I think everyone shiuld just drop all the oil out and refill with 3.6l at least once every 100 miles. No need to worry about over or under filling then.

All you can hope for went dipping the oil on a vRS is went cold it's at the top of the dip stick & went it's hot it is some were in the middle of the dip stick

I have lost the will to live about oil!  It all seems more complex than brain surgery.  As a new VRS owner (1200 miles), and having read the handbook, I agree that there is a light that comes on to say "check your oil level".  Those clever people at VW must think this works, and will not damage the engine at that point.  I got a 1litre pack of oil with the car which sits in the boot - so if my light comes on I can bung some oil in (not sure how much, however)....so....why all this complicated discussion about dip sticks?  I just love to drive the beast, and trust all the technology it has got.  If the engine is trashed before the light comes on then its surely a warranty issue?

Yesterday mine when hot is a few mm below the top of the hatching well within the owners manual tolerance. Ive just done a cold dip and its just into zone A the flat bit. I started the car for a moment from cold and re checked and its at the bottom of the hatching just in. Any comments by the looks of it you need a degree in taking a oil reading on these cars.

Whatever you do, do it consistently. Mine is a check after my weekly visit to my olds. Same 40km drive, same 15 minute wait. Any less time and the dipstick is too hot to handle - Aussie heat... Also, I've had instances where after ten minutes the dipstick has been dry, and five minutes later it's up to the top of the cross-hatched ( B ) section. I aim to keep the level in the top half of the B section.

Edited 23 February, 201412 yr by OzFabia

Thats what im doing i get it hot and leave it around 5 mins and make sure its in the top half of the hatched area. Seems to work for me and ive never had the yellow come on. So i must be doing something right. Cheers

Basically & to be frank,  (but really i am george)

 

VAG did not get the warning light or message right on the Twincharger.

It can be more than 1.2 litres short of 3.6 litres and still no light or message.

Just like they did not get the Reliability of many of the engines right because of poor quality Control of parts or tolerances,

They Revised the engine, and still have not actually got it correct.

Some if even a small percentage have issues.

(A Revised Owners Manual for putting in a new vRS for the cars functions,

oil & fuel etc, would have been a simple thing to do,

Written or Translated by someone with a fulll grasp of the English Language.)

 

What they did get right is how efficient the Twincharger can keep its self cool.

Radiator and Oil Cooler.

But to cool an engine takes energy.

 

But Coolant cools and Oil is also a coolant. & the spec and capacity of oil can have the engine performing to how it was designed to.

Running all nice and tickitty boo.

The correct level & quality of oil means that fans and coolers are required less.

That means the running at the correct & efficient temperature can produce maximum power or return better economy through efficiency.

 

Some Quality or Performance oils will have your engine run a degree or 2 lower in the same situation as Quantum lll Long Life does.

So that can give better economy, and performance, just through the cooler engine,

or cooling quicker from being used hard.

 

So running 0.5 litres low might have the engine & systems working more to keep the engine oil temp down.

& 1 litre low, harder again.

 

Now if you have 3.6 litres of oil in, and within 1200 miles you have a Warning Light or Low Oil message,

You have used over 1 litres of oil, which is a bit much really.

If you have used more than 1.2 litres before topping up,

you just made that engine work harder and probably have been wasting your money on petrol. At least for maybe 600 of that last 1,200 miles.

 

It is not Rocket Science, just the internal combustion engine.

In this case a 1390 cc that produces a minimum 180ps.

Hardly a problem to see that it has at least 3 litres of oil in the engine,

& better still 3.6 litres.

 

Running it with only 2.4 litres of oil and still no warning light on does not strike me as if 

VAG have it right with the Warning Light or Low Oil Message, to check your oil level.

I would disagree, modern engines have come on alot,modern OIL has come on alot. I nearly always run mine lower than "max" as long as its above minimum (minimum being taken as ok for the engine by definition, or it wouldnt be minimum! clever engineers have stated that this ammount of oil is enough, and I take faith in their abilities!, many many millions of pounds have been spent in research and development!) it will do its job.... granted I do service it ever 10k instead of the variable service that goes (sometimes) almost twice as long, BUT I have never had an issue with my engines, they do their job, simples. my last one with 50k was running 200bhp for most of that time too, did 144mph on the autobahns (for a sustained time. now this really does stress an engine!) and had been on numerous tracks, I ALWAYS boot it from cold! (PMSL) and although I drive home gently through my village , as safety dictates, the engine is still hot enough when turned off for the motor to keep pushing water around the turbo to cool it.....

 

I will possibly be keeping this car over 100k.... I already have many track days booked for this year! I really am not worried about the engine, I do not think its delicate or needs too much nannying.....

 

personally, i think you have either a good one or a bad one... I respect your opinion George , that you beleive 2.4 litres is not enough oil to do its job, but personally my opinion is their quality control on building these engines (and/or sourcing the parts) is poor, and leads to poor engines being released.... NOT thats its engine design faults. (edit: although they did redisign alot in the CTHE!)  I went to the skoda factory in mlada boleslav and wathed the czeks building engines, they built the 3 cylinder engines and the 1.2's.... they are really quite reliable... you know what the skoda guy said when I asked where my engine came from? (Audi in Germany) he says...... hhhmmmm different factory , different production, ect ect ....

Edited 23 February, 201412 yr by sharkrider

Are you saying then because you have had no issues it is OK to have as little as 2.4 litres in now,

no Low oil light or warning,

Just trust to the light, go now for a hard Sunday Afternoon blast,  no idea how much oil is in at the start of the afternoon.

start from cold and get the oil to maybe 110 + *oC later on,

and if the Check oil light comes on, stop put your litre of oil in and carry on?

 

Some have done that, and if the plugs are not good, and it has the low oil,

the result might be the burnt out spark plug, or valves, or just the Misfire, EPC light on &  Reduced Power ,

Stop and call Skoda Assist. Or drive home in 'limp mode'

A few have done that already.

 

Each to their own, but dipping cold oil after buying a car, new or used, see where the oil is and top up when required and sometimes check after a trip once you stop seems easy enough to many.

 

Feed it good Fuel, keep it topped up with good oil to the correct quantity, 

Good Spark Plugs and good air filter & thats just a basic running of a car to get decent performance before even considering Tuning for more output.

Use what is there already to its best.

 

PS, i had a Toyota iQ 1.0 Multidrive 3 cylinder, thrashed from cold, possible to rev the nuts off. Mine was Euro 5 after 2010.

Perfect Engine, used no oil, did a great economy when driven easy and still OK when thrashed,  and far superior an engine to that in the Up! Mii Citigo, and on a decent gearbox.

again, these were the pics of my plugs after 40,000 miles, no misfires ect .... no issues. people are being panicked by posters into replacing plugs every 10k.... I dont think they should be. all 4 of my plugs looked the same..

 

People do not need to be panicked, they just need to be aware that the previous owner never treated their car like you do.

 

There is the possibility of failed plugs in Cylinder 3.

There are members here that have had them, less than 15,000 miles and less than 25,000 mles more commonly.

Sometimes they notice the fuel consumption increase and sometimes it is the EPC light or Exhaust Emission Light that alerts them.

 

Thats not my failed plugs, that is others cars,.

 

There are plenty of good cars and engines, 

but no idea why you think it is panicing or me panicking people to give notice of things that need checked.

 

Running a Twincharger on 95 ron might cause spark plug life to be less than 40,000 miles.

& misfires while on it on Turbo might cause Engine problems.

So if buying a Used car, maybe get the plugs changed.

I just like to be an opposing force George its in my nature

Good cop and moaning cop would make a good tv series.

 

They are great and amazing cars but mostly Amazing engines, and need really very little in the way of TLC, but some do not just a little attention now and again.

& a Technician or Service Desk with knowledge of Twinchargers would help.

 

The Owners Handbook is really really hopeless. JIMO.

I'm gonna start choking it at the end of the straights when I lift off to make sure it doesn't seize

Not a worry, they never seize, the rings crack before that happens!

I take it that the vRS has a wet rather than dry sump?  Surely the oil level should be checked after the engine has cooled down so that the oil in the return galleries, cylinder head valleys, etc. has drained down to the sump?

 

It is my understanding that the function of oil in any engine is to lubricate the moving parts, move dirt and particles to the oil filter, dissipate heat resulting from friction and prevent corrosion.  So long as one has adequate oil pressure and the oil temperature doesn't go above an acceptable level, I really can't see whether it would make any difference if you had 2.4, 3.6 or 36 litres in the oil reservoir.

 

If the vRS is in the habit of consuming oil at an excessive rate, it must either be leaking out of the bottom and making a mess of your drive (unlikely), being blown out of an oil pressure relief valve (e.g. as a result of overfilling) or getting past the oil control rings.

 

I entirely agree that instrumentation is the appropriate way to monitor this issue and I would still like to know whether it is possible to display readings of the oil temperature and pressure on the vRS?

Edited 24 February, 201412 yr by vxh26

Have a word with the Volkswagen Audi Group, they might let you wtite the Owners manual for the MK3 Fabias.

 

The Mk2 Skodsa Book tells you.

 

"CAUTION, Always check the oil level on vehicles 1.2 ltr/44 kW when the engine is cold,

on other vehicles when the engine is warm. Otherwise the measuring result is incorrect *Und* oil could be incorrectly replenished -risk of engine damage!

The oil level must on no account extend beyond the range 'A' Danger of damaging the catykitic converter."

 

Now if you look at the VW Owners manual.

The instructions  read different with a different translation.

 

The important difference is. That VW say.

"Check at Normal Operating Temperature."  

 

( Normal operation temperature is above 80*oC,  not after as few minutes of starting a Twincharger , after 5 minutes it might be warm and under 50*0C, but certainly not a Normal Operating Temperature.)

 

A larger quantity of a liquid circulating or just the correct quality takes less work to cool.

The oil is circulation and is a coolant as well as a lubricant.

The Radiator is being air cooled and by the fan to cool the engine and also to cool the engine.

Like heating a kettle, the half kettle get hot quicker than a full kettle.

With a cars cooling system which is pressurised, you keep the correct coolant level.

& you keep it away from the Oil.

With the oil, yes you have enough to lubricate, but you get to the point where the same oil in a lesser quantity is being cooled more often, to keep at the correct temperature.

Heat Soak can be one result when you are not getting the heat disipated.

 

That is not the Twincharger problem, often it is the heat from the Intake Manafold on a particular cylinder in the engine. (look at where the Turbo is.)

And also the Fueling, or over fueling.

Bore Wash, Cylinder wear through the Rings, & a few other issues.

My earlier post had an unfortunate error which I have now corrected, I had referred to "the oil doesn't go above an acceptable level", it should have read "the oil temperature doesn't go above an acceptable level".

 

I have extracted the following comments from page 146 of a 205 page .PDF version of the Fabia Owner's manual - I think that you uploaded it some time ago?

 

Checking the oil level

• Ensure that the vehicle is positioned on a level surface and the engine has reached its operating temperature.
• Switch off the engine.
• Open the bonnet.
• Wait a few minutes until the engine oil flows back into the oil sump and remove the dipstick.
• Wipe the dipstick with a clean cloth and insert it again to the stop.
• Then pull out the dipstick again and check the oil level.

You are absolutely right that Skoda refer to the engine having reached its operating temperature.  I am absolutely right that they also say that you should wait a few minutes until the engine oil flows back into the oil sump. have no idea why the oil temperature matters, perhaps because of oil expansion when hot??

 

 

The manual then goes on to say:

"It is normal for the engine to consume oil. The oil consumption may be as much as 0.5L / 1,000 km depending on your style of driving and the conditions under which you operate the vehicle. Consumption may be slightly higher than this during the first 5,000 kilometres. One should therefore check the oil level at regular intervals, preferably every time after the fuel tank is filled or after driving for long stretches."

 

It is interesting (to me) that they refer to possible greater oil consumption for as much as 5,000 kilometres.

 

I am also interested in their observation that oil consumption may be affected by driving style and the conditions under which you operate the engine; presumably the former is a reference to "driving it like you stole it" and the latter to frequent short journeys where the engine doesn't reach its operating temperature?

 

 

None of this alters my belief that oil temperature and pressure readings would be interesting / useful

Go read any Owners Manual on Running in a car from any Manufacturer.

Statement about the first 5000 km, and 0.5l/1000 km are just covering them self.

In the Fabia Owners manual, that is for 3 & 4 Cylinder engines petrol and diesel from 59 bhp to 178 bhp.

The Twincharger 132 kW is not the same as a 44 kW 1.2 engine, and should have an Owners Manual or supplement and should highlight the Prescribed Petrol.

 

Have you yet driven a vRS?

Dipped it cold and dipped it hot?

 

Smiles better, more smiles per mile,

once you have you might worry less about the Engines and the oil.

They are fun.  Not a thing to worry about.

 

Why many just feed it Petrol and oil and enjoy them.

 

PS

Oil does not expand at between 50-150 *oC

You wait to let it flow back down, but not all of it.

If you let it all flow back that would be the same as a cold dip.

Which is why a cold dip makes sense.

 

If you want to study oil, oil weights, effect of temps, and the likes,

then there is loads of information. online, even in Briskoda from Experts and Professionals that specialise in Lubricants.

 

Here in a Twincharger it is just Full Synthetic 5w 30 or 5w 40, 

VW 502, or 504 or better.

Quantum/Castrol recommended by VAG

Nothing special, no real problem, it does the job for everyday driving.

If someone is tuning, going tracking and racing they might still use 5w 30 or 40 

but use a more Motorsport based oil when runnung higher temps regualrly and for extended periods. But then they will probably have different Intercoolers, maybe a bigger capacity 

radiator/coolant system etc.

I take it that the vRS has a wet rather than dry sump?  Surely the oil level should be checked after the engine has cooled down so that the oil in the return galleries, cylinder head valleys, etc. has drained down to the sump?

 

It is my understanding that the function of oil in any engine is to lubricate the moving parts, move dirt and particles to the oil filter, dissipate heat resulting from friction and prevent corrosion.  So long as one has adequate oil pressure and the oil temperature doesn't go above an acceptable level, I really can't see whether it would make any difference if you had 2.4, 3.6 or 36 litres in the oil reservoir.

 

If the vRS is in the habit of consuming oil at an excessive rate, it must either be leaking out of the bottom and making a mess of your drive (unlikely), being blown out of an oil pressure relief valve (e.g. as a result of overfilling) or getting past the oil control rings.

 

I entirely agree that instrumentation is the appropriate way to monitor this issue and I would still like to know whether it is possible to display readings of the oil temperature and pressure on the vRS?

 

I think that you are looking for one of these -> http://www.auto-polar.com/index-load-Polar_Fis_adv.htm

 

Massive upgrade to Maxidot to display a whole tonne of additional parameters.

Hi

 

Thanks for that Sparkly, seems cool but a tad pricey at €249.

 

As a matter of interest, do you have a Polar FIS+ Advanced fitted?  Strangely enough it mentions that it is compatible with the Octavia but not the Fabia vRS??

Also after having had kittens about oil when I first came on here after buying my vRS I also want to give Dave's posts a big , I don't believe he is advocating anything lacksidaisical or dangerous here, I am convinced for all the reading I have done on this that there is at least a percentage of people experiencing high oil consumption due to excessive checking of their dispticks (ooh err missus) and overtopping.

 

This whole section has become utterly overrun with oil threads which I think has somewhat unbalanced the issue.  Yes there are an unacceptably high number of cars with issues, but if you read this subforum you would get the impression that it's the majority rather than the minority which suffer.

 

I applaud the attempt to bring a little light into the debate and encourage people to enjoy their cars more and worry a little less.  Not neglect them, but remember to enjoy them.

 

George - you have a lot of knowledge and importantly a lot of real experience of testing the many theories on the oil issue, on top of that you have give a lot of people on here advice that has helped them out.  So I'm not disagreeing with what you have posted, just saying that now this subject has been done to death, it would be great to see more pics of your little red Fabia on Scotlands great driving routes.

Hi

 

Thanks for that Sparkly, seems cool but a tad pricey at €249.

 

As a matter of interest, do you have a Polar FIS+ Advanced fitted?  Strangely enough it mentions that it is compatible with the Octavia but not the Fabia vRS??

 

Nope, not got want, there are other things that I would probably spend on first, but it does look good. Certainly could get some hard geeking done.

 

Believe it is compatible with all 2010+ Fabias fitted with the Maxidot.

I'm reluctant to add any more to the thousands of words already on this subject so I'll keep it short as usual.

A cold reading when the engine has stood overnight has got to be totally consistent,so why oh why cannot Skoda calibrate the dipstick for this method?

So George,or anyone else who cares to try,why not ASK SKODA/VAG the reason for the hot reading instruction,we really need to under stand why and to define better the "wait a few minutes " thing.Any info needs to come from a top engineer,not via the service departments.

I'm reluctant to add any more to the thousands of words already on this subject so I'll keep it short as usual.

A cold reading when the engine has stood overnight has got to be totally consistent,so why oh why cannot Skoda calibrate the dipstick for this method?

So George,or anyone else who cares to try,why not ASK SKODA/VAG the reason for the hot reading instruction,we really need to under stand why and to define better the "wait a few minutes " thing.Any info needs to come from a top engineer,not via the service departments.

Guess George is P.....off with trying to get Skoda UK and VAG to come to the party .George has worked his butt off for people on here.

So perhaps you can give it a try!

Try the Tech Department  at Skoda UK or contact Mr A. Stewart a DIRECTOR there.