Do you just take it off and move it along a spline or two?

Do you need to recalibrate a sensor?

 

My dealer reckons you move it along a spline.

The Wheel Alignment center I went to said that you need to recalibrate the Steering Angle Sensor.

 

My steering wheel is a few degrees off center to the right.

I don't think this is helping the left hand pull my car has so want it centering.

 

I think the dealer has already attempted to center the wheel but I have not noticed any difference.

I am guessing that they took the wheel off and put it back on in a different position I don't know for sure.

From what Gonephishing has said in the past...

You can centre it by moving it along a spline, but you may be cheating, as the problem may be the wheel alignment. So you could be covering up the real problem.

From what Gonephishing has said in the past...

You can centre it by moving it along a spline, but you may be cheating, as the problem may be the wheel alignment. So you could be covering up the real problem.

^ +1 to this.

SK4GW/Gonefishing said at the time, 'do not do as i do.'

 

I said if you quote the whole thread or post, 'i have after checking the alignment and the steering is correct.

An Ex Machanic was quick to post to say how unsafe it can be.

 

I did not say or advise,

know the steering is out of place from kerbing or hitting a pothole ,

have some Tyre & Exhaust place play about,

and if its all wrong, just move the steering wheel.

I agree there is no point in just moving the wheel without exploring other possibilities.

I have had 6 or 7 four wheel alignments done. None of which have made any difference so I beleive I have explored that route fully.

The last wheel alignment I had done was the best so far but the steering wheel is still not central.
 

Where I had the alignment done had said that I should look at resetting the Steering Angle Sensor as the Alignment has not fixed the issue.

They couldn't do that with mine as their Hunter machine is not setup for my Fabia. http://www.pro-align.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/01-5549T-CodeLink-06-11.pdf

They say you need Skoda specific kit to do it.

After phoning my dealer they agreed they would attempt to centralise the steering wheel but they were saying it might not be possible as they can only move the wheel a spline at a time and it may not get dead central.

This confused me as I was expecting them to hook up the computer and reset the sensor.

I have seen that you can calibrate the Steering Angle Sensor using VCDS but I have not found instructions on how to do this on Fabias.

So who is right and who is wrong.

Do not just remove the steering wheel and put it back on. The steering is electric and the steering angle sensor will think you are always turning. If the steering is out then something is bent or worn out, moving the steering wheel will just mask the problem.

 

Ideally the car needs to have a full 4WA to work out which wheels are pointing the wrong way.

 

Edit to add, the Monte Carlo has standard Fabia suspension so picking any of the non vRS variants should result in the correct settings. I have not yet seen a car that has failed to have the steering error corrected on alignment, if its out still after a full 4WA the operator of the machine maybe inexperienced in its use.

Yeah. It got confusing that thread, and i havent got the time to find it to quote haha.

Im not sure about sensors etc. but if its always been out of line, from the factory, and all the alignments have been checked,,. Maybe it is just a spline out?

Oh thats why! Haha.

'StuFan' hot a pothole in Glasgow in January,

and a Tyre Exhaust centres messed up his steering and had the steering wheel squint.

i sent you a PM.

Mine has gone to the same dealers and if they have moved my wheel to stop the pull to the left i am going to seek legal advice as they are trying to mask the problem.

Skoda need to pull there finger out and fix the problem not mask it

I dont think they do it to cute the pulling to the left? Do they?

I thought they masked that one with different tyres haha

I dont think they do it to cute the pulling to the left? Do they?

I thought they masked that one with different tyres haha

 

No they think if we move the wheel to the right it will centre it when driving so we will not notice

Thats terrible.

Iv never driven a car that pulls to the left, but i suppose if it does pull 100% of the time, under all conditions, they could mask it that way?

If it just pulled sometimes though, itd leave you with a right dog handling vague car.

Masking it like that is rough to say the least, in my mind

Moving the wheel along the splines on the column to get it centered is plain ridiculous. But it doesn't surprise me one bit that a dealer has suggested it, only an imbecile could come up with this solution.

The spacing of the splines will probably never match the exact angle of correction needed, but worse still, you will end up with a steering system that will have more lock in one direction than the other.

You must insist that they don't do that marky.

Edited 27 March, 201412 yr by FAB59

Guys - there is a load of cobblers put forward in this thread. Lets try to detail some sense into this subject, and not write guessology and misleading information into this matter.

 

When a car is assembled, the steering gear (rack and pinion in this case) is centralised - in other words it is assembled and initially set up so that the 'at rest position' of the assembly is half of its total travel capability. At that central position, the pinion will be set at the correct position so that its master keyway (or spline) will be at a pre determined position.

The inner steering shaft will then be fitted, and because of the nature of the keyway/spline - this will automatically set up the correct position for things like trafficator cancellation at the drivers end of the steering column etc.

 

This central rack position is held, and then the track rods are adjusted to give the correct toe in / toe out position in a perfectly symmetrical position. This then provides true steering geometry set up. ANY future alterations MUST be made by adjusting both track rods equally - 

If this is not done (I.E. some **** adjusts one side only) then the steering geometry is immediately rendered incorrect - with the result that the throw of steering to each side is both now unequal, and the turning angles are no longer accurate.

Therefore in order to steer the car in a straight ahead position - you have to turn the wheel to compensate so that the road wheels run in the central position related to themselves. You will quickly see that the steering wheel itself will no longer be in a horizontal / acceptable position because of this unequal adjustment.

 

On the basis that Skoda have originally correctly set up the rack and geometry parameters - IF YOU HAVE a steering wheel that is 'off centre', your very first requirement is to get the vehicle to a true steering specialist for a 4 wheel laser set up. You will find that it is most likely that this will be sufficient to overcome your steering wheel position problem. Their are many self proclaimed specialists out there, the problem is actually finding one that lives up to this claim. Regarding some of the comments made earlier in this thread.

Marky reports

"My dealer reckons you move it along a spline". ONLY WHEN ALL THE OTHER PARAMETERS ARE MET.

 

"The Wheel Alignment centre I went to said that you need to recalibrate the Steering Angle Sensor". YES THIS IS CORRECT, THE STEERING ANGLE SENSOR CAN BE ADJUSTED/CALIBRATED WHEN THE RACK IS IN ITS CENTRAL POSITION.

 

"My steering wheel is a few degrees off centre to the right.

I don't think this is helping the left hand pull my car has so want it centring". THE ACTUAL POSITION OF THE STEERING WHEEL WILL HAVE NO INFLUENCE ON THE STEERING PULL.

 

Another comment made was - "No, they think if we move the wheel to the right it will centre it when driving so we will not notice" I assume this was a comment made in jest?? -  SURELY even the worst technician (and I use the term loosely) would not be so brain dead to think this one up. 

Most garage staff are not trained to the extent that apprentices were in my day - I despair when I read some of the comments reported by various posters that were made by their garage or dealer. It is evident if these reports are to be believed, that Skoda dealers have a BIG problem with quality of staff.

Marky, you are being slightly mislead by your garage - they display a certain amount of ignorance on this issue.

First off get to a steering specialist, for a full 4 wheel (Must be 4 wheel) geometry check. -  A TRUE specialist, not the high street tyre national type of set up.  

Good luck.

Edited 28 March, 201412 yr by 2ndskoda

2ndSkoda: Thanks for your reply it has been most helpful and has confirmed what I have been thinking.

 

I am happy that the last alignment I had done was by a "specialist". Wheel alignments are his core business, doesnt do much else. He was fanatical about it and looking at the results of his alignment both on the print out and how the car behaves (I can feel a difference) I believe he knows what he is doing.

As the alignment did not stop the left hand pull/drift or the fact that the steering wheel is slightly (1-2 degrees) off center they said that the steering angle sensor would need to be recalibrated but he did not have the equipment to do it on a Skoda.

 

I then asked my dealer if they would recalibrate the steering angle sensor as the steering wheel is not centered. They didn;t give tthe impression they would do this buit instead wanted to pursue the route of taking the wheel off and moving it a spline.

 

With regards to the steering wheel not fixing the pull. I have a theory. If I drive along the motorway at 70mph in a straight line. My wheel is 1-2degrees off center to the right in order to keep straight. If I loosen the grip on the wheel the steering wheel centers itself then the car drifts left.

If we centralise the wheel I am hoping that when I test the car again and let go of the wheel (which I would now be holding centrally) the wheel will not turn by itself and the car will hold a straight line.

NOTE: I am only testing as above when it is safe to do so (no other traffic about) and also when the road is smooth and flat (no camber).

 

Every car I have been lent by the dealer, whilst mine has been in the garage, I have tried the above test with. None of them have behaved like my car. They have all behaved as I would expect.

 

EDIT: I have attached the before and after alignments for you to see how much better they are. The important bit is the caster.

Edited 28 March, 201412 yr by marky

Hi Marky

you wrote - " If I loosen the grip on the wheel, the steering wheel centres itself then the car drifts left." If you think about this carefully - the steering wheel does NOT centre itself, it is the steering set-up of the car that is responsible for the steering wheel taking up a  new position. If you then alter the s/wheel position - this would only cosmetically give you the wheel position that you seek HOWEVER you would still have to turn the wheel clockwise to 'overcome' this pull to the left.

I have to go out now, but will take this matter up again when I return.

regards

2nd skoda

Marky, just a further quick clarification - you wrote -

 

"With regards to the steering wheel not fixing the pull. I have a theory. If I drive along the motorway at 70 mph in a straight line. My wheel is 1-2 degrees off centre to the right in order to keep straight."

What I think you mean is that YOU have to turn the wheel 1-2 degrees to remain in a straight line. I have to say that (providing no one has previously altered the wheel on the spline) I still need convincing that the steering geometry is correctly set.

 

It is important that you realise that there are two problems here.

1 - The wheel position (with the above caveat) is geometry influenced, and moving the s/wheel back to a horizontal position will not alter the pull to the left.

2 - The pull to the left is not necessarily due to tracking problems.

 

Please advise the make/model tyres on your car, and also the sizes.

Edited 28 March, 201412 yr by 2ndskoda

I had a previous post where I did hit a pol hole and I had got get a new tyre. While It was getting a new tyre they checked the alignment and said it was very out. The garage I went to was a high street garage, as I didn't get a spare with the Monte I didn't have much other choice. 

 

They 'aligned' the car and away I went. After aligning it, the steering wheel was way off centre. I have NEVER had any problems with my Monte pulling to the left like others. I went back again and they adjusted it, but it was still off centre. So when driving down a straight road at 30 with no camber, my steering wheel was off to the right, like your issue Marky. 

 

I eventually got my money back from them and went to a performance specialist, who double checked my alignment and sorted my steering wheel problem. Now when I'm on a straight road by steering wheel is 'pretty' centre, but I don't feel it was like this before the first garage adjusted my steering setup. I have never had a 4 wheel alignment done on my car, but I feel like I might need to get it done, just to properly make sure my steering is dead on centre.

 

Its a pain in the bum, I wish the first garage never adjusted anything, but hey-ho nothing I can do about it now. But I am having the same kind of problems as you are Marky. 

 

I'm running the standard 17" Monte wheels, with Continental Sport tyres, 205/40/17. One on the left front is a Continental Sport 5 and the one on the right is a Sport 2. Would this cause a problem? 

Edited 28 March, 201412 yr by Guest

What I think you mean is that YOU have to turn the wheel 1-2 degrees to remain in a straight line.

 

Yes you are correct with this statement

 

 

 I have to say that (providing no one has previously altered the wheel on the spline) I still need convincing that the steering geometry is correctly set.

 

The Skoda dealer has attempted to center the steering wheel before. They have talked about taking the wheel off and moving it a spline or two. I do not know for sure that they have done this.

Though my gut feeling is they have.

 

 

 

Please advise the make/model tyres on your car, and also the sizes

 

The tyres are Pirelli P-Nero 205/40 R17. All four tyres were replaced with the Pirelli's by Skoda as a "Fix" to the left hand pulling issue back in December. They replace Dunlop SportMaxx tyres of the same size.

The Pirellis did make a difference to the left hand pull as it was more severe than it is now.

 

 

A bit of history on my car.

- September 2013 I picked up the car brand new factory fresh (19 miles on the clock). Within a few days I noticed that the car was pulling left. I phoned the dealers who booked me in. Took a few weeks to get a slot as I needed a courtesy car.

- Dealer aligned the car and said it was fixed. Picked the car up and no difference. This went on for quite a while.

- December I finally got a new set of Pirellis authorised by Skoda as a fix to the issue. Car still has the problem.

- Dealer has been working with Skoda UK (Very slowly) and the car has been back 3-4 times for alignment after alignment. They have even tried non-standard alignmnet settings to offset the pull. Non of this has worked. I also think they have moved the steering wheel as part of this as I have complained that the steering wheel is not centered when driving in a straight line.

- I have had two independant alignments done (That I have paid for). Neither have fixed the issue but I fell the last alignment done (see the images I posted above) was the best yet. But the chap doing the alignment has said there is no more an alignment can do and you should look at re-calibrating the steering angle sensor.

Also this site suggests that a 4-wheel alignment should be followed up with a Steering Angle Sensor re-calibration This site also suggests that some sensors re-calibrate automatically. So does the Fabia auto-calibrate?

 

I have a feeling that the alignment machine the dealers are using is not that good and is not that accurate.

 

At the moment the non-centered steering wheel is annoying me more that the fact it goes left when you let go of the wheel. So I was looking at centralising the wheel and living with it.

 

I am now at the point where I argue to get the car replaced/returned. Which I don't really want the stress of (I have plenty of other things on my plate at the moment). I also don't know what I would replace the car with. I am not happy that another Monte Carlo Tech would not have the same problem. The dealer has several that do what my car does.

Or I live with the problem as it is much better that it was originally but not 100% (call it 95% fixed).

Edited 28 March, 201412 yr by marky

2ndSkoda: In a nutshell are you saying:

 

- If the steering wheel has been moved before get the dealer to put it back how it was originally. Redo the four-wheel alignment and the look at calibrating the Steering angle sensor.

 

- If the wheel hasn't been moved. DONT move it. An alignment has been done so just get the Steering angle sensor calibrated.

 

If this does not solve the left hand pull and the steering wheel is still not center then its something other than and alignment issue.

 

The above is my thinking I just want a sanity check that I am going the right way with this.

Marky

have tried twice this morning to respond to your last post without success - can you PM me your email address?

2nd Skoda

Pm sent. Thanks 2ndskoda

Lets try again to see if this gets through!!!

Hi Marky

I can see that you are trying to come to terms with this overall problem, and need to sit back and see where you have reached in your request for answers.

Let me reiterate the fact that it is important that you realise that you have two problems here - 

1 - The wheel position-  Firstly accept that if you change the position of the wheel on the splines, this will not influence in any way the pulling problem.

When I mentioned earlier that the geometry of the rack and steering wheel position is decided at factory assembly time - AS A GOOD GUIDE, (others may wish to confirm this as well) when stationary, completely remove your ignition keys, jiggle the steering wheel - and when you hear the steering lock engage - the steering wheel should be as close as possible to horizontal. If this is not the case, I would think that it is possible that your dealer (or someone else) has altered the wheel position. Get into a skoda showroom and try this on a new car for confirmation.

As a point of interest, leaving the steering lock on - take a look (on level ground) to visually confirm that the front wheels are indeed forward facing, as far as one can tell, and not biased to one side. (NB I wont deal with that possibility at this stage)

I would also repeat my opinion (and it is just a personal opinion) that if NO alteration has been made to the steering wheel position, then the alignment is still suspect.

I can bring to mind just one occasion when following a severe bump to a car wheel, (not a Skoda) the rack was shoved slightly to one side. BUT, I think that all modern cars are now not just clamped, but are properly position located before clamp/tightening takes place.

 

2 - Pulling to the left - 

so many people immediately get carried away by comments like 'it's the tracking that's out' - so they rush out and have this done once, twice, even three times.

Ask yourself, how many cars have you seen with obvious wear on the two front tyre inner edges OR outer edges - the track is obviously out - but it does not follow that that vehicle pulls one way or another. The principle of a steering rack is to enable equalisation - so that any misalignment in the track is shared between each side. 

Therefore/hence wear to both inner edges (or outer edges)  I retired from the motor trade many years ago, so do not have access anymore to test facilities, BUT, if this was my car (and assuming that the foregoing has been professionally checked and corrected) I would let go both track rod NS & OS, and ensure that both McPherson struts are free to easily move from extremity to extremity. With that confirmed (no stiffness on one side compared with the other) - refit the TR ends, and when on the ground check for equal vertical suspension deflection both sides.

My next area of consideration has to be the tyres !! I assume that you currently have 205x40x17 tyres fitted, AND that you have not lowered the car from the original spec.

This is only a personal opinion - BUT I believe that the possible combination of low profile tyres (which provide certain wall movement containment)

together with asymmetric tread patterns and also the curse of directional tyres is undesirable. Dynamic characteristics also differ from brand to brand.

I would be fairly certain that (if for example) you borrowed a set of 195x55x15 wheels/tyres purely as a temporary measure, you would find that the pulling would be a thing of the past.

I do not pretend to have all the answers, or indeed know it all - it is your decision where to go next and what to do. My main purpose in following this thread is to try to make people think through problems rather than blindly accept here-say or some of the misleading suggestions made on this forum. One of my biggest beefs is the lack of skill in the industry - today we have 'chunk changers' (technicians they are now called) rather than people who were trained to identify problems and repair where necessary.

I wish you luck in your quest for definitive answers - keep us all informed.

Incidentally -  I never asked you if your car was a diesel or petrol??

 

regards

2nd Skoda

Edited 1 April, 201412 yr by 2ndskoda

Could my issue be related to tyre balancing?

 

This website says that it could have a bearing on pulling to one side.

http://www.balancemycar.co.uk/pull-issues/

 

I would have thought if it was then moving the wheels around would change the direction of pull.

 

Also I guess the structure of the sidewall is what is different between the Dunlop tyres and other makes, hence why the issue is reduced when you swap out the Dunlops.

Edited 2 April, 201412 yr by marky