WORD OF WARNING dipping vRS oil level..

[sharkrider]

I KNOW I have said this before, but for the benefit of new arrivals asking questions, I will repeat (others will back me up on this) .. the oil level on the dipstick can vary VASTLY and is NOT to be trusted...

 

my story of my new CTHE:

 

I have done 15,000 miles now, and have worked out it uses about 1 litre every 6,000 miles, this I am happy with, most octy vRSs use more...

 

about 500 miles ago, I topped up with 1/2 litre of standard 5/30 502 oil..

 

I was on nights last night, so decided to have a car check up while we wern't busy...

 

my commute is 19 miles. the car had been left outside for 3 hours, and was driven the 2 car lengths into the garage at work. I then left it another half hour as I checked the company vehical (fiat by the way. no oil use in 160,000 miles! pmsl) 

 

then I checked my car, the oil was off the bottom of the minimum, JUST touching the bottom of the dipstick (level ground) now most people would panic, and put in a litre to a litre and a half of oil... most would say it would read highest when cold. (I beleive this is having detrimental effects on the cars... potentially overfilling and causing the plug fouling we hear of) 

 

NOW, believing my car hadn't suddenly broken and used all its oil in 500 miles , I left it! reassuring myself with  the handbook that the oil level system would show me an orange light if it was too low... (some people use this to determine when to top up, i am begining to AGREE with them, and you will see why later...) the handbook ALSO says that if the oil level check sensor isn't working the orange oil light will come on and FLASH (I dont beleive anyone has had this yet) so happy the ECU was happy, I left it.

 

I came home this morning at approx 8:30am, and have just checked my oil (level surface again, 6 hours later) and lo and behold its 3/4 of the way up the hatched area... how much would I have overfilled with 1-1.5 litres of oil in last night!!!  IMAGINE repeating this process for cars that apparently use a litre every 500 miles, as it would seem my car had done , (NOT, it hasn't used ANY, thats where the level was after my last 1/2 litre top up!) could overfilling be the cause of failed plugs? I took the plugs out of my last car at 40k and they were perfect.

 

NOTE: both dips were cold. ( I know it says check warm, personally I have found it reads more warm, my 3/4 was at the top (max) when warm!)

 

I am begining to think, the people who leave it for the orange light have the best idea, the oil level system is there to check it, (just like the french vehicals that have several bars showing, where the skoda just comes on when too low) 

 

NOTE: RED oil light means low oil PRESSURE not level, this will kill your car, stop immediatly (dont think anyone has had this light yet?) ORANGE oil light means (and i quote) "check oil level!" flashing orange light means oil level sensor faulty...

 

SO my conclusion:

 

Just because you read near minimum on the dip, doesn't meand immediatly panic and stick in a litre... mine was well below minimum on the bottom of the end of the dipstick, to be checked again today at 3/4 full..... I suggest a litre in would have overfilled. I suggest (maybe instead of waiting for the light, but i may become a "light" person )

 

*******checking a few times over a few days, to ascertain an AVERAGE level, before topping up!******

 

NOTE: I still havent put any more oil in.... I'm happy with a 3/4 full reading today, if I get chance to check when warm at work tonight I will do, just for extra data.

Edited 22 February, 2014 by sharkrider

[mr rooney]

Sensible advise

[Furbytom]

Well said, I definitely err towards the yellow light plan. I think I topped up our previous hatch 4 times in 3 years - on three of those occasions it was due to yellow light.

The dipstick is so inaccurate it has a high false positive rate for indicating a problem. Test too often and you run the risk of an incorrect diagnosis of oil use.

That said, we don't really know how accurate/safe the yellow light is but I don't recall any cases of people in here seizing an engine. :-)

[sharkrider]

I agree Tom, a false positive WAS what happened to me last night.... the fewer times you check it, the less you top it up I beleive! lol.. look at Damo, huge problems on his first engine, ignored the oil level on his nreplacement engine, and had no problems! lol..

Edited 22 February, 2014 by sharkrider

[VRSMick]

How much oil is in the engine when the yellow light comes on? It might result in running the engine with too little oil in and when going for a spirited drive prematurely damaging the engine. I always use a hot check and fill it 3mm below the top of the hatch.

[sharkrider]

even the handbook says not to fill it up when its near max! I'd be careful If I was you... the handbook says the yellow light is an electronic check system to warn you to check the level if it thinks its too low... (not that its dangerously low, just to "check the level" ) its what its there for. there has never been ANY proof it doesn't work,(if its broken its flashing amber, signaling a broken sensor)  yet there is massive evidence that the dipstick will not give an accurate Reading..... 

 

and I repeat they say NOT to top up if its just below max... (George , get the diagram out! lol..)

[VRSMick]

Im not on about topping it up when its on max i just make sure the car is a few mm off the top of the hatch. So if you look closely there are little squares which make up the hatched area. I ensure it is 2 to 3 little squares below the top of the hatched area not the flat bit after the hatched area.

[Ootohere]

Good stuff, but one other word of warning.

 

A car that starts with 3.6 litres in can be short by over 1 litres and still no warning light might be on.

The lowest i have had is 1.2 litres to get back to the correct level.

 

1 litre low of 3.6 litres is running with 25% less than capacity.

 

The dip stick is rubbish, but it is not Rocket Science.

 

The Oil can all be in the sump, the dipstick tube is there, the dipstick goes into the sump and the oil coats the dipstick.

 

Now when warm. or normal running temperature, oil can be in the Oil Filter/Housing and around the engine.

But come time it goes back into the sump.

 

Now if Sharkrider or anyone else likes trying to extract the Michael go ahead,

check the oil any way you like.

 

You start off knowing you have 3.6 litres in Cold, know where that is hot,

and you use oil or not.

 

Trust the light and warning if you want to, it hardly is likely to effect anyone but yourself.

 

THE SKODA OWNERS MANUAL SAY 'WARM', the VW OWNERS MANUAL SAME ENGINES SAYS 'NORMAL OPERATING TEMPERATURE', & that is 80*oC plus.

[Ally_bassman]

I am glad George has posted this. I have been thinking this also. I have also posted it a few times on here too (only to be shot down I might add) :-p

Today I checked the oil after a short trip to the shop and back and giving her a wash. Oil had got to 77 deg. The dipstick showed 2 dots from the bottom. Didn't top up. Went to feed the ducks and then to the shops. Got back home and left the car for 5 mins. Oil was 82 deg. Checked the oil and it was on the orange blob. Last topped up 1400 miles ago. Now as a precaution I just put in 500ml to bring the dipstick to the middle of the hatched area.

Sorry for rambling on, my point is the dipstick is random and I really don't believe it too much. I know my car does burn oil and I'm fine with that. How much oil to top is the difficult bit!

[VRSMick]

I always do the check with the engine upto temp as per the owners manual and i ensure the level is per the owners manual i would never let the car run low enough for the light to come on.

[Ally_bassman]

I might add, when I first got my car, I was a little unaware to the oil issues so just drove it normally. It did over 4000 miles before the oil level warning light came on. Since then I have been actively checking the oil level and since doing that my car 'seems' to be burning more if following the dipstick levels.

[Ootohere]

http://briskoda.co.uk/forums/topic/230124-low-oil-warning

 

just one of several threads on the subject since 2010

[Ally_bassman]

I am glad George has posted this. I have been thinking this also. I have also posted it a few times on here too (only to be shot down I might add) :-p

Today I checked the oil after a short trip to the shop and back and giving her a wash. Oil had got to 77 deg. The dipstick showed 2 dots from the bottom. Didn't top up. Went to feed the ducks and then to the shops. Got back home and left the car for 5 mins. Oil was 82 deg. Checked the oil and it was on the orange blob. Last topped up 1400 miles ago. Now as a precaution I just put in 500ml to bring the dipstick to the middle of the hatched area.

Sorry for rambling on, my point is the dipstick is random and I really don't believe it too much. I know my car does burn oil and I'm fine with that. How much oil to top is the difficult bit!

Sorry I should have said I'm glad Sharkrider posted this!

[VRSMick]

Ive just tried to post and there appears to be a problem so i type it in again but it might repeat. Im assuming if you do a hot check 5 min after pulling up with oil at circa 85 deg. If the reading is little bit under the top of the hatched area all is good......a good hot reading. If you then leave the car over night then take a reading in the morning this is your cold reading where ever it is on the dipstick. so you have the option of measuring either hot or cold and without using the light to notify you of low oil.

[Ootohere]

The Skoda Owners manual is full of translation problems.

And the words are often different from the VW Description.

 

But basically the Skoda Manual says,  'Warm' when warm is not giving anything like an Accurate Reading.

THAT DESCRIPTION IS FOR ALL THE ENGINES IN THE FABIAS, EXCEPT THE ONE ENGINE THAT GETS CHECKED COLD.

the 44 kW engine.

 

It say,  'Wait a Few Minutes',,  not 5 minutes, or 10 minutes.

 

But where they advise to check when fueling, someone might wait 5 minutes , that are unlikely to wait 15 minutes.

 

If you trust that the Techician has in 3.6 litres of oil after a PDI or Service, or you service it,

You can easily know what that level looks like the way you check.

 

Last night i Posted a pic of a Dipstick as a Dealership sent a car out.

I have seen some crazy amounts of oil in cars, and some with far too little oil.

 

Just be sure not to overfill.

 

Even without dipping, if you know on a normal trip your oil temp reads 90-92, sometimes 93-94, , Normal operating temperature, you soon notice if you are nipping on a the Temp Rises quicker,

& it does if there is only 2.5 litres of oil in the engine.

 

(And the dipstick used in the vRS engine with 3.6 litre oil capacity, is the same as the stick in the other engines with 

3.9 litres, hardly matters, but actually does i an ickle way.)

[Ally_bassman]

Even without dipping, if you know on a normal trip your oil temp reads 90-92, sometimes 93-94, , Normal operating temperature, you soon notice if you are nipping on a the Temp Rises quicker

I find this a more accurate way, although many things can alter the oil temp when operating normally like the ambient temp outside or even a headwind I find can cause the temps to be higher.

I don't know anymore haha

I'm just going to drive it and when the light pops on stick a litre in.

[Ootohere]

If your temperature goes up or down much, more than 4 degrees up and down, 90-94,

in the current sort of weather of 6-16 degree ambient, driving once hot and about 60-80 mph,

then maybe you run with low oil.

 

If you have an Oil Warning light on and only put in 1 litre, i expect you will still have low oil.

 

 

?? So from this thread, a question for people then need to top up.

 

How do you check it to know you have it running near 3.6 litres of oil and not above?

[VRSMick]

Ha ha ha yea lets enjoy the cars i cant believe checking the oil on these cars is such a b*ll ache whatever happened to checking your engine when cold. My wifes corsa is the same......at hot check but this actually details to be checked after 5 min i think....... pls bring back common sense.......

[Ally_bassman]

Agreed! Let's just enjoy them!

I certainly do :-D

I don't worry about my consumption. I just want to make sure I'm not doing more harm than good keeping an eye on it.

[sharkrider]

I'm not extracting the micheal george, my OP was FACT.... warm or cold is irrelevant , I wasn't trying to say what is correct, I was demonstrating as the POINT of the post that the dipstick is totally inaccurate, as BOTH my dips were done under the SAME conditions, and therefore , there shouldn't have been any variation due to temperature! yet there was a HUGE variation.....

 

I also dont ness subscribe to the fact that all the oil will run into the sump if left... I know for a fact that modern engines have valves to keep oil up there, for example a valve to keep the oil filter full, so as not to have to fill it loosing pressure on startup... this is why the techs (should) start and run the cars several times while checking the level after a service (our techs do this at lillyhall... ) 

 

there doesn't seem to be an explanation as to why it read empty, then 3/4 full , when both tests were done COLD....

 

and why are we not trusting a system (the oil light) that is designed by clever engineers to read oil level? why do we assume it doesn't work?!  there is no logic or science behind that.. its there to do a job, it should do it, why have some people invented the fact that this piece of tech is totally unreliable? are we next going to assume the boost control wont work and the engine will blow? its a piece of tech designed to do a job, I'm sure it isn't randomly MUCH more unreliable than any other piece of tech :p

 

my conclusion was *** check several times,over several days, don't panic, and take an average reading *****

 

edit: again this is not a thread OR a post saying you should check the oil when cold! check it when warm as per the handbook

Edited 22 February, 2014 by sharkrider

[Ootohere]

It is totally inaccurate.

 

But Stone Cold oil in a stone cold engine is the same reading.  sadly it is not on the dipstick scale, it is above it.

But it is reliable.

Once you know the correct amount of oil is in, then surely the first Stone Cold Dips on the level are the level.

 

Up to 80*oc or above, stopped and wait 5 minutes should be pretty constant.

 

Starting, driving a bit, checking, checking a while later will always be all over the place.

 

The Owners manual from 2010 is covering all the cars, & the Oil Check is covering all engines.

Only one 1.2 44kw engine to be checked cold.

 

Owners Manual, Published 2010, the vRS Twincharger came out 2010.

 

The Seat Ibiza Twincharger came out in 2009, same engine, same Dipstick and some were burning oil.

or being overfilled and underfilled before the vRS was launched.

 

4 years later and people like us are still talking about it.

If you engine uses nearly no Oil, then there is no need to be topping up.

[sharkrider]

meh we like talking about it maybe I was too bored at work last night! lol.... (I will check it again tonight! (*nnnooo must resist....)

[VRSMick]

Dont do it........................lol

[seboni121]

I think dave has it right, just wait for the light to flash and top up if your not clued up like George , otherwise overfilling is going to happen why make something so difficult to read , its a bloody dip stick and the answer is to check when cold ( with the right volume in the engine ) then should be the same always when cold, if you check when warm ( a few minutes!) how bloody vague is that FFS

[A Woodster]

I think I am going to be the diplomat and agree with both George and sharkrider. There are on occasion some random readings, but if you dip regularly and get a good understanding of hot AND cold levels when a known 3.6lt has been put in the car then the rest for me is all down to common sense.

Over time you will see how your engine does or doesn't consume oil, I would put more faith in spotting a trend on an inaccurate measurement than waiting for a low oil light (which is not an oil level sensor).

Still a cracking car though!