Europe tour on motorcycle

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

I know one or two of you have ridden in Europe before so I thought I'd ask here. Me, my dad and a mate or two are thinking about a road trip next year, ride some nice roads, see some nice places. We have a few places in mind, North Italy, Lake Como, Monaco, Pyrenees being the main ones at the moment.

 

Firstly, does anyone have anything to add that's worth getting in? Secondly, does anyone have a rough idea what kinda miles/riding hours we wanna be looking at doing each day? As much as it's a riding holiday we'll want to stop and see bits along the way. Any other tips or pointers for the planning would be helpful, it's not going to happen until next year but want to start the planning sooner rather than later. 

 

Thanks in advance! 

[fabiamk2SE]

How many miles youll do each day depends on how many places you want to see, the overall distance and the length of time ypuve got.

What bikes are you going on? How long can you usually ride without getting aches and pains?

200-300 miles should be a reasonable amount.

My dads ridden back from Saltsburg in a day last year. That was 800miles on a 1200gs adventure and a well trained touring bum. I couldnt manage anything more than about 250 miles on my old SV before i got bumache though. It all depends .

[mender]

What bikes?

 

Setting up a theme, eg food, museums, factory visits etc to base the tour on works well

 

Sounds ace-enjoy!

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

It's so far ahead we can plan it from scratch. Initially we was thinking 4 days but now I've have looked into things a bit closer I think we'll need a bit more than that. Might just do it over a week and allow for a rest day mid way through. 

 

My dad has a Bandit 12, my mate has Fireblade & I'll have something newer by then, possibly a GSX1400 or XJR1300. I haddnt thought of factory tours, good shout I'll look into it. 

 

Cheers

[mender]

Your day mileage will depend on how comfortable you get on your bike, eg wind blast, weight on bum and wrists, etc

 

On my R1200RT BMW 500 miles a day was no issue, on my Bandit 1200 my arms would get tired at 250 miles-plus the constant tank refuel was irritating.

 

Worth getting a small screen or fairing if you have not got one.

 

I found that having a rough idea of what you wanted to do, a laptop and internet to find the next night's stay if needed and a free mind works best as you come across people and stuff to do on the way that can be lost by a rigid agenda-also the weather can make you want to stop in an area for a while or not do loads of miles depending on what weather it is.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Hummmm, see I was thinking about booking up before we left? Is decent accommodation going to be easy to find en route turning up on the day/evening? 

[mender]

Hummmm, see I was thinking about booking up before we left? Is decent accommodation going to be easy to find en route turning up on the day/evening? 

Depends on the season and what's going on in the area at the time.  We'd often drop on somewhere really nice and use that as a base for a few days before moving on to whatever we could find in the area we wanted to go to, via internet.

 

Some of your group may be uncomfortable "winging it" so you may have to book, plus you can choose secure parking for the bikes if you are worried.

[fabiamk2SE]

Some of your group may be uncomfortable "winging it" so you may have to book, plus you can choose secure parking for the bikes if you are worried.

Yup. I would be.

Dad came back to his GS adventure this year to find someone (well. Most likely more than one to move a fully loaded GS) had tried to drag it away. Luckily it was chained to his mates ducati multistrada.

They did buckle a pannier abit though n broke a lock cover.

I think bikes on English plates are an easy target for these people, as they'll be hard to trace etc etc.

So watch out.

[cnc]

Myself and the wife did the Ducati and Ferrari museum on the same day. They are fairly close together, although you do need to book the Ducati tour online in advance, only a few Euros each and there is a public car park almost opposite. The Ferrari museum has parking right outside, and they now do factory and test track tours as well. Well worth a visit if you like that sort of thing.

Less than one hours drive from one to the other so easily to do both, one am one pm.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Yeah, we were going to take a couple of locks but planned to use places with decent parking, I've been looking on a website for bike friendly accommodation that shows if they have secure parking etc. We're all new to Euro riding so I think planning it a little for our first trip will be a safe bet. 

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Myself and the wife did the Ducati and Ferrari museum on the same day. They are fairly close together, although you do need to book the Ducati tour online in advance, only a few Euros each and there is a public car park almost opposite. The Ferrari museum has parking right outside, and they now do factory and test track tours as well. Well worth a visit if you like that sort of thing.

Less than one hours drive from one to the other so easily to do both, one am one pm.

 

Yes! That sounds right up out street, will add to the list. Thank you

[jjc]

Check out www.tyretotravel.com very good bit of software to help with the route planning

 

John

[littleade]

Ultimately you'll probably be limited by the person with the most uncomfortable bike. The key will probably be to ride no more than he's comfortable to do-it is a holiday afterall, not a marathon and mistakes are more likely towards the end of the ride each day, which would spoil the holiday. Try searching for 'great motorcycling rides' which is a program I've seen on sky. It's a bit cheesy but he did some rides through central europe which might be of interest. Might be worth thinking about some mobile comms so you can keep in touch on the go to help prevent getting split up. Go with the flow and enjoy.

[mender]

As it is the first time doing it, sounds like  you'd be best organising secure stop overs before you leave, with an itinerary based on a theme, museums or factory visits etc.

 

As said, you'll be limited by the slowest/weakest rider on the most uncomfortable bike and how prepared they are to take risks with accommodation etc.

 

If you're buying a new bike and plan to tour regularly, choose a bike that fits the brief and give maximum enjoyment, range and luggage.

I'd buy a late R1150RT with luggage, nav and heated grips, if poss the stereo and top box options too over any naked bike.  Not only is it fun to throw about, it is built for this type of use and has conveniences such passport lockers, long range tanks, shaft drive for zero maintenance and jet washability, power sockets for intercoms, charging phones etc too.

A decent RT will lose no money if bought well, used for a tour and resold well.  The later 1200 and 1250 are lighter and more jap in their feel, but lose the hewn from granite feel and reliability-plus they cost loads more.

 

I've had 22 bikes and nothing beats a BMW for touring.  You'll soon tire of an XJR on long runs, but depends on distance and speed.  I loved my Bandit 1200 (naked) but not for long trips!

[grr666]

One of you should probably have a decent nav unit. 

I've just bought a Garmin Zumo 660 and it was eye wateringly expensive

at £430 but having just used it to tour Scotland it's a decent bit of kit.

'Free' lifetime map and camera updates but I should hope so at that price.  

(Toured Scotland in the car but it comes with car mounts and cigar lighter charger

as well as a hard wired kit for the bike) Next time we go there me and the Mrs 

are probably going to run a car and a bike up there so she can carry all the luggage

and kit in the car and I'll follow on with the bike. There were so many roads I wished

I had the bike for while we were away. Particularly in and around Glencoe.   

Maybe a UK tour is a better plan for a warm up to touring. We have some great 

scenery and roads here in parts of the UK. Then after that stretch it out and go further. 

This way it keeps the daily distances a bit more realistic for someone new to touring.

I think that's what I'll be doing, it makes for a less steep learning curve

I just did it in the Fiat and still racked up nearly 1400 miles in a week. 

It would have been much harder work doing that same mileage on a bike,

and it was quite gruelling at times even in the relative comfort of a car. 

That's still a 200 mile a day average and we didn't really travel beyond

a local day trip on two of the days in the week. 

 

Also have you considered hiring a bigger bike? There's a place near me that hires

dirty great Harley tourers for about £75 a day if you have it for a week. 

I'm certainly considering hiring one for a tour with the wife. 

[Beckz0308]

Not quite the same, but my parents have just done this in their BMW car....

Some things they learnt which may be applicable to you:

They went June 21st - July 5th - out of school holidays, plenty of hotel rooms etc....

They took the ferry from Dover to Dunkirk with a 48 hour 'flexi ticket' so they were not rushing to get back to their designated ferry time. 

They booked hotels in places they knew they wanted to stop (Bruges/Lake Como/Rhine Gorge) and then used European chain hotels for the rest of the trip.

Ibis hotels - pick up a European book at any UK hotel - you can turn up there on the day, always plenty of rooms.

Get a decent Sat Nav!

Lake Como was 'not what they expected' and quite commercial. They stayed 5 days there, but ran out of things to see after 2!

Switzerland is expensive - if you are planning on heading there you need a 'Vignette' to drive on the roads in any motor vehicle, which can be purchased at the boarder, don't bother buying one beforehand.

Double the amount of Euros you were thinking of taking!

Make a stop in Zermatt and take a cable car up Matterhorn to the ice palace - incredible experience.

 

Not much help on the bike front, but may be helpful to you.

[nickguzzi]

Another factor in the equation is does the group want to do the motorway thing or some alternative?

I just pick up the map and look for squiggly bits. The mileage doesn't matter. Getting furthest from UK doesn't matter. Having a great time riding is what its all about. For me its the journey, not the destination.

Having a plan with bookings is fine. What happens once the schedule slips?

I hate riding in "groups" There are only couple of people I like riding out with. Lots of milling about, fllings off, braking downs. Some "person" who wants wants to party all night, then a lay in, so waiting waiting. NAH. Won't eat the food, or tries to chat up the Italian chef's daughter (dad has big knives!). Never, ever go with someone who is faddy about food. You will end up eating ****. After walking about for hours. "This one" - "Nah". "This one" - "Nah". etc until you all agree that the first one was best, but is now shut. And the next. etc.

I could link headcam vids of all the milling and faffing and waiting, but there are lots on ytube.

Blatting about in Europe is great. Stick to the country roads, the smaller the better. You may even have to go slower, blimey may even see stuff! Could even use less fuel. Have more cash for other stuff.

Hotels are where tourists/travellers are. Like the common thief. There are chain hotels about, like a rash in France. They provide acceptable accommodation, in and out, no messing. Most have a hole in the wall entry system for late arrivals - just pop your card in and it gives you a room code - sleeps 3. Places like Etape have locking car parks. Lots of the chain hotels are out in industrial/commercial estates - too far for the scum to walk usually.

These are appearing now in Germany too. Not so much in Italy. There there is Agritourismo. This started out as farmhouse B&B. My recent usage has found it is a bit more up market, purpose built accommodation.

I would say the biggest danger is trying to do too much, Having over optimistic expectations about what you can fit in. If you book hotels on that basis, it can all become a bit of a slog.

Places to go:

Mulhouse, French National Railway Museum and nearby French National Museum of Automobiles aka the Schlumf Museum. Biggest collection of Bugatties in the world. Lots of other stuff there too now.

Stuttgart, Daimler Benz and Porsche.

Russelsheim up near Frankfurt, go see Opels bing made, neat little museum too.

Ladenburg, tiny museum in the original building where the very first car in the world was built.

Sinnsheim, Huge collection of all things with engines, a do not miss in my book.

Ingolstadt, the Audi place.

Munich, BMW, their place.

Ducati, Bologna

Ferrari, Modena

Mandello de Lario, Guzzi factory and museum. One of the most innovative manufacturers, singles (which Norton were forced to copy) twins both inline and V in 90 and 120 degree layouts, triples and fours and of course the V8, a 500cc jewel like machine so far in advance of anything else.

The building itself is a treat, although Piaggio knocked the wind tunnel down. Right on the side of Lake Como, so a decent destination in itself.

Down through France you could do the military history bit. Follow the Front Line from Ypres and Paschendael down to Thiepval for the Somme memorials.

Near the channel, Dunkirkque, the beaches and a memorial, but that maybe of interest to those who had relatives there.

Etape, notorious at the time. A staging post for those going up the line. And also the largest field hospital in France. So given the medical expertise of the time, its no surprise it also has one of the largest war graves.

Tyne Cot, largest CWWGC in the world, not far from Langemark, the German war grave for the dead from Paschendael

The contrast is stark, but the German style of war grave is the same as a typical domestic cemetery.

Vimy Ridge, Monument to the Candian Divisions. The untouched trenches - complete with uxbs - cover the tunnels built to disguise the concentrations for the attack in April 1917. Tours by Canadian students.

Arras, the historic town squares, twice destroyed by German shelling and twice rebuilt. Find your way to the Citadelle de Vauban and the CWWGC cemetery. Follow the path round to Le Mur des Fusillés. Its inside the fortress and is where members of the Resistance were murdered by the gestapo. There is a plaque mounted on the wall to each of the dead.

Peronne, large museum in the old Vauban fort. One of the best museums of the Premier Geurre Mondial.

Two battlefields not overly represented in British accounts of WW1, are the battles for the Chemin des Dames not far from Laon and the slightly better known Verdun - an excellent ride round and visit the small and hellish forts fought over, won and lost and won again. Nearly 1/2 a million men on each side perished.

Various bits of the Maginot line, try Ouvrage Hackenberg, or the pretty much complete Vauban fort at Neuf Brisach.

Most of the military bits are much better if you at least have some background context. Like who was Vauban?

The CWWGC has on its site, lists of all the fallen and where they are buried, if known. You could check out if you have any relatives "out there".

Loads of other things to focus your tour on. I love markets, so different from here. Vinyards, once away from the "posh" areas, they are very welcoming, and if you can understad, will help along your understanding oeneologically speaking.

Restaurants, this always is a difficulty. I mentioned the problems with people who won't eat "foreign", does my head in. No doubt they'll be the snails and frogs legs brigade to chime in soon. For them, there are the universal burger or pizza places everywhere, except where there aren't. Which may be smaller places. Or on certain nights or bank holidays or saints days. Whatever, you are abroard and things are different, get used to it. No, its not like here.

Anyway, restaurants for people who like food and can live with a menu in foreign and don't need a photograph.

In France, I have found after many years trying, the best value food can be got from restaurants in the Michelin guide. Maybe not 2* and 3* but the 1* and the recommended ones. They all have a "menu" (this really means a fixed price meal, choosing from the items listed. The alternative is "a la carte" - mix and matching exactly what you want from what they offer. Usually much more expensive).

I have maybe a dozen restaurants I will go to, even make a divesion for. They all offer a menu between €20 - €30. That will be an amuse bouche, a little nibble to liven up your taste buds. Then a starter, choosing off the list, ditto main and pud. Usually cheese is an either or, or an add on. Coffee is extra usually as are drinks. With the crack dowwn on drink driving, and a lower allowable level, it has become accepted that you won't automatically have booze. Most places wine by the glass. Or beer.

All tips and taxes included. So could be €40 each with a drink and coffee. But you will have had excellent food.

Food in Germany can be good, but tends to the hearty. Decent German food does, in my experience, need searching out.

Italy can also be more difficult than you imagine although the standard of pizza tend to better.

Both countries can end up being quite expensive because of the lack of the menu or special meal deal.

[Aspman]

Watch some old Top Gears, they're always on good roads in Europe.

[Madrunner]

Done most of Europe on the bike - some planned, some not.

The best trips by far were the unplanned ones -.there was never the need to be in any one place and if we liked a particular place we'd haul up, use public transport and chill for a few days.

Each evening we'd peer at a map and rough out a route for the following day - watching sat nav tends to distract me from the scenery. Forces a stop for a coffee and snack and a consult of the map.

If the weather turns and you have a rigid itinery there may be times (particularly in the mountains) where you may not want to ride.

Accommodation and their attitude to bikes is not comparable to the uk - way better. We often lodged in people's own houses after chatting to someone in a cafe or local petrol station.

Being fixed to sat nav and destinations just takes away the adventure for me - others need the reassurance of knowing where they are going.

We'd often just follow our nose for a day.

Mileage wise we tended to hit a day in the saddle on the a roads to get to a general location then drop the mileage for a couple of days and explore the area. Sometimes staying a few nights in one guest house.

Whichever way you do it you'll love it !!!

[Martin.S]

Switzerland is expensive - if you are planning on heading there you need a 'Vignette' to drive on the roads in any motor vehicle, which can be purchased at the boarder, don't bother buying one beforehand.

This is (or was a year ago) only needed to drive on the motorways - and Switzerland is very expensive. Worth a visit to Annecy in France if you get near - not far from Geneva

[nickguzzi]

^^^ AS far as I know that's right. Trouble is, the obvious fast route down the A3 Autobahn lands you at the border crossing at Basle so it is compulsory as you can only proceed via the Swiss Autoahn. Many other crossings on minor roads are totally unmanned most of the time.

Switzerland has the convenience of being very small, you can cross it in a couple of hours. I have been cutting the corner to save a bit of mileage on my way back from the south of France.

Staying overnight in Pontarlier, a quite a lively smart little town in France. The unmanned border is a few kms up the road. Using only small roads hack across country heading into the general direction of Basle. A different set of roads each time so far, and a very different Switzerland too.

At Basle Aeroport, head for Saint Louis, cross the Rhine and you pick up the signs for Germany and and the A3 Autobahn. Easy then for me to blast up to Frankfurt and see the sister.

Instead of back round to the east, direction Basle, more interesting is to take a north easterly route towards Mulhouse, and up through Alsace and the Vosges.

VERY ambivalent about satnavs. You tend to be herded on to someone else's route. The defaults are usually set for businessmen who only want the fastest route. You want the most enjoyable route to ride and you won't find that in the feature list. You may think spending hours entering countless way points will do the trick but the same algorithms are used, and fun isn't part of their equation.

They have their uses finding a particular hotel or restaurant in an unfamiliar town. Or finding your way back to the hotel after you've been out for a few.

[mender]

Re: nav, some of the new ones (top spec Garmin biker one IIRC) have biker routes and tips loaded, many can now be programmed for leisure/scenic route instead of fast too

 

Always handy to save a POI you like so you can return on another trip too

[grr666]

Yes, there's a program called 'base camp' which you download to your PC from 

Garmin where you can make YOUR OWN route up and download that to the machine so 

it takes you exactly the route you want to go rather than what IT feels is best quickest shortest etc.

It's part of why I parted with over 400 quid for mine. You can set your route up before you even 

get on the bike and if you do some internet research of places to stay,food and  fuel stops etc

 

There's also a digital fuel gauge which is handy for those bikes which don't have one.

And a simple electronic compass display if you just want to go commando and just follow your nose

while keeping tabs on basic direction of travel. Add to that the bluetooth functionality for phone and

in lid headset (There are plug in jacks as well if your headset setup is not bluetooth ready) which you

get your spoken directions and music via the built in MP3 player (which also works through the speaker

so you can listen to it like a transistor radio at your digs) 5 hours battery life (Tested that claim and it's about 4 and a bit)

and of course  being made for a bike the thing is water resistant too. You can operate it in gloves, and the on

screen buttons are larger to help with this. It all boils down to the price, it's expensive but worth it

even if you just use it to find your way home after you've gotten yourself lost...   

 

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Wow, lots of great advice here, thanks to everyone who has contributed. 

 

The tyre programme looks good but I'll need to try and get a windows laptop from someone to use it. Sure I can get one. 

 

Comms is on the list of things to get, we'll make use of them in the UK anyway so might as well get some.

 

As for the bike, I'm not really planning to be touring weekly. Normally my rides are short and for fun, while I'd prob not bother going that far on my current little CB, I think I'll buy which ever bike I like overall and just take that. Saying that, nothing is set in stone, plenty of time. 

 

Garry, Satnav sounds good! That basecamp thing looks good, will have to look into it a bit. I was going to wing it with my iphone and maps but investing in a decent nav would be a good investment. 

 

Beckz, thanks for the tips. I was only thinking of a afternoon at lake como anyway tbh. I think the book places we want to visit is a good plan though. 

 

Nick, again, top tips and a decent list of places for us to consider. I like my food and am looking forward to trying some other cuisine. 

 

After reading all the replies I've decided I was trying to cram way too much into too few days. Yes, a large part of the trip is about the riding but we want to see some places too. I think this trip we'll concentrate along north Italy & France. Then if it goes well, maybe the year after do south France, Spain, Portugal. Gonna make a rough plan and see how it all works out. 

 

Crossing wise, I was thinking about using the overnighter to the Hook of Holland, get there 745am nice and refreshed. 

 

Thanks again everyone, lots for me to think about

[nickguzzi]

When on a biking holiday, being lost is half the fun.

The other half is doing your own thing.

Where do your plans make allowance for this.

"Abroad" starts Calais/Dunkerque, where ever. You don't need to do heaps a'miles to enjoy yourself and have a great time.

I've had brilliant holidays and never been more than 100 miles from Boulogne (a great base for a short break).

Just get on your bike and ride. Stop when you feel like it. Turn off when you see a likely road. Pause to take in the view or look at the funny stuff in a market. Search out a decent restaurant - unlikely to be on a trunk route.

The very hardest part is surviving all the idiot "drivers" over here on your way to the channel.