and admit it's a lemon engine and fix it

Sorry - still confused - what was the reasoning behind three oil tests (changes)?  How frequently were you checking the oil level?  I realise that these oil tests would explain the use of twelve litres . . . I think.

 

 

Sorry to have wasted your time,

<snip>

You didn't although I did have a look at the first few pages of that thread and was confused as to the relevance.

 

<snip>

You seem very interested in the Historic background to the Twinchargers.

i just thought you might be interested in the story from the OP going to get the new revised engine,

a CTHE engine in 2013, where he was being told the New Engine was to be sorting the problem.

 

As the Proof of the pudding that the change to the CTHE did little other than reducing for a while the number of problem engines,

it seems ironic that the person that started the thread ended up with an Oil User.

 

Obviously the OP can give you the story of his engine. 

As you say, I am interested.  However, what really interests me is the specifics of how frequently the Fabia vRS engine fails, how a low oil level would be spotted by the average owner, how an impending failure might be recognised and whether the "newer" engine has in any way addressed the problem(s) that necessitated a replacement engine.

 

I realise that you know a great deal about the CAVE & CTHE engines and the associated problems - I don't but would like to know more.

 

I'm not clear how many CAVE & CTHE engines have actually been replaced.  In some cases it appears that people have had more than one engine replaced under warranty.  I am sceptical that many of the thousands of people who have bought a Fabia vRS and who must be reasonably enthusiastic about cars check their oil level with any frequency.

 

The essential point I am trying to make is that I would very much like to read some actual hard facts about the %age of failures, how effective Skoda / VAG have been in trying to rectify the problems and what can be done by an average owner to avoid them.  I accept that most of this information is probably only available to Skoda & VAG and I am highly unlikely to get any real insight to it

 

ps1 - I do read (and try to understand) anything that you post and that I see

ps2 - test driving a vRS is unlikely to tell me much about the failure rate and I don't trust a salesman to give me honest information even if he does know the facts - forewarned is forearmed!

[Ootohere]

An Average vRS owner probably wanted a nippy car and looked into them a bit beore buying,

and many will know to check the Oil when running in a new car.

Or read the Owners Manual and know to do it..

An average owner might have had faster cars that used oil or not before they bought a vRS,

which can do very good MPG for its power.

 

There are not many of thousands that have bought the vRS in the UK,

CAVE 2010-2012 1800 or so Registered in the UK.

CTHE late 2012- 2014 about 600.  so up to now probably under 3,000, likely  2,500.

 Some have had 2 or more vRS or Twinchargers.

 

Then about 3,000-3,500 GTI, Ibiza,A1 185 ps,from 2009- 2014 in the UK.

Any of them can be faulty and the nearest we can get to is around 20% of the CAVE engines so far.

 

There are Failures around the World where the Twinchargers have been sold.

A Polo GTI owner in Australia took VW Australia to court and lost, on technicalities.

 

Ask Skoda UK or VAG the Failure Rate.  They might actually tell you, but i doubt it.

 

People find out their car uses Oil because they do check, and they read about the cars, or a warning light comes on,

then they check,

then they contact a dealer or go online etc.

Look in here in quite a few cases, then go again or get shot of the car in some cases,

that is before it is known that it really is an Oil User.

[mstafford1986]

Sorry - still confused - what was the reasoning behind three oil tests (changes)? How frequently were you checking the oil level? I realise that these oil tests would explain the use of twelve litres . . . I think.

You didn't although I did have a look at the first few pages of that thread and was confused as to the relevance.

As you say, I am interested. However, what really interests me is the specifics of how frequently the Fabia vRS engine fails, how a low oil level would be spotted by the average owner, how an impending failure might be recognised and whether the "newer" engine has in any way addressed the problem(s) that necessitated a replacement engine.

I realise that you know a great deal about the CAVE & CTHE engines and the associated problems - I don't but would like to know more.

I'm not clear how many CAVE & CTHE engines have actually been replaced. In some cases it appears that people have had more than one engine replaced under warranty. I am sceptical that many of the thousands of people who have bought a Fabia vRS and who must be reasonably enthusiastic about cars check their oil level with any frequency.

The essential point I am trying to make is that I would very much like to read some actual hard facts about the %age of failures, how effective Skoda / VAG have been in trying to rectify the problems and what can be done by an average owner to avoid them. I accept that most of this information is probably only available to Skoda & VAG and I am highly unlikely to get any real insight to it

ps1 - I do read (and try to understand) anything that you post and that I see

ps2 - test driving a vRS is unlikely to tell me much about the failure rate and I don't trust a salesman to give me honest information even if he does know the facts - forewarned is forearmed!

I check the oil every week and every time I checked the oil was almost off the dip stick so this is how I came to realise there was an oil issue

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[mstafford1986]

Just a little update in the car issue, turned out to be nothing to do with the air filter and the car is getting a new engine after just 16,700k from new :( fills me with so much confidence in the car now :(

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[sharkrider]

didn't think they would try to blag your warrenty off for a "replacement element"

 

shame about the engine, another CTHE bites the dust :(

[mstafford1986]

Guess who is back with a new pacemaker!

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