Hi,

 

I am new to this, but have already read a lot about the VP44 injector pump and the related problems they appear to attract.

 

My 05 V6 Superb has by and large been a great car.

 

Recently it had started stuttering slightly when cruising and trying to accelerate - there was a slight delay between hitting the accelerator and the power arriving.

 

Then one morning in the way to work it lost all power above 2/2500 rpm, but produced a lot of smoke.

 

When I got to work it then refused to start at all.

 

I was able to start it with the help of a friend and some Easystart - but it ran very rough - I was able to get it to my local mechanics (who by their own admission are not VW experts). They tested the fuel lift pump and confirmed it was not working, so after a long wait for the part, they replaced it - but the problem remains. They admitted they didn't know where else to go other than replacing the injector pump, but they suggested this was an expensive option and I should try to find out more.

 

Car won't start unless I use easystart, although once started and warm it runs rough sometimes with smoke, and sometime drives surprisingly normal (with the exception of the whoosh from having the airbox off).

 

The car has 132k miles on it, and apart from this is in great condition.  I had the belts done last at 100k (just over a year ago)

 

I have more recently spoken to a mechanic who seems to know a bit more about VW diesels, and he suggests injector timing could be the issue - but he is struggling to get the right info to test this. I see lots of discussion about the injector timing at idle - but he wants to be able to check something with the engine off before he goes anywhere else??? Does this sound right???

 

Any help or advice would be very welcome - this has been ongoing to 2 months now and I'm not sure what my next steps should be!!!

 

 

First thing to do is get a vagcom scan on it and see if you can make any sense of the fault codes that are coming up.

 

The static timing won't have changed dramatically unless the toothed belt has jumped or the bolts have become loose, but if the lift pump had failed for a period, then it's possible that the VP44 mechanical parts have become worn due to cavitation, meaning that the pump is not generating the high pressures it needs at the injectors to atomise the fuel correctly, which would result in poor starting, but once started, with the engine now hot, it's possible that rough running could be achieved by the VP44 squirting poorly atomised fuel into the cylinders.

 

If no sensors have failed (vagcom scan) then the VP44 has to be a suspect as there's not much else going on - essentially it controls the delivery of the fuel at the right time and at the right pressure.

Unfortunately a loss of fuel feed pressure will finish off a VP44 fairly promptly. It appears that the timing advance servo within the VP44 is prone to damage which results in loss of timing control. The pump body is usually rendered unserviceable when this happens, but some independent pump rebuilders have a re-work for this problem. Finding a good independent specialist is your best course of action. 

 

Never use any starting fluid sprayed into the intake on any diesel engine. Violent combustion will damage big end bearings at a time when they have no oil, and excessive use can hydraulic the engine and bend the rods. If it won't start, has compression, is in-time and has feed pressure, VAGCOM is the next move.

 

rotodiesel.

Edited 15 September, 201411 yr by rotodiesel

Thanks for the answers guys - looks like I will get on Ebay and get a Vagcom - are the laptop & cable ones better that the handhelds? Does it matter?

 

I never knew about the potential damage to the engine from Ether until I had read one of your previous posts Rotodiesel - looks like I will be pushing it if I need to move it now....

Thanks for the answers guys - looks like I will get on Ebay and get a Vagcom - are the laptop & cable ones better that the handhelds? Does it matter?

VAGCOM (VCDS) is a specific product and you won't likely get a real one on ebay. It is far more powerful than a standard code reader and will display all the information you can get out of the system. It costs about £250 and you can get it from a rosstech supplier (http://www.ross-tech.com/distributors.html)

 

It is likely better you find a local owner from the forum.

I see - a little more detailed look at Ebay, and they are all code readers only or cables....thanks!

OK - so I got the codes this evening...

 

Any advice welcome and gratefully received....

 

17583 - Pre-Injection Turned Off

P1175 - 35-10 -  - Intermittent

 

00550 - Start of Injection Regulation

17-10 - Control Difference - Intermittent

 

00550 - Start of Injection Regulation

27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

 

19558 - Motor for Intake Manifold Flap (V157)

P3102 - 35-10 - No Signal - Intermittent

 

01282 - Intake Manifold Flap change-over valve (N239)

35-10 - - - Intermittent

 

Anybody got any ideas???

Google VP44 + 00550 brings up someone on an audi forum fixing their own VP44 pump (!)

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/00550-start-of-injection-regulation-solved-dyi.202862/

Another post with both codes says fuel pump ECU:

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/2004-a4-2-5-diesel-cold-start-problems-and-white-smoke.142075/

 

Might be a little useful reading in there

Thanks Jimbof - had a look at them both....I think an entire rebuild of the pump may be beyond my hands on technical ability all the same!

 

I'm assuming that these fault codes are non conclusive then? It looks as though some people have had this 00550 code and it has been a simple (ish) fix - and others have gone on to replace the whole injector pump.....

 

What fault codes would be expected if it were just the injector timing needing set - or is there no such thing as a definitive code for that versus completely written off pump??

 

Just not sure what my next steps should be....

I do feel for you on this one, but I think that somewhere along the line you need to find a GOOD mechanic who understands these things.

 

Things I would now be doing:

 

1. Look for obvious static timing issues. Get the engine at TDC and check that the locking pin hole on the pump is very close to it's locking position ( a 6mm drill bit will be OK just to look for the holes lining up). This is the position that the engine needs to be locked in during belt changes. Check that the pump belt pulley is roughly in the centre of the slotted holes. This will at least roughly tell you if the belt has jumped.

 

2. If that looks OK then use a full Vagcom package to view the static timing, though this will require running the engine. 

 

3. Suspect the VP44 electronics. There are companies (Ebay) who claim that they can repair the electronics in the VP44, though I notice that Tachsoft only specify engines up to 2003 and I haven't heard of anyone on here who has had a problem with the later pumps, so would think that it's unlikely.

 

4. Needle lift sensor. This lives on one of the injectors and gives extra feedback to the pump and has been known to fail on a couple of cars on the forum leading to the VP44 going west. I don't think you have the codes that suggest this is a problem.

 

4. Suspect the internals of the VP44. Sadly the most likely scenario. One of the forum members used a company called (I believe) PB Asher in Southampton with success and I believe the cost was around £700 for a replacement pump. There's an Austrian company on EBay (just search on VP44) who will sell you a recon pump for around £650 and their feedback and the pictures of their test gear would seem to indicate that they know what they're doing.

 

Personally, I would never want to go inside a VP44 .... I think that that's a place that only specialists should go.

 

Have a read of this thread for a similar situation and a link to a PDF for checking static timing.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/269698-skoda-superb-25-tdi-giving-me-a-lot-of-trouble/?hl=%20atdc

Having said all that, not sure if you can actually see the locking pin hole without removing the the "flywheel" from the pump pulley. It took some pictures when we did the cambelt change.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/199449-v6-cambelt-change/

I had most of those codes, the solution was a new VP44.  Once you have a new pump on it and it runs fine and the sold codes have been deleted, give it a day or two then read codes again.  If you get implausible signal error then you also need to change the lift sensor injector.  In my case this injector was sending an erroneous signal to the VP44 so the pump advance was overheating and eventually failed to start one day.

So, you need a new VP44, but also check if the lift sensor injector (I think it is number 2 on the right bank) may be broken.  Mine failed at around 100k miles, but I kept on driving for another 10k miles not realising I was potentially killing the Inj pump.

The symptom was a slightly lumpy idle.  One injector and one IP later, smooth idle and better economy than ever.

BTW, the injector is £400 from main dealer.  I got it from CAS for £300.  For the pump YOU HAVE TO go to a Bosch specialist, everything else will be rubbish.  It took the 3 days to rebuild mine, re-run on the test rig and deliver back to the trusted garage, who only charges around £150 to take it off and re-fit once rebuilt.  But the pump will be at least £1100 for rebuild.

Edited 25 September, 201411 yr by oh_superb

Very regrettably, VP44 = negated diesel economy. You could run a petrol engine for the same distance x money.

 

VAG engines are an absolute minefield - in my view they have produced more dud ones than workable units. The petrol engines with involute cam chains are another example of an engine I would not wish to own.

 

Best of luck with your new pump. Use fuel to the approved spec only, and change the fuel filter every 30k miles. Use M & H or Bosch filters only - no Chinese knock-offs.

 

rotodiesel.