BMW Touring 330d xDrive

[pipsyp]

I had a BMW 320d auto loan car from D1ck Lovett (stupid nanny system here won't let me spell the name correctly)! the other week for a few days and was very impressed with it. The economy was remarkable, suspension much better than the Octavia, achieved 58 mpg, and one thing that was hugely better was the seamless integration of a conventional automatic transmission to the Diesel engine, a trick that VW have yet to master with their insistence in mating a DSG box to diesel. They simply don't work well together.

Although theBMW was probably not worth all of the £8k more than than my Octavia, the interior is certainly of no better quality, but the drive train is much better - to a certain extent you do get what you pay for.

The BM is too expensive and not as accomodating but have to say sadly it probably betters the octavia 3 in most respects otherwise.

The 8 speed ZF is about the best on the market and really makes the automated manual DSG system seem rather poor by comparison

[Paul007]

The 8 speed ZF is about the best on the market and really makes the automated manual DSG system seem rather poor by comparison 

 

I'll report back when I've had it for a day or two. As for the MkIII being better, the interior plastics are much less tactile which isn't a good start.

[Stone]

Well I test drove the Octavia Estate 150 TDi SE 4x4 and BMW X3 3.0d MSport Step Auto today with my glamorous assistant (wife...) also testing the front and rear passenger options. Obviously these cars are apples and pears to some extent (No 2.0D manual X3's available to test) but here goes;

 

Octavia

Cabin felt good to sit in but a curious mix of semi tactile and hard plastics (unlike the Citigo which is hard all the way). Was able to test drive for a good 30-40 minutes and I have to say the drivers seat felt too soft with very poor lumbar support (this is available as an option though). The car handled well and the 6 speed manual felt very good with slick shifting and it is properly ratioed to the engine unlike my Santa Fe which requires you to be in 3rd to reach 30 mph (cheat to avoid a low ratio box). The Octavia felt good under acceleration and cornering but around the 70 mph speed limit there was some wind and road noise from the wing mirrors and the rear of the car respectively. The second row of seats were good for 2 adults but a third rear passenger would have a large transmission tunnel to deal with. For some unknown reason there were no air vents in the rear other than ones hidden under the front seats. Given my kids always complain of feeling hot on journeys that is a big deal although Elegance trim does have them. Boot is cavernous and with the variable floor, virtually flat as well. All in all a very well put together car that seems like a lot for the money.

 

 

X3

Very comfortable drivers seat, good position and despite my lack of familiarity, a good set of controls (auto box, flappy paddles, iDrive). Boot is big enough and flat but not quite Octavia sized. Second row has slightly less knee room than Octavia but not by much and it does have slightly more seat width, seat comfort (front and rear) and rear air vents when compared to the Octavia. This meant overall comfort for driver and passengers was better compared to the Octavia but possibly only very noticeable on longer journeys. Car accelerated well and the 8 speed auto box modes (Econ, Comfort, Sport) shifted seamlessly (once warmed up) and allowed the rev range to be properly explored and controlled particularly when the flappy paddles were also deployed. Car accelerated nicely (too nicely at times...) handled very well with well weighted steering and nice flat cornering. Although it didn't handle vastly differently to the Octavia on the same test route it is a taller SUV shape so the suspension setup is impressive. Some slight noise apparent from the mirrors around 70 mph but less noise than the Octavia from front and rear.

 

 

 

Verdict

It's very hard to judge the true value of the two tested given the X3's merits vs. it's extra price (~£13-15K) over the Octavia. Both had stop-start systems which I had never experienced before and thought would be a nightmare but was pleasantly surprised to find both actually worked. Maybe a different story on a very cold day.... Right now I would guess that this version of the X3 would do everything with more style and leave you and your passengers feeling more refreshed after a 3-4 hour plus journey. However, in terms of straightforward practicality there's really nothing in it and the elephant in the room is whether the higher price you pay for an auto box, 3.0 litre engine, better seats and some more gizmos in the X3 are worth it. Still got stuff to test e.g. Touareg, Superb 4x4 and maybe others but I should probably also test the X3 2.0D SE manual vs. the Octavia to provide a fairer match up on functionality vs. price.

[Timoctav]

@ Stone - interesting write up, many thanks. I wouldn't buy a manual BMW. The autos are top notch and the manuals are well - notchy and not all that good IMO.

[pipsyp]

SE spec doesnt come with the armrest by the way its an option; the rear vents come with the armrest.

[Stone]

SE spec doesnt come with the armrest by the way its an option; the rear vents come with the armrest.

 

Ah, thanks for that.

[FamousAfroJay]

I work for BMW and I find this topic very interesting as a vRS owner. It's horses for courses. Comparing these cars is very hard as the BMW's really do have the driving dynamics, interior ergonomics and technology on their side. 8 Speed ZF vs 6 speed DSG for example and the BMW Professional nav and Connected Drive services leave the almighty Skoda without an answer.

 

The Skoda hits back with superb interior space and value for money although im sad that there isn't a more powerful version to take on the BM's and Audis. Just imagine an Octavia or Superb with the Audi S4 running gear. Performance bargain of the year potentially.

 

Each to their own.

[Stone]

@ Stone - interesting write up, many thanks. I wouldn't buy a manual BMW. The autos are top notch and the manuals are well - notchy and not all that good IMO.

You mean a modern BMW manual? All the ones I've owned (1991, 1997 and 2004) have been good but not brilliant. The M3 shifts like a sword in a stone until it's warmed up (it is nearly 10 years old though) but once warm it's great. I test drove the M3 SMG before going manual and was OK with it but I'd heard too many bad things about poor low speed control and reliability to go for it. Note that the legendary E46 M3 CSL only came with an SMG box so I guess it wasn't completely awful.

 

Have to say the Octavia 4x4 6 speed manual shift action was at least as good as these BMW's if not better and the 5 speed gear box in my old 2003 Fabia was a gem as well. On the flip side I've found the Citigo occasionally very notchy particularly when shifting from 2nd to 1st which was disappointing. However, it's still running in so early days.

[Timoctav]

You mean a modern BMW manual? All the ones I've owned (1991, 1997 and 2004) have been good but not brilliant. The M3 shifts like a sword in a stone until it's warmed up (it is nearly 10 years old though) but once warm it's great. I test drove the M3 SMG before going manual and was OK with it but I'd heard too many bad things about poor low speed control and reliability to go for it. Note that the legendary E46 M3 CSL only came with an SMG box so I guess it wasn't completely awful.

 

Have to say the Octavia 4x4 6 speed manual shift action was at least as good as these BMW's if not better and the 5 speed gear box in my old 2003 Fabia was a gem as well. On the flip side I've found the Citigo occasionally very notchy particularly when shifting from 2nd to 1st which was disappointing. However, it's still running in so early days.

I mean a modern BMW manual - if only becuase the BMW autos are so brilliant and light years ahead of anyone else, particularly with diesels. Their manuals are so-so and you don't get the experience of BMW at their best.

 

The M3 SMG box of old was an early pre -DSG transmission and an automated manual transmission that tries to get away from the power losses and comparative sluggishness of a torque converter auto of the period. It wasn't good by today's sports car double clutch transmission standards which are simply amazing now, both faster, smoother and more economical than either a conventional auto or manual transmission. Such is progress!

Edited 1 April, 2014 by Timoctav

[Timoctav]

I work for BMW and I find this topic very interesting as a vRS owner. It's horses for courses. Comparing these cars is very hard as the BMW's really do have the driving dynamics, interior ergonomics and technology on their side. 8 Speed ZF vs 6 speed DSG for example and the BMW Professional nav and Connected Drive services leave the almighty Skoda without an answer.

 

 

One major issue I have with returning to the BMW fold would be finding a decent dealer that treats customers with respect rather than a) thinking they are honouring them when they visit a showroom   actually bothering to talk to prospective customers when they do visit aforementioned showroom and c) realising that after sales service is important. I've heard that Vines is possibly the only nearly local dealer to me in Southampton that are pleasant to deal with and maybe Snows. Scotthall Hampshire (Jardines) were disgraceful. They had an excellent general manager though who quickly resolved my problems when they reached his ears. He left shortly afterwards and went to Snows BMW. I have no experience of Partridge BMW (Scotthall's replacement) so cannot comment on them.

 

Porsche dealers are the same; Good ones such as D1ck Lovett in Swindon and Mid Sussex in Burgess Hill are faultless and bad ones such as Bournemouth (Inchcape). In my experience avoid any dealerships owned by large groups such as Inchcape as if they were infected with bubonic plague.

Edited 1 April, 2014 by Timoctav

[Chunkstar]

One thing only in my mind

If you can afford the 330xd I would because it's great if affordability is needed then why even ask ! As the bmw will cost lots more and I mean lots more

[Timoctav]

One thing only in my mind

If you can afford the 330xd I would because it's great if affordability is needed then why even ask ! As the bmw will cost lots more and I mean lots more

 

The 320d X Drive is more of a comparison with anything in the Skoda range but yes, much more expensive and I couldn't personally justify the cost as a high mileage daily driver. Even a BMW 123d was cripplingly expensive for my mileage and I would never buy one again for my long commute.

 

BMW's are much better to drive though and more of a drivers car certainly than my own Octavia with its comparatively basic torsion beam suspension. I've only driven an Audi A3 with multi link and even that is nowehere near as good a set up as a BMW and BMW's auto transmission is light years better.

 

The Audi range is obviously more comparable than Skoda to BMW and much closer in pricing. On room for your bucks alone clearly Skoda is much better value.

[nickcoll]

The Audi range is obviously more comparable than Skoda to BMW and much closer in pricing. On room for your bucks alone clearly Skoda is much better value.

It depends if you are talking about image or putting image on one side. If you put image totally on one side, I would contend that there isn't really that much difference between any of them. And certainly not enough to justify the dramatic price difference. But if image is important to you then I suppose the difference in cost is justifiable. It isn't for me.

[Yeti_Man]

It depends if you are talking about image or putting image on one side. If you put image totally on one side, I would contend that there isn't really that much difference between any of them. And certainly not enough to justify the dramatic price difference. But if image is important to you then I suppose the difference in cost is justifiable. It isn't for me.

It isnt just image that differentiates them though. The 'equivalent' Audi will have nicer upholstery, more effective sound proofing and carpets, better quality cabin materials and from what ive seen lately, a better paint.trim finish. Panel gap is now on par though imo. Some of the nicer options are also only available on the higher tier brands in the VAG group.

[FamousAfroJay]

One major issue I have with returning to the BMW fold would be finding a decent dealer that treats customers with respect rather than a) thinking they are honouring them when they visit a showroom   actually bothering to talk to prospective customers when they do visit aforementioned showroom and c) realising that after sales service is important. I've heard that Vines is possibly the only nearly local dealer to me in Southampton that are pleasant to deal with and maybe Snows. Scotthall Hampshire (Jardines) were disgraceful. They had an excellent general manager though who quickly resolved my problems when they reached his ears. He left shortly afterwards and went to Snows BMW. I have no experience of Partridge BMW (Scotthall's replacement) so cannot comment on them.

 

Porsche dealers are the same; Good ones such as D1ck Lovett in Swindon and Mid Sussex in Burgess Hill are faultless and bad ones such as Bournemouth (Inchcape). In my experience avoid any dealerships owned by large groups such as Inchcape as if they were infected with bubonic plague.

Tim, I work for Partridge and from what i have heard it has moved on leaps and bounds since the Scotthall days in tearms of customer service (especially from the service dept). Drop me a PM with your contact details if you like and give us a chance to impress you. Weather you are looking to buy or not lets get one of the cars out on the road and compare notes

JH 

[Timoctav]

Tim, I work for Partridge and from what i have heard it has moved on leaps and bounds since the Scotthall days in tearms of customer service (especially from the service dept). Drop me a PM with your contact details if you like and give us a chance to impress you. Weather you are looking to buy or not lets get one of the cars out on the road and compare notes

JH 

PM sent

[Neily03]

The M3 SMG box of old was an early pre -DSG transmission and an automated manual transmission that tries to get away from the power losses and comparative sluggishness of a torque converter auto of the period. It wasn't good by today's sports car double clutch transmission standards which are simply amazing now, both faster, smoother and more economical than either a conventional auto or manual transmission. Such is progress!

 

Apart from a VAG DSG attached to a diesel engine

[Timoctav]

It depends if you are talking about image or putting image on one side. If you put image totally on one side, I would contend that there isn't really that much difference between any of them. And certainly not enough to justify the dramatic price difference. But if image is important to you then I suppose the difference in cost is justifiable. It isn't for me.

Image not a priority for me - probably wouldn't have bought an Octavia if it was! Interior quality of the A3 is far higher than the Octavia I'm afraid, like or not, higher price for a smaller car with identical mechanicals, except the equivalent A3 does come with multi link suspension. If price had been closer may have gone for the A3 as I don't need all the room that the Octvia has to offer.

 

Unfortunately the only image that Audi seems to come with is that of arrogant, impatient and poor drivers, not that you can blame the cars for that.

[jlwah]

Unfortunately the only image that Audi seems to come with is that of arrogant, impatient and poor drivers, not that you can blame the cars for that.

I take offence at that, we (well SWMBO) Audi drivers can't complete with BMW drivers on the arrogant, impatient and poor driver front, and believe me we do try   

[Lady Elanore]

I've owned both a BMW and then followed it up with an Audi. I found I didn't have to adjust my level of arrogance, impatience, aggression or driving standards? :wonder:  I now have a little Merc and I don't have a pipe or slippers either :(

 

Btw, the reason I bought my Audi A4 was that I couldn't buy a Skoda with a 3.0 diesel and full time 4 wheel drive.

[Jeeves]

Unfortunately the only image that Audi seems to come with is that of arrogant, impatient and poor drivers, not that you can blame the cars for that.

Yes.  This worries me as I've been driving quattros for 19 years now and don't plan to give up.  All my choices except for one have been for very "non-corporate" models, but it still makes me feel slightly uncomfortable buying one; whereas with Skoda there's a positive "two fingers up to the rest of you snobs" feeling that I really enjoy.

 

What makes me depressed is the fickleness and two-facedness of folk.  We especially see it in the school car park where the very same people who smile and say "hello" when you drive an Audi will consciously avoid eye contact when you're in a Skoda. "RS-holes" is what I think.

 

These are the very same people who scoff at a Skoda bought outright when they are doubtless buying their status with interest on top.  I do love it when we make them choke when we occasionally pick a different car, as their simple minds just can't compute!

[pipsyp]

Its fair to say that with an Octavia you get most if not all the latest VAG group tech in a nicely designed and generally well built and executed package. Its also by comparison still an excellent value for money proposition....mainly down to good marketing/finance schemes than low list prices.

All the same as much as Id like a 320d Sport/M Sport with some options id never be able to PCP one over 42 months, £500 down and less than £300/month...in fact not sure of any other comparable car that i could do so.

[Paul007]

Apart from a VAG DSG attached to a diesel engine

 

I don't have a problem with either in my vRS.

[nickcoll]

What makes me depressed is the fickleness and two-facedness of folk.  We especially see it in the school car park where the very same people who smile and say "hello" when you drive an Audi will consciously avoid eye contact when you're in a Skoda.

 

But isn't that one of the advantages. It helps to separate the snobs from the people you will like.

 

Around here the real differentiator is between the Range Rover drivers, who think they are really something, and everyone else who hates them (it's a constant topic of conversation). Audi/BMW drivers are definitely not in the same category.

[Stone]

This place is rammed with Aston Martins, Range Rovers, Porches, RS4s, M3s (new and old ones), Maseratis, Bentleys the lot. The badge snobbery is probably in this order:

 

Bentley

Aston Martin

Maserati

Range Rover

Jaguar

BMW/Audi

and so on.

 

You should see people's faces when I turn up in a Citigo one day (S model at that) and an M3 the next :-)