240bhp+ setups

[ezzy1]

Basically iv bought a turbo dynamics gtb2260vk locally which was quite cheap , picked up a intercooler and downpipe to suit also. Was just wondering what other mods people use to get the best out of these and to keep it all reliable if that's possible

I realise my main task is to find a clutch ? Spoke to a lad who's had a gc motorsports clutch in for over a year and he bought it second hand and it's still going despite all the bad reviews iv seen on them .

As for other mods I'm wanting to keep standard injectors , just the likes of filters and intake pipes etc I'm wondering about.

I did try search this before posting but none specifically answered what I was after.

Ideally I want people that already have the setup to reply and post pictures , not people that run standard maps saying it will kill the car ????

Thanks !

[Th3Grinch]

What car is it?

[devonutopia]

I ran this turbo with lots of other mods circa 275/280bhp for a fair while.  They do go further.  I'm now running the hybrid version.

 

I suspect this is on a fabia vRS going on "Fabdog" in the car bit.

[joelk2010]

Not impossible but will require a good mapper to get 240+ on standard injectors.

 

These turbos are rather large and take quite abit of fuel to get them working "properly". I would go down a turbo size, which will still see your goal, and give you better spool up and less lag. Well, unless you are planning to fit injectors in the future.

[ezzy1]

Would I be best off with something like a stage 2 hybrid then with the mods iv got so far ?

[alex_e3]

Just to add a view of someone with a stage 2 setup at around 220bhp....

 

In retrospect I now wish that I bought a 2260 instead of the hybrid I bought when my original turbo blew.

 

I stupidly thought that 220bhp would be more than enough! I was very wrong!!

 

So if you're the sort that is likely to crave more, then I'd suggest getting the 2260 mapped on standard injectors for the time being, then once funds allow upgrade them and get your map tweaked accordingly. Ask Joel about this, as this is the route that he went down. I can assure you that his car was quicker at 230bhp than a stage 2 hybrid is!

[ezzy1]

Iv just bought a stage 2 hybrid off a lad just today was only 450 , was fitted to a pd160 previously , he thought he ran 250bhp on it , will I only see 220bhp tops ?

[alex_e3]

What exactly is the spec of this 'stage 2' hybrid? Is it a Garrett PD150 hybrid or another type such as the MD376?

 

There have been huge debates about the subject on here, but it's typically suggested that standard injectors are only good for 230bhp maximum. Any more than that and you're potentially running very large injection cycles to provide the fuelling. It HAS been done granted, but has cost some people very expensive engine rebuilds. I personally wouldn't risk it. Most PD150 hybrid stage 2 cars are circa 220/230bhp on here - mine included.

 

To be honest if this person has apparently been running 250bhp, then he's either full of it, or has been pushing that turbo very hard....  If you didn't see a RR printout, then I'd assume it's bull to be honest!

[faboka vrs]

Stages and hybrids mean nothing really, you want actual specs.

My understanding. (Please correct if wrong) stage 1 from turbo dynamics is a 52mm compressor wheel. Stage 2 is 56mm compressor wheel. Then you need to know if it's based on a gt1749va (pd130) or gt1749vb (pd150). Vb has a bigger turbine.

I mapped a gtb1756vk recently to 240bhp/350 lbsft. But yes that is with a large duration but EGT is still reasonably.

Edited 6 March, 2014 by faboka vrs

[ezzy1]

I'm in the understanding that it's based on a pd150 , he did say that on the injectors he had they were maxed out and it was very smokey

[muckingfuppet]

Does nobody bother looking at turbocharger flow maps and actually calculate injector sizes/fuel pressures to suit? :S Half an hour with a pencil and paper will save you a huge headache and will tell you what you need to get to where you are going...

[devonutopia]

Does nobody bother looking at turbocharger flow maps and actually calculate injector sizes/fuel pressures to suit? :S Half an hour with a pencil and paper will save you a huge headache and will tell you what you need to get to where you are going...

 

I doubt 99% of members on here, myself included, could do that

[faboka vrs]

Does nobody bother looking at turbocharger flow maps and actually calculate injector sizes/fuel pressures to suit? :S Half an hour with a pencil and paper will save you a huge headache and will tell you what you need to get to where you are going...

Ever tried getting a compressor map for a VAG vnt turbo? Next to impossible sadly. The ones that have them can't pass them on :(

[faboka vrs]

I doubt 99% of members on here, myself included, could do that

Garret how some good tech 101 articles that explains it. But like above pointless if you can't get the actual compressor maps :(

[devonutopia]

Garret how some good tech 101 articles that explains it. But like above pointless if you can't get the actual compressor maps :(

 

I expect you to be in the 1% bracket! :P

[faboka vrs]

I've had gtb1756vk dyno'd at awesome yesterday, made 230bhp. Also had another gtb1756vk dyno'd at cctuning and made 240bhp but that smoked a little due to high fuel durations. Should have results from a third later this week which should be interesting as it seems to breath much better than the other two.

[muckingfuppet]

I doubt 99% of members on here, myself included, could do that

 

It's a lot easier than it sounds. The standard power is known, the standard boost pressure is known, as is the engine size. Work out what the cfm is for that power on this engine, gives you a baseline to work out your required cfm for a given power level. This means you can work out a pressure ratio and corrected air flow, which is what you need in order to check out compressor flow maps. Injector size is the easy part. Assumng a stock fuel pressure of 36psi (most manufacture cars) then:

 

(Desired bhp x bsfc x 10.5)  = minimum required injector in cc for that power level.

          no. cylinders

 

 

Ever tried getting a compressor map for a VAG vnt turbo? Next to impossible sadly. The ones that have them can't pass them on :(

 

vnt just refers to the fact that it's a variable vane compressor, check the housing on the turbo it should give you a model number for the turbo. Google a flow map and compare it to your pressure ratio and air flow to find out if its right!

[faboka vrs]

It's a lot easier than it sounds. The standard power is known, the standard boost pressure is known, as is the engine size. Work out what the cfm is for that power on this engine, gives you a baseline to work out your required cfm for a given power level. This means you can work out a pressure ratio and corrected air flow, which is what you need in order to check out compressor flow maps. Injector size is the easy part. Assumng a stock fuel pressure of 36psi (most manufacture cars) then:

(Desired bhp x bsfc x 10.5) = minimum required injector in cc for that power level.

no. cylinders

vnt just refers to the fact that it's a variable vane compressor, check the housing on the turbo it should give you a model number for the turbo. Google a flow map and compare it to your pressure ratio and air flow to find out if its right!

Like I said the compressor maps are a secret. You try and find a compressor map for a 1749va/vb/vc, 1756 etc

[john_y]

Like I said the compressor maps are a secret. You try and find a compressor map for a 1749va/vb/vc, 1756 etc

I think I might have some maps - reason being that I started to help Alan Allard with research for 2nd edition of his book.

[muckingfuppet]

Like I said the compressor maps are a secret. You try and find a compressor map for a 1749va/vb/vc, 1756 etc

 

http://www.turbomaster.info/img/aplicaciones/GT1749V-778445-0001-compmap.jpg

Give me a bit more than a half hour break at work to find the 1756... :P

[faboka vrs]

Lmao. So which turbo is this? And don't say gt1749v as theirs hundreds of different ones, each different from manufacture to manufacture. Eg vag gt1749v is different to an fiat gt1749v. By different I mean compressor and turbine sizes. Bmw have difference 2260 models. Some are from the gtb family some arnt. Again all different sizes.

[john_y]

gt2260v compressor map attached.

[john_y]

2nd time lucky