After a minor altercation with a public service bus this morning I made a formal complaint to the bus company to put my thoughts across on the actions of one of their drivers.

 

I noticed that the bus was equipped with internal and external CCTV that will have likely caught the standard of mine and the buses driving together with my wasted efforts attempting to difuse the situation. 

 

Do I have a right to request a copy of the footage or at least view the CCTV?

After a minor altercation with a public service bus this morning I made a formal complaint to the bus company to put my thoughts across on the actions of one of their drivers.

I noticed that the bus was equipped with internal and external CCTV that will have likely caught the standard of mine and the buses driving together with my wasted efforts attempting to difuse the situation.

Do I have a right to request a copy of the footage or at least view the CCTV?

Get yourself a dash cam too now

Fully agreed. One with audio too would have been useful to record the plethora of abuse spouted from the oafs foul mouth.

Fully agreed. One with audio too would have been useful to record the plethora of abuse spouted from the oafs foul mouth.

Most do have audio tbh, any damage to your car :(

No contact but it was very nearly a Skoda Superb and 2x single decker bus sandwich. I would have come off worse, no doubt about it

No contact but it was very nearly a Skoda Superb and 2x single decker bus sandwich. I would have come off worse, no doubt about it

I'd ask for the CCTV footage don't know how far it will get you though! Maybe Blackvue time as if it proves one claim it could pay for itself in 1 minute!

Think you should be allowed a copy under freedom of information act

Sent from my Galaxy S5

That's what I was thinking.

 

I don't want to use the footage for anything other than my own curiosity.

 

I was halfway past a stationary bus when the offending bus met me head-on. He then had two choices, 1. to let me past or 2. (the choice he took) to roll forward right up to the bonnet of my stationary car preventing me from passing the parked bus and leaving me stranded and blocking the road in the process.

I know the amount of forms we have to fill out at work just to release the CCTV to the police is ridiculous. Recently a driver had an accident with a van that drove off, he wasnt even allowed to view the CCTV himself! Worth asking though. 

 

What happened? Where'd the bus that come towards you come from? Out of a junction? 

Subject access request under the data protection act is the easiest way, but then you can only request footage of yourself.

Think you should be allowed a copy under freedom of information act

Sent from my Galaxy S5

 

That only applies to public bodies not private companies.

Hmm, sounds like the bus company (Arriva) could quite easily refuse my request then. No big issue, I'm not planning on taking it any further, like I mentioned I was just curious as I've been going back over the incident in my mind ever since trying to understand whether my initial mistake warranted the bus drivers (over?) reaction or whether he was just being a bully.

 What happened? Where'd the bus that come towards you come from? Out of a junction? 

 

There is a new stretch of road near my work. There has been an ongoing issue with the local Council around the design of the road from the day it was built. It basically involves a straight stretch of two way single carriageway that leads into a rather tight S bend that then immediately terminates at a T junction.

 

This makes it very difficult for larger vehicles to negotiate both the S bends and T junction safely, especially if there are two vehicles of the same size attempting to pass.

 

The Council knew that the single decker buses would be using the route as the bus route is also brand new to service the growing retail park and industrial estate, yet they still made the road very narrow.

 

This I'm told was deliberate to prevent HGV's from using this particular route and instead forcing them down a wider (but longer) route. As expected the HGV's simply ignore the 7.5T weight restriction and quite happily use the shorter route which results in them needing the full width of both carriageways. 

 

This isn't a major issue as long as drivers are paying attention and plan accordingly. What does cause an issue is that the second half of the S bend and the T junction cannot be seen when approaching so it is not possible to determine what oncoming traffic will appear around the corner. Again driving slowly and to the conditions means issues are easily avoided.

 

As someone who drives this stretch each day I am aware and am prepeared. Yesterday morning however was a new one for me.

 

I was driving down the straight stretch approaching the S bends following two other cars. I could see a bus travelling in the same direction as us was stationary in the road immediately before the first bend. There is no bus stop and remember it is a blind bend now obscurred even further by the bus.

 

The two cars infront of me braked, indicated and pulled out around the bus at a slow (15-20mph) speed.

 

This is where I made my mistake. I was in 'lemming' mode. I too approached the bus and subcontiously assumed that he had an issue and was perhaps stranded. There were no brake lights, tail lights, or indicator / hazard lights, nor was there any obvious motioning from the drivers window and I knew there was no bus stop.

 

As my passenger side door mirror drew level with the drivers window my view of the next section of the S bend became clearer, it was at this point things became much clearer. The stationary bus was giving way to another oncoming bus and was not parked or stranded.

 

I came to a quick stop (I was only doing 15-20mph) and at this point the oncoming bus was roughly three to four car lengths away travelling even more slowly than me.

 

The oncoming driver, who will have seen the other two cars 'sneaking through' will no doubt have thought 'stupid idiots', then when faced with a third 'idiot' (me) I'm guessing he wanted to make a point. He now had two choices...

 

1) Slowly roll to a gradual stop leaving me plenty of space the get though or...

2) Make an example of this fool and roll slowly right up to the bonnet of my car therefore blocking my forward exit.

 

You can guess which option he chose. Stalemate.

 

My lip reading skills aren't great, but I gathered he wasn't happy and together with his gesticulation I could see we were destined not to become friends.

 

With no where to go (several cars directly behind me) and more cars now directly behind the stationary bus I had no where to go.

 

Throwing his hands in the air he applied the handbrake, shut off his engine and crossed his arms. Knowing that he could have let me through but chose not to and with his foul mouthed antics and reddening face I decided I'd have a quick chat with him.

 

I briefly mentioned the two choices he had and questioned his reasoning for choosing the most difficult one. I admitted my mistake. He shouted something about the safety of his passengers taking priority and the increased stopping distances of a bus mixed in with various swear words. I reminded him that he was all but stationary when he saw me, and that the two cars before me should have alerted him to the possibility of a third car being present but it was clear we were getting nowhere.

 

I'm not PCV trained but being stood where I was it was now clear to me that both buses could have easily passed each other. Conscious of the fact that I'd now completely blocked the road for at least a minute I returned to my car and reversed into the 6 foot gap between me and the car sat behind me. He started his engine and again pulled right up to the front of my car. The original stationary bus then carried on. 

 

I was now still unable to return to the correct side of the road as he was still right on my front bumper so the car behind made the move first allowing me to reverse back a little bit more to swing round. Even then the bus was still trying to edge forward to stop me.

 

So all in all a pretty unpleasant experience, my mistake made far more worse than necessary by two pally bus drivers keen to make a point.

 

I'm hoping the CCTV will at least demonstrate the less than helpful actions of the driver and show that there was space for them to pass well before any of us had to reverse. Lesson learnt.

Edited 30 September, 201411 yr by silver1011

Chances are your reply will be that it was broken etc etc.

The driver however might find it in full working order and asked to commentate on it for his bosses

Ok, so it's the drivers actions after you've made the mistake thats the issue. I dont think him not letting you through is going to bother the bus company in the slightest but if he was verbally abusive or giving abusive hand signals towards you then that will 100% be of an interest to them (dont ask how I know  :sun: ) If he was abusive I'd just wack a complaint in to them.

 

At the end of the day you know you made a mistake, in all fairness without seeing it from his point of view it's hard to comment wether he could/should have stopped or not. It's easy enough to stop a bus fairly quickly but you do have to make the choice of stopping quickly and possibly chucking everyone/everyones shopping down the bus along with cries of 'Steady on the brakes driver!' or stopping a few lengths further and no one noticing. Having said that whatever happened the verbal and attitude isnt warranted, especially as you held you hands up from the off (I'm sure most will agree, the majority of the time if someone cuts you up, pulls out in front of you etc etc, a quick sorry and it defuses the situations quite well). 

 

You wont get the CCTV for your own viewing I'm 99% sure of that, but it'd be worth putting a complaint in if he was abusive, saves the rest of us getting a bad name because of him! 

It's true that without the other drivers side of the argument it is very much a one-sided story.

 

However I am almost certain that he knew that I was there well before he actually saw me and that his actions were premeditated.

 

Putting myself in his shoes I'd have likely done the same. Being a professional driver, driving a branded vehicle with a full load of passengers however would mean I'd never react the way he did.

 

I have logged a complaint with Arriva and they said they'd respond within 10 days. To be honest I'd rather they didn't. The deal is done now, as mentioned I was curious to see if the actions of the driver were as I remember, nothing more.

 

If I have no right to view the CCTV then my curiosity will have to remain!

As a "data subject" you are well within your rights to ask to view any footage they may have of you (including any "personally identifiable information" - this includes the reg plate of your car).

The bus company then has to make a "reasonable attempt" to allow you to view it, if they can prove it's unreasonable because of the amount of effort required to retrieve it they can refuse but with modern equipment everything is time and date stamped & indexed so should be straightforward as long as you can give an accurate time & date (and the time & date are set correctly on the DVR).

They can charge you up yo £10 for the footage though, and refuse if there are other people identifiable in it.

i was under the impression for the protection of other peoples data and information the freedom of information act only covers information of anything that is you and anything about your person or belongings. but as the bus captures passengers getting on and off and other people are involved i don't think they will realise the footage to you.

 

what company was it?

 

 

I briefly mentioned the two choices he had and questioned his reasoning for choosing the most difficult one. I admitted my mistake. He shouted something about the safety of his passengers taking priority and the increased stopping distances of a bus mixed in with various swear words. I reminded him that he was all but stationary when he saw me, and that the two cars before me should have alerted him to the possibility of a third car being present but it was clear we were getting nowhere.

 

I'm not PCV trained but being stood where I was it was now clear to me that both buses could have easily passed each other.

 

I am a lcv driver at present and work for a large company in Liverpool,  i had a similar incident where i was coming along a two lane road pretty tight in the middle of town with a loading bay to my right now i seen a taxi stopping on the opposite side of the road about 20ft ahead of me but being in the middle of a junction i proceeded in the direction was going because i didn't want to cause further gridlock all because a taxi driver wants to drop off or pick up a fair , (which i think should be punishable, they think they can just stop anywhere and use the 'i can stop anywhere lights', to me and you they are hazard lights, try telling them that. but thats another story for another day)

 

Anyway i then notice a taxi pokes its front end out of the loading bay into my lane but he was also facing towards me having seen the taxi stop he wanted to get in front of the taxi knowing full well they width of my bus wouldn't fit through the gap between him and the opposing taxi. So now this left me no choice but to stop, thats the bit that takes some skill believe it or not. Don't know if you are aware of how bus brakes are set up but they have something called a retarder then the breaks come into play , anyway i applied the brakes and tried to come to a controlled stop fully aware i had no where els to go apart from to stop before i hit this taxis front end as he wasn't courteous enough to back into the bay and try again when the traffic had cleared. He had this perception that i could stop a 12+ton bus loaded with 80+ passengers (some standing) on a 10p piece. and it docent work like that you have to take into account passenger safety. So when breaking i ride the retarder out and onto the brakes i break nice a smooth ... admittedly i was pretty close to him but I'm not jamming on causing falls so i can let some tit end taxi driver out who docent get the concept of passenger safety as he hasn't actually took a professional diving test and thinks everything can stop as fast as his taxi with no passengers in it weighing about 1.5 ton.

 

Having done all this and still stopped with enough of a gap to let him out bearing in mind if have no stopped where i didn't want to in the middle of a junction causing more disruption he then has the cheek to look at me as if to say you could have stopped prior to when i did? F'ing and blinding at me? when technically iv been the courteous  one in trying my best to help out?

 

And by the sounds of the driver you come into contact with sounds like he was protecting passenger safety. always remember you can jam on a busses breaks , they are HELLISHLY touchy at the best of times plus no one is wearing a seatbelt.

 

Don't think I'm sticking up for his actions but always remember driving all day every day you see some things that tip you over the edge specially when someone i a small nimble car expects you to move out of their way in situations like this .. what tends to happen when you stop a bus is people start to creep round you like you did with that first stationary bus and when your close to him that now means he can't move due to tail swing and other contributing factors.

 

Rob.

Safety,stopping distances and blame not really the issue here though

The op has admitted being at fault initially

Stopping the engine though? Sitting there with your arms folded? Really?

He must be a fun guy to live with/next door to

As said,a pity you haven't your own footage

Good luck and keep us posted

Speaking of bus drivers, this one will no doubt be getting further tuition

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11505375.VIDEO__Bus_blocks_level_crossing_as_train_approaches/

Tram no train

Safety,stopping distances and blame not really the issue here though

The op has admitted being at fault initially

Stopping the engine though? Sitting there with your arms folded? Really?

He must be a fun guy to live with/next door to

 

Not commenting on this particular situation but I'll admit to doing it before now, if I've met head to head with someone who doesnt want to move. Generally gets the message that you're not going to be reversing anytime soon. It's the verbal thats the issue tbh. 

Tram no train

 

No, the red thing on the road is a BUS, which ignored the lights and sounders at an unbarriered level crossing, ignored the yellow hatching (box junction) markings of a level crossing and decided it was clever to try and argue/delay with a Class 66 EWS freight loco pulling a train of car transporters. 

Not a good idea and I would expect the company to be getting a letter/visit from BTP very soon.