One less vRS on the road...

[neil_f]

I usually have little sympathy for motorcyclists, .

Interesting comment!So why do you have little sympathy? I'm a motorcyclist and have been involved in the past in a serious accident caused by a motorist. Yes, you get some bikers that ride like idiots but if you made everyone do a bike test before driving a car I guarantee they would have far greater awareness. Majority of car driver's do not realise the implications they can cause and probably aren't bothered cause they aren't the ones that are injured. I used to use my bike as daily transport covering 20k miles a year. The standard of driving and many near misses that I experienced was horrific. I know this is slightly off topic and clearly the police car is in the wrong in this instance.

[giandougl]

Police are a very necessary body of people, cursed and blessed by the general public.

They are there to keep law and order, so if someone steps out-of-line then they must expect some sort of control to toe-the-line again..

Personally I think there should be more foot-patrols as opposed to more vehicle patrols, having said that, I don't want less vehicle patrols !!

[RainbowFire]

Interesting comment!So why do you have little sympathy? I'm a motorcyclist and have been involved in the past in a serious accident caused by a motorist. Yes, you get some bikers that ride like idiots but if you made everyone do a bike test before driving a car I guarantee they would have far greater awareness. Majority of car driver's do not realise the implications they can cause and probably aren't bothered cause they aren't the ones that are injured. I used to use my bike as daily transport covering 20k miles a year. The standard of driving and many near misses that I experienced was horrific. I know this is slightly off topic and clearly the police car is in the wrong in this instance.

 

Not to re-start the perennial cars vs bikes thing but: I see those (and we'll agree to call them...) idiots on the road every day: driving well in excess of the speed limit, weaving in and out of traffc - at said excessive speed - and blinding everyone with main-beam. (I really don't need to "be aware of you" when you're on the other side of a dual-carridgeway at 2a.m)

 

It would be interesting what reaction you got if you made bikers sit in the driving seat of a car, whilst other bikers acted in such a manner.

 

The majority if incidents I've seen involving bikes, it has been the fault of the biker, yet we (car drivers) are the ones who are supposed to look out for bikers. If the rules of the road were adhered to, this would be less of a requirement.

 

 

I do feel that it is a minority which gives bikers a bad name, but that minority, like the minority of police drivers who do the same, give the impression that everyone else sees.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Wonder if he gets done for driving with undue care and attention, think they are best drivers in the world.

 

Hope every body is all right must have been shifting to do that amount of damage all joking apart.

 

Not necessarily. Modern cars are designed to crumple, so even a 30mph crash into solid railings can leave a large amount of damage.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Also would like to know if they have to inform there insurance, they have been in an accident like we do.

 

Yes, if you have a crash while on duty, you would still need to declare it when insuring your personal car.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Quite unacceptable driving regardless of the uniform.

Madness running a red light, in an inner urban setting, at the speeds alluded to, which appear to be substantiated by the damage.

Without sirens.

Especially for a routine ANPR call.

 

It's a good job you were there to know exactly what happened. Have you provided your details as a witness to the accident investigation?

 

They may have been responding to an ANPR activation, but we don't know what that was. It could have been anything from expired tax to "vehicle connected to a murder", and the appropriate response would vary.

 

I find it all depressingly predictable the way some people's reactions are to automatically assume the police were driving flat out in the most dangerous fashion, or gloat at someone else's misfortune.

 

Yes, there has been a fairly serious accident where someone was badly hurt, but can you put the pitchforks down for a while. Driving briskly through built up areas is a necessary part of the job. It carries risks which is why they are trained to a higher standard than most people, but despite that accidents can and will happen. Police accidents are investigated, and they aren't immune from prosecution if the driver is at fault.

[Nobafett]

Just because they were responding to an ANPR hit, don't assume it was just a driving offence. Vehicles can be added to it for anything. They may well have been after someone for a very serious crime. The lack of sirens suggest that may well be the case and they were relatively close and didn't want to alert them.

However, that being said, running red lights with no sirens is hard. At night it's not so bad as the lights are easily visible, but during the day, you need to almost come to a standstill and wait for the traffic to clearly see you and slow down. Only then is it safe to carry on.

It does appear he was going too quick in the circumstances, and will clearly be investigated by the IPCC, who, I can assure you, will not take it lightly.

[Johntyboy]

I had a very close encounter earlier this year. I was driving my 44 year old 911 towards a roundabout, it had two lanes as I approached and I was contemplating going left or right for a run out. Thankfully I opted for left. As I approached the roundabout the traffic coming in the opposite direction had backed up and was at a standstill blocking the carriage but in my direction it was all clear. I entered the roundabout and out of nowhere a police X5 belted round the roundabout the wrong way. If I had been going right he would have driven straight into me. What made it all seem so mad was about 10 minutes later and about 1/4 mile from the roundabout I passed him parked up in a disused road looking into his boot. Didn’t seem in too much of a rush then!

[Dr Zoidberg]

Again, without knowing the full facts, there's no way anyone can comment on whether the driving was appropriate or not.
It certainly sounds unusual for a police car to be going the wrong way round an island without lights and/or sirens and without a very good cause.

What people also often forget is that they may have been rushing to get to an immediate response job, possibly a matter of life and death, which is then resolved before they arrived, hence them then pulling over

[Nobafett]

I've got some colleagues who are genuinely scary behind the wheel, even when not responding. I refuse to let them drive. How they are allowed to blue light anywhere is beyond me!

You do a very intensive course to get you up to scratch, but some will never be good enough IMO. Just wish the job had the balls to tell people they aren't good enough.

[Mr Ree]

I personally think we should all keep our traps shut until the actual FACTS are revealed tbh..

Too many armchair pundits on this one.

 

IIRC, rozzers sometimes don't use their sirens so as not to warn scum of their presence?

Edited 7 June, 2014 by Mr Ree

[marcusthehat]

I've got some colleagues who are genuinely scary behind the wheel, even when not responding. I refuse to let them drive. How they are allowed to blue light anywhere is beyond me!

You do a very intensive course to get you up to scratch, but some will never be good enough IMO. Just wish the job had the balls to tell people they aren't good enough.

BINGO

Especially the last sentence.

Do the course, get the rubber stamp approval.

job done.

I had an Uncle in the Traffic Police, some of the "yarns" he recounted(but factual yarns) were almost unbelivebable.

Plus know of instances in the small local community where off duty Polis were spirited away from the scene of an accident, until they sobered up.

So yes double standards are applied by the Police.

BUT

Our old RUC, actually had a tremondously good record for not crashing Police Cars, nor indeed shooting bystanders/innocent parties simply because they had attended a firearms course.

Feel free to look up the statistics, I cant be troubled.

btw

Doc. "Z"

Yes I make assumptions, based on 50 years observation and experience, the way the natural selection process tuned our brains to work.

To survive in a harsh unforgiving environment.

So basically we will be right far oftener than we will be wrong.

Regards,

Marcus

Edited 7 June, 2014 by dieseldogg

[neil_f]

Not to re-start the perennial cars vs bikes thing but: I see those (and we'll agree to call them...) idiots on the road every day: driving well in excess of the speed limit, weaving in and out of traffc - at said excessive speed - and blinding everyone with main-beam. (I really don't need to "be aware of you" when you're on the other side of a dual-carridgeway at 2a.m)

It would be interesting what reaction you got if you made bikers sit in the driving seat of a car, whilst other bikers acted in such a manner.

The majority if incidents I've seen involving bikes, it has been the fault of the biker, yet we (car drivers) are the ones who are supposed to look out for bikers. If the rules of the road were adhered to, this would be less of a requirement.

I do feel that it is a minority which gives bikers a bad name, but that minority, like the minority of police drivers who do the same, give the impression that everyone else sees.

So how do you know all the incidents were the bikers fault? If you'd seen my accident you would have thought the same as I did not hit any other vehicle but crashed avoiding to do so. I also drive a car covering over 20k miles per year so drive quite a bit and yes I do see it from the car driver's point of view.

As I said previous having had an accident which meant I was off work for 6 weeks and now have limited movement in one wrist due to the action of a driver not bothering to look, having witnessed a car pulling out in front of another biker, having had numerous near misses whilst filtering through stationary or very slow traffic (perfectly legal) at what I would rate an acceptable speed (under 30mph) usually cause the driver's have been on the phone, doing something else in the car or just generally not looking and yes I use my full beam when filtering to try and make myself more visible. From your reply you sound like the type of driver that intentionally moves over to block bikers.

Due to cars becoming ever safer , people have less awareness. I got my motorbike licence before my car licence and my driving instructor commented how greater my awareness was. Anyway don't want to get into an argument. Everyone entitled to their own opinion.

[Johntyboy]

Also a month ago a young man on a motor bike was killed in my local area at around 22:00, he was travelling over a slight crest and a left hand bend when he was faced with a van carrying out a u turn. He hit the van and died at the scene. The van was a police van doing a U turn driven by a female police officer.

[marcusthehat]

I honestly think that most motorcyclists fail to appreciate that at the speeds they can so easily be travelling at, and within a very few metres of road.

Car drivers simply do not have the time to see them.

One second the road is clear, and the car driver makes the decision to pull out, next thing BAM!

Not in all cases, but certainly a factor in some/most?

Simply because of the performance potential of motorcycles.

marcus

Edited 7 June, 2014 by dieseldogg

[Anddenton]

Also a month ago a young man on a motor bike was killed in my local area at around 22:00, he was travelling over a slight crest and a left hand bend when he was faced with a van carrying out a u turn. He hit the van and died at the scene. The van was a police van doing a U turn driven by a female police officer.

I'm not saying the wpc wasn't in the wrong here but surely you should always go around a corner or over a crest at a speed that allows you time to stop should something such as for instance a stationary vehicle or slow moving tractor happens to be in your way whether you're on a bike or in a car?

[RainbowFire]

It's a good job you were there to know exactly what happened. Have you provided your details as a witness to the accident investigation?

 

They may have been responding to an ANPR activation, but we don't know what that was. It could have been anything from expired tax to "vehicle connected to a murder", and the appropriate response would vary.

 

I find it all depressingly predictable the way some people's reactions are to automatically assume the police were driving flat out in the most dangerous fashion, or gloat at someone else's misfortune.

 

 

Well, I think it's safe to assume that, given the state of the car, the railings and the distance the bike was knocked, the police vehicle was travelling with speed inappropriate to the road conditionst.

 

Or are you saying that amount of damage would have occured at 30mph?

 

 

The net result of this incident is:

1) one less ANPR interceptor on the road

2) one large mess to clear up

3) IIRC officers are usually relieved of duty whilst an investigation is on-going........so two less officers on the job

and

4) whoever triggered the ANPR got away

 

Not a bad 2 minutes work really.

[RainbowFire]

So how do you know all the incidents were the bikers fault? If you'd seen my accident you would have thought the same as I did not hit any other vehicle but crashed avoiding to do so. I also drive a car covering over 20k miles per year so drive quite a bit and yes I do see it from the car driver's point of view.

As I said previous having had an accident which meant I was off work for 6 weeks and now have limited movement in one wrist due to the action of a driver not bothering to look, having witnessed a car pulling out in front of another biker, having had numerous near misses whilst filtering through stationary or very slow traffic (perfectly legal) at what I would rate an acceptable speed (under 30mph) usually cause the driver's have been on the phone, doing something else in the car or just generally not looking and yes I use my full beam when filtering to try and make myself more visible. From your reply you sound like the type of driver that intentionally moves over to block bikers.

Due to cars becoming ever safer , people have less awareness. I got my motorbike licence before my car licence and my driving instructor commented how greater my awareness was. Anyway don't want to get into an argument. Everyone entitled to their own opinion.

 

The 99% of the incidents I have witnessed, the biker has been at fault, no question. Excessive speed and complete lack of respect for the rules of the road. The last one was Mr. Crotch-Rocket going between two lorries, Dutch and German. The result was one less bike on the road. The rules are there for your safety as much as they are everyone else's.

 

Please show me where there is a law permitting bikes to lane-splt. Also where RVLR has a different set of rules for bikes, allowing the use of main-beam to dazzle other drivers. Just because you think it's a great idea, doesn't make it legal.

 

You sound exactly like the kind of biker who ignores all the rules of the road, "because you're on a bike". However, I wouldn't move over to block you, I make sure I stay well away from people like you on the road, because you are a danger to yourself and everyone else on the around you. I'll make that assumption based on your post, like your, epically incorrect, one about me.

[marcusthehat]

Our famous, and justifibly so, Antrim Coast Road, is unusual in that it very closely follows the shoreline or cliff edge for much of its length.

Which allows for magnificent views.

It also attracts bikers in their droves, especially of a weekend.

There are places, more towards the Northern cliff based section, where the road is barely more than one car wide.

There are many small farm places and dwelling along this road as well, often with vehicle entry/exit points in completely blind locations.

A biker (and prob a local, from the local outcry) died somewhere near Cushendall very recently.

The Rds Service have been out and state that the topography does not allow for any better road alignment.

Which sounds entirely likely, being reasonably familar with this road.

SO, all any-one, regardless of "local knowledge" can do is proceed with extreme caution.

AND absolutly per a post above ALWAYS proceed at a speed that allows one to stop within range of ones forward visibility.

SIMPLES!

But unforutnately bikers out for a "blast"(as I have seen it described in writing by bikers) do not employ this simple survival stratgem.

And cough cough, btw!

A good blast fair clears the head of Saturday night's beer, of 05:00/06:00/07;00 of a Sunday morning, when, God willing, the roads should be empty.

Marcus

[Bbmac]

I made a comment because it was a Police car wrecked and a shame that another VRS has been written off.

 

xxxx xxx with your stupid remarks.  I pay enough out of my  taxes to lowlife and you moan at me, yeah right.     Yes I pay taxes & work very hard for my money, and since this is still a country with freedom of speech I will say what I like.

Edited 8 June, 2014 by damo
swearing removed

[Damo]

and since this is still a country with freedom of speech I will say what I like.

 

Fair enough

 

However, insult other members and try to bypass the swear filter again and you'll be making your freedom of speech on other forums

[Bbmac]

Sorry for putting swearing in my message like that, I am a member of other forums & this is the normal way, I did not mean to cause offence.

 

I do not come on here very often and made a comment about a Police car getting written off. I have plenty of friends who are in the Met Police, these offices work in the most deprived boroughs of London, but as somebody said earlier some of them should not be allowed to drive.

 

Who have I insulted?

Edited 8 June, 2014 by Bbmac

[Damo]

Sorry for putting swearing in my message like that, I am a member of other forums & this is the normal way, I did not mean to cause offence.

 

 

We try and be more civilised on here than other car forums, so just refrain in future 

 

Apology accepted

[Johntyboy]

I'm not saying the wpc wasn't in the wrong here but surely you should always go around a corner or over a crest at a speed that allows you time to stop should something such as for instance a stationary vehicle or slow moving tractor happens to be in your way whether you're on a bike or in a car?

 

Maybe so but it’s not a great example of good driving from the police in either of these incidents. Tragically its cost the life of a young man in Cumbria (Didn’t make regional or national news) and looks like its injured a number of people in London.

[RainbowFire]

+1

 

 

IF the PC driving the VRS in the original post's photos was going through a red light at speed, without any sirens, then it's not just a junction that has been driven through at speed, it's a pedestrian crossing as well. You can see that in the photo. All the information we have is that "eyewitnesses said the police car travelled through the red light" -- nothing about what speed he was doing as he did so. Yes the damage was extensive but how much speed did he pick up AFTER "safely" negotiating the red light?

 

I'm not going to make any judgement about the OP's post, simply because I wasn't there, I didn't see it and I, like everyone else except those who WERE there, don't know all the facts.

 

But Anddenton's point highlighted above is not just about safe and forward-thinking driving -- it is pure common sense.

 

Mike

 

I would humbly submit that you could only claim to have safely negotiated the red light once you were completely clear of the intersection. A red one way usually means there's a green another. To have accelerated to such a speed to have done that much damage and throw the bike 50m down the road, the car would have been accelerating at a rate that would indeed have made Skoda very proud.