my dad is loving his 1.2 fabia tsi and he made a bold comment today saying he bets its as fast as an 80s hot hatch. its just let down by its jelly like handling. what do you all think?

Not sure really. 80s hatches will have been lighter than modern ones, so maybe they'll have been quicker.

Not sure if you class the XR2 or XR3i as hot hatch's but I'm sure our Monte TSI 86 is better than the former and not far of the latter, which ran out of go on an autobahn at just over 115mph indicated, as I remember in those dim and distant days of 1990.

 

 

TP

I was around, driving as well during the 80's and would say that mikejay's dad isn't too far off the mark.

Considering most of the hot hatches of the time were 1.6L injected motors, the 0-60 times weren't that much quicker than what a 105 TSI can do now, yes they were lighter and handled better because of this but they wouldn't leave a Monte or any TSI Fabia for dead in a straight line.

The 0-60/70 times wouldn't be much different which isn't too shabby considering Fabias are 1.2L and weigh over a tonne but on the twisties, the 80s hot hatches would be leaving them then crashing into a ditch and killing the driver at the same time.

These are the stats for a XR2:

 

Dates produced: 1984-1989; Price new: £5713; Top speed: 112mph; 0-60mph: 10.2sec; Economy: 32.9mpg; CO2: na; Kerb weight: 839kg; Engine type: 4 cyls in line, 1597cc, petrol; Power: 96bhp at 6000rpm; Torque: 97lb ft at 4000rpm; Gearbox: 5-spd manual

 

Hope this helps.

I used to own a mk2 8 valve Golf GTi, I would say the 105 1.2 TSI is on a par with it performance wise.

And to complete the circle....

 

TSI 1.2 (105) 1197cc, 105bhp,  0-60 = 10.1, top speed = 119mph, 53mpg (ha ha)

 

So its almost identical performance to a XR2

Is your fathers a 105 ps 1.2 tsi, ?

even better if it is just a 86 ps, he can look forward to mapping it.

yeah its a 105. trying get him come to the rolling road day at awesome in april. my uncle has a monte cr too. doubt he will come though

I had a XR3i Mk1 (Mk3 Escort) when I was 17 back in 1986. Three of my mates did as well and all four cars were identical even down to the driving lights, decals and CB aerials. Also now have a 1.2TSI 105 Fabia.

 

1984 XR3i, 105PS, 137NM, 0-62 in 9.7s, 116mph, 920kg.

2013 1.2Tsi, 105PS, 175NM, 0-62 in 10.1, 119mph, 1055kg.

 

So performance close but feel? No totally different.

 

The XR3i was low with very stiff suspension, the steering was unassisted and felt alive, you felt everything. The old K Jetronic injection gave a top end rush and the car was quicker from the lights than 95% of other cars being driven then.

The Fabia is tall and soft so rolls a lot and the steering is light with very little feedback. The engine is refined and has decent midrange for good performance but there's not much character to it. And of course the traffic light grand prix is a lot more competitive now.

 

So performance similar, the experience very different.

 

Cheers

Lee

Capri 2.8i special for me......160bhp @ the flywheel.....don't think the monte's would keep up with that.....

Capri 2.8i special for me......160bhp @ the flywheel.....don't think the monte's would keep up with that.....

 

After the XR3i I  had a Sierra 2.8i 4X4 with turbo technics conversion. Insurance was a bit cheaper for 19 year olds in the 80's.

 

Cheers

Lee

33 Years ago the Capri was just under £8,000 new though.

 

The Average Wage given on websites is about £8,500,

I recon i was on about £6,000 then.

I had a Mk 1 VW Scirocco GTI; 1600cc and 110bhp so from a power perspective there is not much difference. From memory, the kerb weight of the 'roc was just 800kg due to the complete lack of crumple zones and safety kit, so power to weight ratio would favour the older generation.

I had a XR3i Mk1 (Mk3 Escort) when I was 17 back in 1986. Three of my mates did as well and all four cars were identical even down to the driving lights, decals and CB aerials. Also now have a 1.2TSI 105 Fabia.

 

1984 XR3i, 105PS, 137NM, 0-62 in 9.7s, 116mph, 920kg.

2013 1.2Tsi, 105PS, 175NM, 0-62 in 10.1, 119mph, 1055kg.

 

So performance close but feel? No totally different.

 

The XR3i was low with very stiff suspension, the steering was unassisted and felt alive, you felt everything. The old K Jetronic injection gave a top end rush and the car was quicker from the lights than 95% of other cars being driven then.

The Fabia is tall and soft so rolls a lot and the steering is light with very little feedback. The engine is refined and has decent midrange for good performance but there's not much character to it. And of course the traffic light grand prix is a lot more competitive now.

 

So performance similar, the experience very different.

 

Cheers

Lee

My Scirocco used to eat XR3is for breakfast!

Cars were more interesting back then; remember getting a lift home in a work mates Ford Cortina IV Sport 2.3 v6 when his seat collapsed, this would probably be around 1983/4. Transpired later this was due to a rotten floor pan, which left me to steer to the side of the road from the passenger seat, while he recovered from being sent to the back of the car

 

Quite scary at the time but funny on reflection.

 

 

TP

My Scirocco used to eat XR3is for breakfast!

 

The Scirocco and Golf were about half a second quicker off the line on paper. On the road there wasn't that much difference down a back road. Three of my mates had XR3i's, one had a Golf GTi and the other a 205 GTi 1.6. The 205 was the quickest down a twisty backroad.

 

When Vauxhall brought out the 2.0 Astra GTE and Peugeot put the 1.9 in the 205 GTi (1986) the performance of the hot hatch was increased significantly. But by this time (19 year old) I'd bought the 220bhp Sierra. Two of my XR3i palls swapped for the Mk1 white RS Turbo, they were very quick with a bit of tuning.

 

But for younger members there wasn't the competition then. Now a GTi is quick but it will have stiff competition from the lights when even a salesman's 2.0D reps car can hit 60 in 7.5 seconds. In the mid 80's your typical rep had a 1.6 Cortina 75bhp with a 0-62 of around 14.5 seconds. Your best selling hatches were 1.1 Fiesta's (50bhp)  and 1.3 Escorts (65bhp).

Sitting at the lights witha light hatch with 105bhp meant you were usually a good 5 seconds quicker to 60 than the car at the side of you.

 

There wasn't much about in the mid 80's that would destroy a hot hatch from the line and the faster saloons from BMW and Merc were a very rare site on the roads.

 

You can still have fun in a modern GTi but you have to be prepared to be embarrassed when that debadged 535d beats you from the lights. 

 

Cheers

Lee

Edited 22 February, 201412 yr by logiclee

Cars were more interesting back then; remember getting a lift home in a work mates Ford Cortina IV Sport 2.3 v6 when his seat collapsed, this would probably be around 1983/4. Transpired later this was due to a rotten floor pan, which left me to steer to the side of the road from the passenger seat, while he recovered from being sent to the back of the car

 

Quite scary at the time but funny on reflection.

 

 

TP

 

I had an auto Mk4 2.3 Cortina straight after passing my test. Only 109bhp and 0-62 in 12 seconds but it sounded awesome. Black Vinyl roof too!

I've owned 2 mk 2 golf gti 8 valves plus 1 16 v and i's say they "felt" slightly quicker than my Monte tsi does.

But handling on my dropped Silver Mk2 was phenomenal!....i'd be interested to compare if i ever drop my monte.

As above, having no power steering was much better for cornering confidence and driving on the edge.

But yep i'd roughly agree with the OP's dads statement.

What the Monte needs is the tuning to 125bhp which would be more like hot hatch territory.....i struggled to pass my mate in his dodgy old diesel vectra the other day when i had a car full of billy bloaters.we need more power.

My m8 use to have a RS1600 injection the RS version of the XR3i couldn't match my 2.8I Capri

Back in the I had a 1.9 205 gti converted with twin 45 webbers, fast road cam and 1600 box............fast beast in its day.....may of given my vrs a run for its money......

The Scirocco and Golf were about half a second quicker off the line on paper. On the road there wasn't that much difference down a back road. Three of my mates had XR3i's, one had a Golf GTi and the other a 205 GTi 1.6. The 205 was the quickest down a twisty backroad.

 

When Vauxhall brought out the 2.0 Astra GTE and Peugeot put the 1.9 in the 205 GTi (1986) the performance of the hot hatch was increased significantly. But by this time (19 year old) I'd bought the 220bhp Sierra. Two of my XR3i palls swapped for the Mk1 white RS Turbo, they were very quick with a bit of tuning.

 

But for younger members there wasn't the competition then. Now a GTi is quick but it will have stiff competition from the lights when even a salesman's 2.0D reps car can hit 60 in 7.5 seconds. In the mid 80's your typical rep had a 1.6 Cortina 75bhp with a 0-62 of around 14.5 seconds. Your best selling hatches were 1.1 Fiesta's (50bhp)  and 1.3 Escorts (65bhp).

Sitting at the lights witha light hatch with 105bhp meant you were usually a good 5 seconds quicker to 60 than the car at the side of you.

 

There wasn't much about in the mid 80's that would destroy a hot hatch from the line and the faster saloons from BMW and Merc were a very rare site on the roads.

 

You can still have fun in a modern GTi but you have to be prepared to be embarrassed when that debadged 535d beats you from the lights. 

 

Cheers

Lee

I'm trying to cast my mind back to when I used to go and watch the production saloon car races in the 80s. From memory (and I am getting on so it is fading a bit) the Golf 16v was King. The XR3i was nowhere; relatively speaking it handled like a dog and there was no way it would keep up with the Golf on a twisty road. The RS1600i, developed for racing, was streets ahead of the XR3i. The RS Turbo was quick, but the turbo meant that it was not in the same class as the Golf. The 205GTI handled superbly, but its 130bhp was not enough to keep up with the Golf on track.

 

The BTCC was a different kettle of fish altogether. The changes that that Touring Car rules allowed to the suspension meant that the Astra GTE ruled the roost; it's excellent 2-litre engine was head and shoulders above the Golfs 1.8 or the Pug's 1.9. The RS Turbo was quite successful in Touring cars before Ford released a rather rapid Sierra that completely changed Touring Car racing for many years.

I'm trying to cast my mind back to when I used to go and watch the production saloon car races in the 80s. From memory (and I am getting on so it is fading a bit) the Golf 16v was King. The XR3i was nowhere; relatively speaking it handled like a dog and there was no way it would keep up with the Golf on a twisty road. The RS1600i, developed for racing, was streets ahead of the XR3i. The RS Turbo was quick, but the turbo meant that it was not in the same class as the Golf. The 205GTI handled superbly, but its 130bhp was not enough to keep up with the Golf on track.

 

The BTCC was a different kettle of fish altogether. The changes that that Touring Car rules allowed to the suspension meant that the Astra GTE ruled the roost; it's excellent 2-litre engine was head and shoulders above the Golfs 1.8 or the Pug's 1.9. The RS Turbo was quite successful in Touring cars before Ford released a rather rapid Sierra that completely changed Touring Car racing for many years.

 

Racing in the 80's was not as bad as it is today but even still the touring cars were very far from standard Road cars.

 

The RS1600 came with trick adjustable suspension so Ford could use that on the track cars but on the road it wasn't much different from an XR3i.

 

When Ford introduced the Sierra Cosworth in 1986 the game really did change for affordable on road performance and for touring cars. Hot hatches certainly didn't trouble my 220bhp 4x4 Sierra in the late 80's. I couldn't live with 14mpg today though.

Some years later I bought a Subaru Impreza Series McRae Prodrive Special Edition with Prodrive Performance Pack. Although it was quicker and more economical than the Sierra if I could have one back for a weekend toy I'd have the Sierra.

 

Cheers

Lee

I'd say from all the cars that i've owned that my Monte is closest in performance to my Polo GTI year 2K, so a warm hatch.

Since around that time cars gave been far too beefy so cant really compare to the stripped out with zero crash protection 80's wagons.

Even my Nova SR was more fun than my Monte :(

But the Monte is what it is...a sensible and nice looking car for a budget price & that's all good.

Don't forget the TSI is actually kicking out closer to 115BHP and 195NM and will do 62 in around 9s; don't know how accurate the figs were for the old hot hatches but I suspect there is more play in the figures for the modern turbo engine cars.

 

I agree though that the old cars often feel a lot faster than they were. Even my old Felicia 1.6 (75BHP and 135NM officially) felt quite powerful at the time. Partly because it was light and partly because there was little in the way of fancy electronics smoothing out your throttle inputs and no traction control either. When you asked for more beans you got them immediately