BINGO

Especially the last sentence.

Do the course, get the rubber stamp approval.

job done.

I had an Uncle in the Traffic Police, some of the "yarns" he recounted(but factual yarns) were almost unbelivebable.

Plus know of instances in the small local community where off duty Polis were spirited away from the scene of an accident, until they sobered up.

So yes double standards are applied by the Police.

BUT

Our old RUC, actually had a tremondously good record for not crashing Police Cars, nor indeed shooting bystanders/innocent parties simply because they had attended a firearms course.

Feel free to look up the statistics, I cant be troubled.

btw

Doc. "Z"

Yes I make assumptions, based on 50 years observation and experience, the way the natural selection process tuned our brains to work.

To survive in a harsh unforgiving environment.

So basically we will be right far oftener than we will be wrong.

Regards,

Marcus

 

I know exactly what you are talking about here Marcus, I have first hand experience and heard stories from all sorts in the Police here, shocking! A relative (in law) in the PSNI wrote off his wifes car which he didn't have permission to use, wasn't insured on even if he was and was absolutely steaming! His colleagues attended and that was the end of it, she just lost her brand new car and he was in the dog house....... Yet the same man has great tails of what he gets up to in work......  Not the case for the majority of course, but it's frightening how many 'stories' I have been told in jest! Certainly outweighs what I have heard on the mainland.    

 

But I have worked with the Police here a lot and even more so with different Police forces all over the UK and in GB it's a totally different standard to here and in my opinion is a lot higher, more specifically with regards to driving as the Police in GB even know how to use indicators and actually know what the highway code is let alone road craft! They genuinely in the vast majority are a lot more professional. For that reason I feel is is deeply unfair to compare our equivalent in this sort of context. To be fair, the overall standards of driving culturally in NI is utterly crap and people who join the Police and do a course seem to fall right back to what they are used to. There was a case in the middle of a large town (midday) here within the last year of a marked Police car on it's roof in a 30 zone with no other cars involved.  

 

Please show me where there is a law permitting bikes to lane-splt.

 

There is no specific line of text in legislation that states you may filter/lane split on a motorcycle, but not everything is written to be allowed in law. More appropriately, it is not written that it is illegal and is deemed to be a legal act in the UK. This is supported by case law and even the highway code advises on how to filter/lane split safely for bikers. Some countries like Germany, it is illegal but in many it is not, just like here. Likewise I could ask a question like 'show me where there is a law permitting you to look at a sat nav screen while driving', there isn't any such law but it is certainly not illegal to do so, but like filtering it may only be done in a safe manor and if deemed to not be by the authorities you 'may' be guilty of another offence such as careless driving etc etc. I hope that explains it sore of kind of in my own unique random way.

 

 

Our famous, and justifibly so, Antrim Coast Road, is unusual in that it very closely follows the shoreline or cliff edge for much of its length.

Flaming Antrim folk, you don't own the place you know! I assume you are referring to the 'Causeway Coastal Route', which runs through 2 counties not just Antrim.(unless County Antrim has another coast) :p Not much cliff edge on it though, spend a good bit with no water in sight :(

 

 

There are places, more towards the Northern cliff based section, where the road is barely more than one car wide.

 

Well even the narrowest parts are wide enough for me to drive a coach and still get a car past so it's not all that bad. Unless you are thinking of going off it and up Torr road, that's a good bit narrower indeed

 

 

 

But unforutnately bikers out for a "blast"(as I have seen it described in writing by bikers) do not employ this simple survival stratgem.

And cough cough, btw!

A good blast fair clears the head of Saturday night's beer, of 05:00/06:00/07;00 of a Sunday morning, when, God willing, the roads should be empty.

Marcus

 

Come on now Marcus don't let me down here, your halo is blinding me. The 'out for a blast' line which I am sure we have all heard people use in reference to driving cars too. Could we replace this disgraceful term with something like your much used phrase on this forum, giving your car a  "good old Italian tune up"? Or perhaps you actually mean you take it to some Italian mechanic?? lol 

Hmmm? I could argue an "Itialian tune up" would generally take place on a good "A" road, dual carriageway, or Motorway. Merely to give the engine a good work out in as safe a manner as possible.

While those "out for a blast" on a motorcycle, generally seek out the twisty bits.

Anyway, I was actually thinking of a post on another forum, where a young man lost his best friend, a "local hero" footballer, enjoyed a good night out, fathered a couple of children (but not married) generally a sociable lad/jack the lad by all accounts.

Who died of an early Sunday morning, when an older/elderly couple pulled out in front of him., I do not know the circumstances or visibility at the junction concerned.

And it was "all their fault".

I near got lynched for suggesting the driver of the car may well be traumatised for the rest of their life, never drive again etc etc.

And anyway what speed was yer mate likely to have been doing? (I tactfully did NOT wonder was his mate still drunk/over the limit/hungover, which from the description of his busy social life may/could have been a moot point, early of a Sunday morning.

And yes, I too drove like an eejit, when younger, perhaps an element of good fortune, perhaps a bit of restraint.

Who knows, but I did not crash, frightened the daylights out of myself from time to time, and had a very few very narrow escapes.(involving trees hedges and other non car type objects)

regards,

Marcus

Edited 8 June, 201412 yr by dieseldogg

lets look at emergency driving |(unfortunately i cannot join in the 'hilarity' of a police officer (or anyone else) being injured in a car accident)

 

1) I do not come to work to kill/injure/main

 

2) I drive to (on average) to 10 emergency calls per shift (14 shifts per month = 140 emergency runs per month x12 = 1680 emergency calls per year) I cover approx 200 miles per shift = 33600 miles per year (with approx 16800 miles of thoes being under emergency conditions)

 

3) I do not come to work to kill/injure/main

 

4) UK police/fire/ambulance driving training is the best in the world for public safety (look at the states, UK police do not routinely ram suspect vehicles off the road)

 

5) I do not come to work to kill/injure/main

 

6) anyone quoting Daily Wail reporting as a legitamate source of information is barking

 

7) any police officer/paramedic/firefighter who is unfortunate enough to have an accident will tell you your life ends for an eternity (even if not at fault), we are held to a higher standard than the average motorist.

The 99% of the incidents I have witnessed, the biker has been at fault, no question. Excessive speed and complete lack of respect for the rules of the road. The last one was Mr. Crotch-Rocket going between two lorries, Dutch and German. The result was one less bike on the road. The rules are there for your safety as much as they are everyone else's.

Please show me where there is a law permitting bikes to lane-splt. Also where RVLR has a different set of rules for bikes, allowing the use of main-beam to dazzle other drivers. Just because you think it's a great idea, doesn't make it legal.

You sound exactly like the kind of biker who ignores all the rules of the road, "because you're on a bike". However, I wouldn't move over to block you, I make sure I stay well away from people like you on the road, because you are a danger to yourself and everyone else on the around you. I'll make that assumption based on your post, like your, epically incorrect, one about me.

One thing we will agree on is your example of the bike between two lorries (presumably at speed). I agree they deserve the consequences. Really annoys me when I'm on my bike, doing the same speed as the rest of the traffic (ie 70mph) and a bike starts going between cars.As stated by another forum member there is no law saying it is illegal. Having passed various traffic police whilst filtering and also asking a friend who is a traffic officer they have no issues with it. But then you obviously know best! I don't use my main beam to dazzle motorists but as an aid to make myself more visible - sensible i think.Given I am to the side of the vehicle and not directly behind it is hardly going to dazzle or cause the motorist an issue. Funny that for years motorcyclists have been advised to ride with there lights on during the day (yes I know it's not full beam) to make them more visible and now they've decided to do similar with introducing daytime running lights on cars. Clearly helps to be seen! If I ride in the manner you appear to deem every motorcyclist does then I wonder how I managed to pass the IAM test? Surely you must agree that the level of concentration/awareness of a lot (in fact majority) of motorists these days is appalling? Lane discipline, distracted by sat nav, phones or just talking to passengers. Astounds me the amount of people that I watch that rarely check their mirrors and even fail to see emergency vehicles with lights ablaze and siren on directly behind them. What chance have they got of seeing a bike!

Can anyone enlighten me as to how many, or what %age of advanced Police drivers fail, either (i) the selection or (ii) the actual training course?

Or how many re-sits are they allowed to "learn the drill"?

Might be a pertinent FOI request for some of the Constabularies?

regards,

Marcus

PS

I too am absolutly astounded, on a regular basis, at the apparent, and continued, oblivion of some other motorists to the wailing sirens and flashing lights of emergency vehicles.

 

 

 

I do feel that it is a minority which gives bikers a bad name,

 

I disagree, imo there's a higher percentage of idiots on motor bikes than idiots in cars.  It's more a case of the majority give the minority a bad name.  Oh and yes I do hold a full motorbike license.

It will have been the polices fault, it always is according to the current government and their media spin anyway.

 

Acording to the home secretary the violence at the miners strike was my fault (i was 6 years old) hilsbrough was my fault and stephen lawrence was my fault despite both of those things occurring before i joined the police and whilst i was still at school.

 

Its always the polices fault, so if you think you can drive better etc etc etc why not join?

 

Rant over.

One thing we will agree on is your example of the bike between two lorries (presumably at speed). I agree they deserve the consequences. Really annoys me when I'm on my bike, doing the same speed as the rest of the traffic (ie 70mph) and a bike starts going between cars.As stated by another forum member there is no law saying it is illegal. Having passed various traffic police whilst filtering and also asking a friend who is a traffic officer they have no issues with it. But then you obviously know best! I don't use my main beam to dazzle motorists but as an aid to make myself more visible - sensible i think.Given I am to the side of the vehicle and not directly behind it is hardly going to dazzle or cause the motorist an issue. Funny that for years motorcyclists have been advised to ride with there lights on during the day (yes I know it's not full beam) to make them more visible and now they've decided to do similar with introducing daytime running lights on cars. Clearly helps to be seen! If I ride in the manner you appear to deem every motorcyclist does then I wonder how I managed to pass the IAM test? Surely you must agree that the level of concentration/awareness of a lot (in fact majority) of motorists these days is appalling? Lane discipline, distracted by sat nav, phones or just talking to passengers. Astounds me the amount of people that I watch that rarely check their mirrors and even fail to see emergency vehicles with lights ablaze and siren on directly behind them. What chance have they got of seeing a bike!

 

Standard, predictable answer there: so many bad drivers on the road, that instead of being the good example, it's an excuse to drive badly.

 

I've heard your "arguments" regurgitiated time and time again by members on here, other forums and down the pub. There is an officer on here who has said that he drives with the main-beam on all the time because "riding is bike is a complicated thing to do" and therefore it's a task and a half to turn it off and return to dipped beam. Same officer said I would be setting a bad example if I did the same in my car though - but surely 2 lights would make people twice as likely to see me? To date, no motorcyclist has agreed that the laws of the road actually apply to motorcycles too. (Although I have seen bikers complain about pedal-cyclists, so clearly bikers are aware of the rules.)

 

I went shopping earlier, coming home  I have to cross a roundabout on a dual carrigeway. (I walk to the shops, use the crossing as required and stay out of the cycle-lane that we share the pavement with). A biker launched from lane 1 (at the entry) to lane 2 (on the roundabout) back to lane 1 (on exit) nearly going up the back of the Focus in lane 1. A burst of the throttle, cut the car up in lane 2 (a Fabia) and away. Tee hee, must be such fun to scare the crap out of other people on the road. These are the sort of actions that lead me to the statement I made in my first post, which you've taken such exception to.

Ok my final reply. Yes I agree the laws of the road apply to all road users. I try to set a good example when riding or driving and rather than deeming it an excuse that there are bad drivers therefore we should all just be like that, I was trying to make a point (which you clearly wish to ignore). I'm quite amazed that every motorcyclist you see rides like an idiot, maybe you should become a police officer and teach everyone the rules of the road.Anyway life's too short (especially if you're a motorcyclist as you want us all dead). You're entitled to your opinion and we're never going to agree.

Ok my final reply. Yes I agree the laws of the road apply to all road users. I try to set a good example when riding or driving and rather than deeming it an excuse that there are bad drivers therefore we should all just be like that, I was trying to make a point (which you clearly wish to ignore). I'm quite amazed that every motorcyclist you see rides like an idiot, maybe you should become a police officer and teach everyone the rules of the road.Anyway life's too short (especially if you're a motorcyclist as you want us all dead). You're entitled to your opinion and we're never going to agree.

 

I've given you the same courtesy of ignoring statements, as you have of making stuff up......I have never stated I wanted all motorcyclists dead. Please show me the evidence where I have said this. You're entitled to your opinion of what's been said, although in true police style, it does woefully differ from the facts.

 

 

I assume that everyone on the road is an idiot and will do my utmost to prepare for them to so the stupidest thing imaginable, motorcyclists and the police are given special treatment with this anticipation. Being prepared and anticipating stupidity has helped me stay accident-free for 25 years. Assuming everyone is going to do the stupiest thing imaginable was taught as part of my driving instruction some 25 years ago.

6) anyone quoting Daily Wail reporting as a legitamate source of information is barking

 

Amen to that!

 

This all turned into a bit of a bikes vs cars peeing competition didn't it? I work for a motorcycle manufacturer and many of the staff own and ride bikes regularly, I am happy to report that all of them bar one would fall under the category of "responsible motorists" who are respectful, follow the rules of the road to a T and filter in a responsible fashion. Conversely I've seen plenty of bikers who fall into the "Irresponsible motorists" category.

 

I've also seen plenty of police drivers with terrible lane discipline who seem unaware of what the little stick on the left of the steering column is for, and who clearly think such niceties are reserved for the rest of us worthless peons...Conversely I've also seen plenty of highly responsible emergency services drivers who were evidently very aware of the dangers they faced when cutting through junctions with their blues on etc.

 

Point being, none of us where there so none of us know which motorist was at fault, or in fact whether either of them were genuinely being irresponsible.

the vast majority of bikers/riders/drivers (and yes i include WVM and taxi driver) do so in a perfectly safe and effective way.

 

some people drive/ride like idiots

 

its people who can be idiots, not the mode of transport

I do however wonder what conditioning effect the regular driving of a Police Car (in particular) has on its driver.

To wit:

Marked Police cars are easily seen, everybody notes their presence and in more than courteous in making way for them, leaving room, waving them out, etc. etc.

This will inevetibly condition the Police Driver to expect this behavouir,

just as

non Police drivers are conditioned to expect other drivers to act like idiots.

Which is bound to have a bearing on how they routinely drive/expect to be able to drive.i.e other drivers getting out of their way.

Or am I rambling/misguided?

Marcus

Marked Police cars are easily seen, everybody notes their presence and in more than courteous in making way for them, leaving room, waving them out, etc. etc.

This will inevetibly condition the Police Driver to expect this behavouir,

 

 

 

Best one ive heard in ages

 

The lights and sirens on a police car, ambulance and fire engine act like a cloaking device that prevents other motorists from looking in their rear view mirrors. our sirens also turn up the stereo in the vehicle in front to the special 'siren cancelling' level.

 

If motorists continuously fail to see a 11 foot tall bright yellow 4 tonne ambulance with enough lights to contribute to global warming coming up behind them, what chance does a marked car have?

Edited 10 June, 201412 yr by medic999

Ah BUT!

An Ambulance is NOT a Police Car.

I have observed the contrasting behaviours, in respect of recognition of Police Cars vis-a-vis ambulances  in the course of driving over some near 40 years.

Anyway, half-times the Ambulance is going for chips, so one never really knows, does one?

But one DOES know the Polis WILL nick one if one obstructs them.

regards,

Marcus

Anyway, half-times the Ambulance is going for chips, so one never really knows, does one?

 

 

 

i wish

I don't think ambulances "patrol" like police cars do. (Although, at least round here, they do spread out and lurk in dark corners to reduce response times.) Have seen many police cars switch the blues on to shove into a queue, only to switch them off once in. (Can't believe that you would get a call, stick the blues on only to have the call cancelled 10 seconds later.) Never seen an ambulance (or fire engine) behave in such a manner.

 

 

 

 

If motorists continuously fail to see a 11 foot tall bright yellow 4 tonne ambulance with enough lights to contribute to global warming coming up behind them, what chance does a marked car have?

 

Following on from the biker's need to have main-beam on to be seen, I saw a bus with it's main-beam on today too. Red double-decker it was. I have to wonder why. It's not like it has a requirement to scythe it's way through traffic.

 

Red double-decker trumps ambulance for not being seen maybe? ;)

A bit like the "magic" flashing beacons, which appear to make certain drivers feel way more "important" than their humble errand deserves.

And MUST be kept switched on at ALL times.

And is only needlessly distracting to other road users especially in times of poor visibility.

Not to mention the  even more "magic" traffic cones, which when deployed at distances between 1.0 and 5.0m from the vehicle somehow;

(i) make it more easily seen, during otherwise bright clear summer daylight hours.

and

(ii) WILL stop a 40 tonne HGV dead in its tracks of a winter's day, inside of 4.0m, when deployed just round a blind corner.

etc

etc

M

I got bored of reading this rubbish very early on. I think some people need to either learn the facts, or keep their opinions to themselves, to avoid sounding stupid. We don't know what happened, so why jump on anyone involved?

Phil

Vrs Phil.

Surely the easiest thing for you is to not click on the 'one less vRS on the road....'

Just saying.... :-)

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Touche'

Driving home from Aberdeen today, 315 miles, of trouble free motoring until a couple of miles from home. Travelling down a country B road with a 30mph limit and a white van bowls round the corner on the wrong side of the road doing a good bit more than 30. It swerved to miss me as I forced into the dyke. You guessed it, a police ford transit.

Edited 10 June, 201412 yr by Johntyboy

Any damage mate? :(

I don't think ambulances "patrol" like police cars do. (Although, at least round here, they do spread out and lurk in dark corners to reduce response times.) Have seen many police cars switch the blues on to shove into a queue, only to switch them off once in. (Can't believe that you would get a call, stick the blues on only to have the call cancelled 10 seconds later.) Never seen an ambulance (or fire engine) behave in such a manner.

Following on from the biker's need to have main-beam on to be seen, I saw a bus with it's main-beam on today too. Red double-decker it was. I have to wonder why. It's not like it has a requirement to scythe it's way through traffic.

Red double-decker trumps ambulance for not being seen maybe? ;)

I can assure you that having calls cancelled after 10 seconds or a very short time happens on a daily basis. There are many reasons it can happen, the main one being that another unit calls up who are closer and volunteers for the job, therefore cancelling the need for the first unit.

Pretty straight forward really had you thought about it!!

Any damage mate? :(

No damage thankfully.