Just been over to see how the exhaust development work is going on my vRS.

More info on that here

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/309542-scorpion-exhausts-are-looking-for-a-mk3-vrs-tsi/?hl=%2Bscorpion#entry3767354

As part of the development they do Dyno runs before and after fitting the new exhaust. They had the car on the Dyno last week before taking the OEM exhaust off and the figure was 246.8 BHP! The engineers working on the car asked if it was "moded" at all, which it isn't. They said they use two Dyno people and the one they've done my car on is the more "conservative" one! They did say that there is a wide tolerance on the VW engines they've seen, but this is one of the highest. It is running on Shell nitro but it can't be making 30BHP difference.

Anyone had there vRS Dyno'd for comparison?

Dyno figures on standard cars are meaningless, they're probably the least accurate piece of equipment known to man. The only thing they're good for is a rough before and after to get an estimate of the power increase after any mods.

So Dyno's only work on modified cars then?

So Dyno's only work on modified cars then?

They're a tuning aid and not good for accurate BHP measuring, even the place you used said they use two and one is more conservative..... That says it all.

246bhp at the wheels, or 246 using some voodoo to calculate the power from the flywheel?

 

I think what Neily is trying to imply is that that dyno's vary wildly, and that really the only way to use them is to do before and after on the same machine to know what percentage improvement you've got... and really you should do several runs of each and take an average.

When I was running tuned Subarus results varied quite a lot from day to day and dyno to dyno. My ~320bhp STI IV would push anything between 305 & 336bhp (best run) with the same mods (decat, free flow filter, remap, 100+ RON). As said above, dynos are best for comparing before and after mods on the same day. In my opinion dynos are often calibrated to over-read by 5-10%. Happy customers with big numbers are more likely to come back for more, and everyone likes to be told they got more than average.

Edited 13 June, 201411 yr by Orville

Wow thanks all for the lessons in Dyno's. Guess I learnt nothing when my Saab turbo with water injection was tuned and set up. Must have forgot everything I learnt from Andy Rouse, BTCC legend, when he set up my TVR 390SE with his modified V8 engine!

The only reason I posted was to let TSI owners know how the exhaust was progressing!

217 to 246 is a big jump that's why I asked the question in my post. Anyone had it done?

Anyone care to reply rather than tell the forum how much they know or how wrong they think people are!

246bhp at the wheels, or 246 using some voodoo to calculate the power from the flywheel?

Where is the 217 measured from by Skoda in the brochure?

Anyone care to reply rather than tell the forum how much they know or how wrong they think people are!

No need to get funny.....

Where is the 217 measured from by Skoda in the brochure?

Flywheel.

Anyone care to reply rather than tell the forum how much they know or how wrong they think people are!

Well it made me smile :)

Unfortunately, that's a true reflection of the majority of posts on a forum.

Well, it does seem like a larger figure than you would expect, but vag units have shown greater than quoted outputs on various dyno plots that have been on threads in the past. Its handy as an indication and baseline for the upcoming exhaust, though, you obviously couldn't have the 2 readings for that done on the same day, as the exhaust takes time to be fabbed up, as it is their first one.

Yes, dynos can be a bit of a lottery, but a few up and down the country have reputations for accuracy, from what I have seen.

I would be interested in seeing the plot, if available.

It could well be a strong output , above quoted figures. The comparison dyno run may give a clue, as the Milltek comparison runs are available to compare the rough gains from their system. Used as a guide, they are very useful.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing the exhaust!

Thanks for posting Banksie, I'm interested.

 

I've been running my TSI on Tesco 99 since I bought it and I have to say, after coming from modded MK5 GTI's (280bhp and 300bhp) and a modded Clios RS with turbo kicking out over 250bhp, I have to say the TSI feels as quick if not quicker in stock.

 

I've done timed runs using some pretty accurate recording gear that has sen my car achieve a best sprint time of 5.6 to 60 and on 217bhp, that's too quick.

 

I've always thought the VRS TSI had more power and your run seems to confirm my thoughts on this that Skoda put them out of the factory with more BHP than 217.

 

I reckon they come out with at least 230bhp and once run on the higher octane, they would achieve 235-240bhp,...

 

Cracking result for yours mate, please, please keep us posted on progress. I'm keeping the stock exhaust and just going stage 1 tune.

I was also curious about this, as official acceleration figure for combi dsg is 7.1. But every time i tried to time it i was getting much better results, i know that speedo usually is off by few km \h, i have checked with gps and it is off by as little as 5km\h but still times i get very optimistic, i have even seen a dash below 6. Here is one video, this is on straight road with good surface. Pretty bad starts as there was pretty bad wheel spin between 1st and second. I managed to do batter starts. So does this look like 7 seconds?

 

 

 

I am even not sure anymore if i should remap the car, may be it will make it worst:)

Looking forward to seeing and hearing the exhaust!

Will keep you updated, probably next week.

I think Scorpion will be putting something on YouTube as well.

Oh and Marketing Director was saying he might do a discount for a group buy for members - watch this space!

Edited 14 June, 201411 yr by banksie

Wow thanks all for the lessons in Dyno's. Guess I learnt nothing when my Saab turbo with water injection was tuned and set up. Must have forgot everything I learnt from Andy Rouse, BTCC legend, when he set up my TVR 390SE with his modified V8 engine!

I don't think that anyone was trying to rub you up the wrong way. Chill.

 

The only reason I posted was to let TSI owners know how the exhaust was progressing!

The "247 BHP on a standard VRS" title does not really indicate exhaust progrees. It reads more like a statement VRS power.

 

217 to 246 is a big jump that's why I asked the question in my post. Anyone had it done?

Only on other cars, which is why I said dynos are imprecise, or often deliberately calibrated (or programmed) to read high. My Impreza showed +/- 30bhp on different rolling roads and on different days. 247bhp from a stock VRS is likely some distance from accurate. My VRS feels slower than my first UK Impreza which had slightly less bhp and much less torque.

 

Anyone care to reply rather than tell the forum how much they know or how wrong they think people are!

I think most people are only trying to help.

 

Where is the 217 measured from by Skoda in the brochure?

Manufacturers always measure at the flywheel, otherwise manual, auto, FWD, 4WD transmission layouts would all quote different figires. Perhaps Andy Rouse, BTCC legend forgot to mention that?

 

 

 

I will post no more within this thread. My original post was meant to help but appears to have been taken the wrong way. I have countered, but will encourage no further argument.

Edited 14 June, 201411 yr by Orville

 

I will post no more within this thread. My original post was meant to help but appears to have been taken the wrong way. I have countered, but will encourage no further argument.

 

Post away. I'm sure some folks are very interested.

 

Every time something like this is posted it attracts debate.  Personally, if I needed or wanted a fast and powerful car I wouldn't have bought a Skoda VRS.   I bought my car because I wanted it and not because I wanted what it could be if I trusted others to adjust the Skoda engineers' balance of reliability, performance, economy and longevity.

KiDr that does does look a fair bit shorter time than the stated. Have you timed it?

KiDr that does does look a fair bit shorter time than the stated. Have you timed it?

yes i did, but i do not have any processional equipment. I have used few programs for windows phone that use gps and accelerometer. I get different times, but most are below 7, best i have seen 5.77, but i guess this might have been not very accurate:) If i use stopwatch with a few videos i have, i get something in the range of 6.3-6.8. Which is still quite fast.

Autoexpress timed the combi TSI VRS DSG at 6.4 and I believe Evo have had 5.8 out of the VRS they tested, so not too shabby and may explain the results you're getting.

 

With the right launch, this engine can easily achieve a 6 sec sprint, however what I like best about this engine is the diesel like grunt and torque for overtaking, it just feels like it would just keep on pulling and pulling,.....until you lose your licence of course 

 

I have to say that with the times I'm seeing, my car has to have more than the quoted 217 bhp and whilst I appreciate VW Group are always a little conservative, my car is performing as well as a car on 240+ bhp, and yes I've had many to compare it against.

 

Couple this to my best return of 46.7mpg on a tank of fuel (when I can drive sensibly without enjoying the car too much) and I'm a happy bunny.

Autoexpress timed the combi TSI VRS DSG at 6.4 and I believe Evo have had 5.8 out of the VRS they tested, so not too shabby and may explain the results you're getting.

 

With the right launch, this engine can easily achieve a 6 sec sprint, however what I like best about this engine is the diesel like grunt and torque for overtaking, it just feels like it would just keep on pulling and pulling,.....until you lose your licence of course 

 

I have to say that with the times I'm seeing, my car has to have more than the quoted 217 bhp and whilst I appreciate VW Group are always a little conservative, my car is performing as well as a car on 240+ bhp, and yes I've had many to compare it against.

 

Couple this to my best return of 46.7mpg on a tank of fuel (when I can drive sensibly without enjoying the car too much) and I'm a happy bunny.

Yeah but i guess those measurements are for 0-60mph? because my times are for 0-100km\h, which is as you know around 62mph. And octy goes to third gear at around 60, i guess you reach 60 much faster as it needs to shift to reach 62. Just my observations.

I've heard the same that some "adjusted flywheel figures" can be on the side of making a customer feel happier although it seems VAG engines do give out more than the brochures - normally 5-10% (sometimes more) dependant on the weather, freshness of fuel, position of the moon....  Think on the other side of the fence though - if the manufacturer quotes 200bhp and you only get 180-190, you'd be straight down the dealer asking them to find out what's wrong..

 

The best use of a dyno is, as has been said, as a comparative tool although a mobile dyno I've been on seemed to give pretty accurate results - I expected 200-ish (book value is allegedly 210 but in a different installation) from my engine and got 212 (slightly smaller exhaust pipes but no cats as originally fitted); someone else got almost 220 from his (which was a very pleasant surprise), confirmed by a totally different dyno a few weeks later within a couple of bhp so unless they are all reading high, it was about right.  The lads who own and run it did give the standard speech about "no point giving bull numbers - it only comes back to bite", but they are true to their word, it seems.

I've heard the same that some "adjusted flywheel figures" can be on the side of making a customer feel happier although it seems VAG engines do give out more than the brochures - normally 5-10% (sometimes more) dependant on the weather, freshness of fuel, position of the moon....  Think on the other side of the fence though - if the manufacturer quotes 200bhp and you only get 180-190, you'd be straight down the dealer asking them to find out what's wrong..

 

The best use of a dyno is, as has been said, as a comparative tool although a mobile dyno I've been on seemed to give pretty accurate results - I expected 200-ish (book value is allegedly 210 but in a different installation) from my engine and got 212 (slightly smaller exhaust pipes but no cats as originally fitted); someone else got almost 220 from his (which was a very pleasant surprise), confirmed by a totally different dyno a few weeks later within a couple of bhp so unless they are all reading high, it was about right.  The lads who own and run it did give the standard speech about "no point giving bull numbers - it only comes back to bite", but they are true to their word, it seems.

 

I think you are wasting your time.

 

The OP isn't interested in hearing things like that, he's well up on cars, dynos and has been taught by Andy Rouse the BTCC ledgend. 

He's also had a TVR.

He's only interested in confirming how much more powerful his Octy is over it's claimed factory output and if any other ones have achieved the same type of figures.

 

Wether it's accurate or not is irrelevent.

I think you are wasting your time.

 

He's also had a TVR.

 

Wether it's accurate or not is irrelevent.

I think you might be right

I think you are wasting your time.

 

The OP isn't interested in hearing things like that, he's well up on cars, dynos and has been taught by Andy Rouse the BTCC ledgend. 

He's also had a TVR.

He's only interested in confirming how much more powerful his Octy is over it's claimed factory output and if any other ones have achieved the same type of figures.

 

Wether it's accurate or not is irrelevent.

I think you might be right

  

Mmh, the intention was to provide some information about a new model of car that people might find interesting! It was also intended to make people aware of the exhaust development and to hopefully save people some money if they were interested in purchasing one.

But this thread has degenerated into the way life seems to be now! I tend to find its much more satisfying to find out how much people know and then continue with the discussion, rather than telling them what they already know and them thinking "if you know it all, I won't discuss further"! One it makes for a more interesting discussion and two they don't think your a K**B!

Shame, the exhaust does sound very interesting, and the dyno element too, for rough comparison.

Just been over to see how the exhaust development work is going on my vRS.

More info on that here

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/309542-scorpion-exhausts-are-looking-for-a-mk3-vrs-tsi/?hl=%2Bscorpion#entry3767354

As part of the development they do Dyno runs before and after fitting the new exhaust. They had the car on the Dyno last week before taking the OEM exhaust off and the figure was 246.8 BHP! The engineers working on the car asked if it was "moded" at all, which it isn't. They said they use two Dyno people and the one they've done my car on is the more "conservative" one! They did say that there is a wide tolerance on the VW engines they've seen, but this is one of the highest. It is running on Shell nitro but it can't be making 30BHP difference.

Anyone had there vRS Dyno'd for comparison?

Banksie, as said before, there are many that are interested, me included.

 

Out of interest, how much torque did the car make on your runs, stock I believe is 258flbt, would be good if the car was also pulling 280flbt with that 246bhp!!