LED Lamps

[Johnnyc]

Anyone installed replacement LED car lamps lately. I know this has been discussed previously but as the technology seems to be improving all the time, i'm interested in anyone's opinion of their performance and ease of installation.

I'd like them for f+r sidelights and brakelights but I don't want to waste money if they won't do the job.

[WW_VRS]

Furby owner here but I'd be very interested to know as well.

I love the fast response of LED brake lights in particular, not as worried about the others at this point but still very much interested.

Things like:

* Can you just swap the regular brake/rear light bulb out for an LED one?

* What's the lifespan of these things?

* Cost?

* Recommended companies?

@Johnnyc - hope you don't mind adding a few more questions

[fluffmeister]

A lot of bike shops sell LED replacement stop and tail lights. I have them in the speed triple (Normal 21/5 replacement) and had one in the VOR (beeeehatch used to trash filaments through vibes).

Was thinking of them for the furby actually, they do run to around a tenner each though. If you really wanted to (tiz a little ch^v_is^h though) you can get ones that do swirly patterns etc.

Clicky for Bulbs

Fluff'

[jjc]

Try this site

http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/

John

[Johnnyc]

I'm more worried about the computer thinking the lamps are out as they draw such little current and bombarding me with warnings everytime I start the car.

[WW_VRS]

You would probably want to add some load resistors to avoid that. Surprised they don't come with them though :(

[Guest Fabia 12v]

Would certainly be interested about the brake lights for replacement with LEDs, a good bit brighter than standard bulbs... im supprised for safety manufacturers are not fitting these as standard yet

[mrkev]

I bought some leds from ultraleds a while ago but I wasn't impressed. It probably depends on what car you put them in but in my old Leon the original bulbs were alot brighter. Also, when lights were on in car the brake light bulbs didn't show much difference between the static light and when i was braking.

I think alot of it depends on the reflecter behind the bulb. Some of the recent ones have leds on the side of the bulb to help but to me original bulbs are better.

If you put the indicator ones in you'll need a resiter box thingy or the indicator module will think a bulb has blow and you'll get quick flashing indicators. Personally I'd stick with the ordinary bulbs.

[dstev2000]

The genuine LED lamps on such cars as the new Passat and certain BMW's are spread out over a relatively large area compared to the aftermarket ones that are all stuffed into a very small area, the OEM ones have what looks like a magnifier lens over each LED as well.

There are loads of cars out there with LED rears/brake/indicators.

You cant miss the flickering effect at night from them

New Jag XJ, BMW 3 series coupe, Audi A8, VW Phaeton, some E classes feel free to add to this guys

I've looked into replacing indicators and brake lights but I am totally unimpressed with the performance and the hassle with resistors and the like.

Stick with the old bulbs.

I have fitted white LED sidelights to my octy and they have ruddy well popped after 2 weeks!

Long life my a$$ !!!

Going back to the old'uns now

[agent006]

One thing to consider is that it looks like there are 5 rear sidelight bulbs on each side for the Octy 2. Could be expensive.

[Tech1e]

And remember some of the rear side light bulbs on the Octy 2 are actually 21w bulbs that have variable voltage fed to them to change them from brake lights to side lights.

[Johnnyc]

You would probably want to add some load resistors to avoid that. Surprised they don't come with them though :(

Yeah I know but would it not make sense to 'include' them in the lamps. I mean I don't think that reducing current consumption is really that important. It's more the look and brighness that matters.

They could even include a wire link you can cut out if you don't need the resistor and want to take advantage of the reduced power requirements!

[Tech1e]

Just as a point as an extension to the previous note by myself is that the rear lights for example are not fed with 12v. This would effect a 12v LED light I would have thought.

[flyingscot]

I believe I am right in saying that LED's still actually sit in a legal grey area, not officially legal but then again, not illegal!

[Johnnyc]

And remember some of the rear side light bulbs on the Octy 2 are actually 21w bulbs that have variable voltage fed to them to change them from brake lights to side lights.

Yeah I heard that. Not sure of the reason but would guess it's because it reduces wiring and doesn't require bulb failure monitoring of several circuits. The computer just monitors the current demand on either the high or low voltages and uses this to warn you that a rear bulb is out.

As far as I know modern cars use solid state circuitry for running the indicators. In old systems the relays ran faster if a bulb went out because the circuit resitance increased. New systems are smart and are not affected this way but they make the indicators run faster intentionally to warn you if a lamp goes out. Maybe there's a way to disable this in VAG-COM. Unlikely though as it's a safety warning system really.

[Johnnyc]

Just as a point as an extension to the previous note by myself is that the rear lights for example are not fed with 12v. This would effect a 12v LED light I would have thought.

It might be worth a try I suppose. Thing is though the simple way to reduce the lamp voltage is to use an in line resistor or to control the lamps via power transistors. Either item would dispell a serious amount of heat and I doubt that's the way Skoda have acheived it.

I would guess that the reduced brightness is acheived by supplying a reduced voltage to the lamps at high frequency. This would partially tackle the heat problems but would potentially destroy the LED lamps. Even worse, it could damage the cars lighting control circuits.

I think i've just talked myself out of giving them a go now!

Why must Skodas be some damn advanced?

[Tech1e]

Most things electrical these days on Skodas are duty cycled. This allows greater control of the comsumer and also has a built in diagnostic facility. Most will run on a duty cycle of 2 - 99% so if anything reads 1 or 100% it can log a high/low fault and take measures.

Just realised what i said isnt technically true. Voltage stays the same. What is altered is the time that the duty cycle is on or off. Much like a strip light it has a frequency. The closer the on off cycle the brighter the light appears although the voltage remains constant.

Alot of duty cycled components now run 5v, which means they will still work even if the battery is dead flat.

A classic example of duty cycling is the interior light, as it dims when you shut the door the voltage stays the same to the bulb its just the duty cycle is altered so you see more of the off time making the bulb dimmer.

[Johnnyc]

Ah! 'Duty Cycling' that's the word I was looking for. forgive my ignorance it's been a few years since I did any of this stuff. My theory is right though, if a bit basic

[Johnnyc]

If I decide to try LED bulbs, i'll run a scope over the wiring first to check!

[johnjohnhealy]

I have white LED sidelight bulbs fitted in my superb and the first set I bought off E-bay were crap and only lasted a couple of weeks, however I noticed that Halfords were selling ones that look identical so bought some and returned the e-bay ones in the halfords packaging and got another replacement set, I fitted them in february and they have been fine, I use my car all night and bulbs never last much longer than a month or so, so these ones are actually doing very well. The only thing i dont like is that although they are packaged as 'White' they still have a blue tinge to them, no-where near as blue as actual blue LED's but still a bit too 'Boy Racery' for me.

I have tried LED tail lights and brake Lights too but despite all the claims they are NOT as bright as standard bulbs, even with rear facing LED's to shine in the reflector, and annoyingly every time you turn your lights on (or worse with the brake lights, every time you press the brake pedal!!) you get, 'BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP' :Yikes: (que heart attack) orange light on dash!! :(

Even after 2 years and 150 odd miles a night that beeeeep still makes me soil my pants every time i hear it!! once i had low washer fluid, brake pads low, low fuel, bulb failiure and low oil all going at the same time, so after the 6 seatbelt bongs I got 5 beeeps

[flyingscot]

I have white LED sidelight bulbs fitted in my superb and the first set I bought off E-bay were crap and only lasted a couple of weeks, however I noticed that Halfords were selling ones that look identical so bought some and returned the e-bay ones in the halfords packaging and got another replacement set, I fitted them in february and they have been fine, I use my car all night and bulbs never last much longer than a month or so, so these ones are actually doing very well.

IMHO thats shocking and not something that you should be boasting about on a web forum. Thats very decietful returning another product a similar product packaging to the store that you haven't bought it from. People seem to think it's 'harmless' but it's as bad as shoplifting and we've had a few people prosecuted for a deception charge on that behavior. :thumbdwn:

[johnjohnhealy]

A case of too much and not enough info here I think, Too much in that where I got them from was largely irrelevent, and not enough in that I should have added 'to original seller' after "returned them in halfords packaging"

As the packaging (and product) I purchased from halfords was identical to the E-Bay one, I used the empty Halfords pack to return the original faulty lights to the original supplier and was subsequently sent a new set from this supplier, therefore no fraud or deception was carried out. Perhaps i'll be more careful and proof read my posts in future :dunce:

However, I have worked in retail management for many years (I was area manager for one of uk's largest electrical wholesalers, not some made up title like 'Produce manager' in tesco etc) and If you let something like that get to you then your in the wrong business!! While it would indeed have been considered deception, it most certianly is not comparable to shoplifting, as at the end of the day any store manager worth his salt will ensure he gets the identical product returned to their supplier and replaced/refunded as neccesary so as not to incur any financial losses, whereas shoplifting results in a direct loss to the company. I feel a lot of people dont take shoplifting seriously due in part to the popular misconception that all large companies are 'insured against that kind of thing' :confused:

It also would not be financialy worthwhile for a large company to persue a deception charge against a person for a product of such low value when you take into account the cost of time/effort involved to the company.

I am NOT condoning this kind of behaviour, just suggesting that there are far more important things going on in the world to be worrying about.

[dstev2000]

I bought some off eBay and they were crap with a purlpe tinge to them, they popped after 2 weeks, I too noticed Halfords selling them and they were advertised as white (yeah right!) so I bought some, lo and behold they popped after 2 weeks.

Might not be crappy lamps but might be fluctuating voltage on the car? if the voltage dips the current draw will rise no?

My Octavia has a bad case of dimming headlights if you switch on the heated rear window or pull the window switch if its already closed.

Either way, considering the LED's were a tenner they should be better engineered than they are (4 LED's and 2 resistors).

To sum up, I think after market LED's are crap!

[flyingscot]

A case of too much and not enough info here I think' date=' Too much in that where I got them from was largely irrelevent, and not enough in that I should have added 'to original seller' after "returned them in halfords packaging"

As the packaging (and product) I purchased from halfords was identical to the E-Bay one, I used the empty Halfords pack to return the original faulty lights to the original supplier and was subsequently sent a new set from this supplier, therefore no fraud or deception was carried out. Perhaps i'll be more careful and proof read my posts in future :dunce:

However, I have worked in retail management for many years (I was area manager for one of uk's largest electrical wholesalers, not some made up title like 'Produce manager' in tesco etc) and If you let something like that get to you then your in the wrong business!! While it would indeed have been considered deception, it most certianly is not comparable to shoplifting, as at the end of the day any store manager worth his salt will ensure he gets the identical product returned to their supplier and replaced/refunded as neccesary so as not to incur any financial losses, whereas shoplifting results in a direct loss to the company. I feel a lot of people dont take shoplifting seriously due in part to the popular misconception that all large companies are 'insured against that kind of thing' :confused:

It also would not be financialy worthwhile for a large company to persue a deception charge against a person for a product of such low value when you take into account the cost of time/effort involved to the company.

I am NOT condoning this kind of behaviour, just suggesting that there are far more important things going on in the world to be worrying about.[/quote']

Righty ho, a totally different story however! Need to be careful what you write esp. since police prosecute on evidence of these forums!

Depends on the type of company and the way it's set up as for getting the money back. Oh and shops will now push the all charges possible line now, even supermarkets. The supermarkets are responsible for a lot of the current trouble as they took the 'customer is always right line too seriously'.

I know of a few cases of attempting to gain goods by deception that have been done at the shops I worked in. Some for minor amounts too. We did it as if the word gets out that it is easy to return things to a store your in trouble. In Scotland you have no choice to prosecute or not, if the crime is committed and you call the police they take it from there. We

[johnjohnhealy]

The supermarkets are responsible for a lot of the current trouble as they took the 'customer is always right line too seriously'.

Agreed,

Our local ASDA has a huge sign up saying "NO EXCUSES - GUARANTEED", basically an invitation to all the local un-washed to rip them off left right and centre, I know loss leaders can bring in large profits for companies but surely this is taking things a bit far?!

Back on to the LED's, I fitted an after market HID Xenon kit at the same time as my second set of LED sidelights and I believe the lack of heat is whats keeping my LED's alive, as LED's run cooler than conventional lamps (lamp is actually the correct term for what we describe as bulbs - bulbs grow, lamps glow) I believe the heat from normal halogen Lamps kills them.