Had the car just over 2 weeks, and it won't start this morning.

It tries to turn over, but is not starting. No warning lights. Everything seems normal.

Does anyone have any ideas?

I have the AA enroute but just want to have some ideas beforehand.

Car was driving well yesterday.

A couple days ago it did start and there was more vibration than normal coming from engine bay, but this cleared. Its only done it the once. Maybe its related?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Andy

could be a failed coilpack or possibly multiple ones? I had an electrical clip snap on one of mine and as i went over a pop hole it was only firing on 3 cylinders, the car was shaking like mad and spluttering on

Edited 11 June, 201412 yr by banzaiman

If Andy's car description is accurate, I'm 200% certain the issue is NOT coilpacks!

You didn't say your engine. Is it a tsi with timing chain?

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

Could it be battery related? Does it turn over weakly?

I would guess, from prior experience with other diesels, that it could be due to the fuel pump or perhaps a collapsed or blocked fuel filter, assuming it is a 140 PD Tdi, as shown in your profile.. When was it last serviced? 

 

You also haven't stated how much fuel is in the tank? Am not sure about the pump on the Octavia but in-tank pumps can have problems when fuel falls below 1/4 of a tank, if they are on their way out.

 

I would guess that the AA is probably there by now and you have your answer, but it would be nice if you could let us know. Especially other 2.0 PD owners, such as myself, in case the same happens to us. If they can't diagnose then a list of what they checked would also be helpful.

HI All,

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

I can confirm that the car is as in my profile thingy.

 

The 2 litre 140bhp PD TDI.

 

The AA man didnt really do much tbh, apart from play with the hoses going into/out of the fuel filter. I say play, I mean, slightly touch. When doing so, he said to try again, and it burst into life.

 

Car is running perfectly again.

 

He said that there is a possibility that a tiny amount of air is getting into the fuel system around the filter. (One of those 4 hoses).

 

I told him that a few days ago, when the car started, it did so, but lumpy. Almost like misfiring.

 

He said that there was air in it then too, but was enough fuel for the car to start. This time, it was the other way round, with too much air, and not enough fuel.

 

Car was last serviced about 7k ago (Last November)

 

I have about 1/4 tank of fuel. It was 1/2 tank if not more when it started funny the other day.

 

I intend to have the car fully serviced very soon by a local VW specialist garage. (Cheaper than main dealer, but still uses genuine parts).

 

None of the small hoses look worn or corroded in any way.

 

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Thanks to all,

 

Andy

I would certainly try to ascertain when the fuel filter was last changed. It has quite a long interval and they are a bit of a pain to replace on the 2.0 PD as there are three completely different sizes of filter fitted at the factory

seemingly with no rhyme or reason. So you have to measure the housing to guestimate what filter needs ordered......as a consequence if a garage can get away with not replacing it, they will.

 

There could well be a problem with a pump/injector, but replacing the fuel filter is the first step to rule it out....and it's cheap to do. What's the total mileage on the car?

I did ask in a thread when I first got mine which filter I should buy http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/286921-which-fuel-filter/?p=3401334

 

Mine is a 55 plate and is just on the crossover but I know from using this page http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/fuel-filter-replacement-on-2005-2006-vw-jetta-tdi-pumpe-duse-engine/ that mine needs the one with the Olympic rings seal.

 

I guess you could replace the clips with new hose clips. Be careful not to use jubilee clips as they are not designed to be air/liquid tight, they actually have a gap near the worm gear. I found this out when I bought the wrong ones to fit to a new section of intercooler pipe. So make sure they are hose clips and not jubilee to avoid that possibility of air getting in. The filter could have been replaced but the seal might not be properly seated, leaving air to get in, or you could have a tiny hole in one of the pipes. Am not sure how you check if/which of any of these is your problem.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris 

Edited 11 June, 201412 yr by kissifer

I would certainly try to ascertain when the fuel filter was last changed. It has quite a long interval and they are a bit of a pain to replace on the 2.0 PD as there are three completely different sizes of filter fitted at the factory

seemingly with no rhyme or reason. So you have to measure the housing to guestimate what filter needs ordered......as a consequence if a garage can get away with not replacing it, they will.

 

There could well be a problem with a pump/injector, but replacing the fuel filter is the first step to rule it out....and it's cheap to do. What's the total mileage on the car?

I will have a look at the size of mine...

 

Its done 120k miles. Always been serviced about every 6-9 months at main dealers. It had the big service about a year ago where the belts etc were done too.

I did ask in a thread when I first got mine which filter I should buy http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/286921-which-fuel-filter/?p=3401334

 

Mine is a 55 plate and is just on the crossover but I know from using this page http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/fuel-filter-replacement-on-2005-2006-vw-jetta-tdi-pumpe-duse-engine/ that mine needs the one with the Olympic rings seal.

 

I guess you could replace the clips with new hose clips. Be careful not to use jubilee clips as they are not designed to be air/liquid tight, they actually have a gap near the worm gear. I found this out when I bought the wrong ones to fit to a new section of intercooler pipe. So make sure they are hose clips and not jubilee to avoid that possibility of air getting in. The filter could have been replaced but the seal might not be properly seated, leaving air to get in, or you could have a tiny hole in one of the pipes. Am not sure how you check if/which of any of these is your problem.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris 

Thanks Chris.

 

This is a great help. Definitely something I will be changing in the coming days.

 

Andy

Blank monkey look in Halfords?....surely not

3C0 127 400 C is the part number for the complete UFI metal filter housing, for just the corresponding replacement element the part number is 3C0 127 434.

ISTR that's the same one my PD140 uses and the only one of the VAG diesel filters that Halfords don't stock. In the end I got a genuine VAG one online for about half what Halfords would have charged for a pattern part.

After getting under the bonnet (again), I have this fuel filter and housing. (Quoted this from the link on this forum 'kissifer' sent me). http://www.briskoda....lter/?p=3401334

 

Will get to work to replace it soon.

Edited 11 June, 201412 yr by abys

Be very careful with the filter seals and thoroughly check for leaks after a lengthy test drive.  I've seen numerous engines wrecked by fuel leaking onto the auxiliary belt and the remains of the belt getting caught in the timing belt.

Interesting that the op mentions lumpy running just after starting. Mine occasionally does this but only ever in warm weather, with a slightly warm engine, with the car parked facing uphill on my drive. As long as those three conditions are never met together then it starts and runs perfectly every time !

I think with mine its a tiny air leak somewhere in the fuel system, but two different main dealers have looked at it in the past and could find nothing wrong with it.

Have just looked at the pics on the myturbodiesel site again and they have labeled the pipes, so it must be the one with the green arrow that is causing your problem. Either that pipe or the seal to the filter housing lid. Just thought it might narrow things down a little for you.

Have just looked at the pics on the myturbodiesel site again and they have labeled the pipes, so it must be the one with the green arrow that is causing your problem. Either that pipe or the seal to the filter housing lid. Just thought it might narrow things down a little for you.

Mine looks like this one... (Pic taken from the turbo diesel website) Seems it was the one used for most of the later cars (CR engines)

 

 

So would it be the pipe at the 3 o clock position potentially caused yesterdays problem?

 

I have the car booked in for a longlife service on Wednesday at a VW specialist garage in Bristol. (Not a dealer)

 

I have asked them to make sure the fuel filter is replaced as part of that. I will also make sure they renew all the seals in the canister too.

 

Andy

Car took 2 attempts to start again today. It had not moved since Saturday evening 11pm.

 

For the first couple seconds after starting, it was all lumpy, but then was fine...

 

Definitely sounds like its starving of fuel... (Over 3/4 tank)

 

Roll on Wednesday when its getting its full longlife service.

 

The dash came up with 800 miles or 149 days to next service today! 

Edited 16 June, 201412 yr by abys

People mentioning a bad seal on the fuel filter housing letting air in  - trust me if this is not sealed fuel will be coming out before air is getting in! (I have foudn this out when changing a fuel filter on this engine).

 

You have said the filter is the same as the later CR engines, I though the fuel filter on them was fairly different as the fuel pump is also completely different (i.e. you cant prime the filter with 2 x ignition key turns - you need to fill it full of fuel after a filter change or it wont start).

You have said the filter is the same as the later CR engines, I though the fuel filter on them was fairly different as the fuel pump is also completely different (i.e. you cant prime the filter with 2 x ignition key turns - you need to fill it full of fuel after a filter change or it wont start).

AFAIK he's correct, the same filter is used on CR engines. Although the lack of self-priming on CR engines can be a problem for DIY mechanics it isn't for dealers (or anyone with VCDS) as there is a way of making the lift pump run from within the software to prime a newly fitted filter, avoiding the need to fill it manually with diesel.

Doing some research, it seems possible that it could be the pump in the fuel tank giving low pressure...

 

IF this is the case, would I get any warning symbols, or engine codes? (I have none)

 

I am guessing this is an expensive job also...

 

Even though I bought the car with no warranty, do I have any recourse to the seller? He was an independent dealer.

 

Thanks all,

 

Andy

Do you get a slight humming sound from under the back seat which lasts for 1 second after the ignition key is switched to the glowplug position? You should do, as that's the sound the lift pump makes as it primes the system. It seems very rare for the in-tank lift pumps to fail on these, although not totally unheard of.

 

A more common failure on the early 2.0s was the mechanical 'tandem pump' on the end of the camshaft, although that seemed to be cured on later 2.0 PDs.

 

Unfortunately PD's don't monitor fuel pressure like a CR engine would, so low fuel pressure often won't flag up any warning lights or fault codes on a PD.

Do you get a slight humming sound from under the back seat which lasts for 1 second after the ignition key is switched to the glowplug position? You should do, as that's the sound the lift pump makes as it primes the system. It seems very rare for the in-tank lift pumps to fail on these, although not totally unheard of.

 

A more common failure on the early 2.0s was the mechanical 'tandem pump' on the end of the camshaft, although that seemed to be cured on later 2.0 PDs.

 

Unfortunately PD's don't monitor fuel pressure like a CR engine would, so low fuel pressure often won't flag up any warning lights or fault codes on a PD.

I am getting the humming sound, yes.

I am guessing I have a later PD as the CR engines came in not long after mine.

If the tandem pump goes, could that give the symptoms I am experiencing when starting from cold in the mornings?

I am guessing I have a later PD as the CR engines came in not long after mine.

 

It'll be a PD for sure. CR engines started to filter in from summer 2010 and were mandatory from September 2010. 

If the tandem pump goes, could that give the symptoms I am experiencing when starting from cold in the mornings?

As above yours will definitely be a PD.

Yes a failing tandem pump can cause poor starting. The tandem pump is a combined fuel & vacuum pump and runs at a higher pressure than the in-tank lift pump. They can leak fuel/air, and can also leak internally causing oil and fuel to mix. As far as I know the usual way to test one is to attach a fuel pressure gauge to the pump and measure the output with the engine running.

The garage report nothing wrong with fuel system etc.

 

They are saying the Duel Mass Flywheel (DMF) is wearing out. Can this cause poor starting when cold?