Shaver socket in the bathroom. That's all I got. HTH.

There is no such thing as a clean earth, it still goes back to your fuse board and onto the main earth of the house. I dont see what difference it will make.

Also the kitchen should already be on its own circuit.

Edited 17 February, 201511 yr by V5-Steve

besides the sheilded CAT6, masses of power points, get copper braid & copper foil satellite cable and use for DAB & TV....gone mine from screwfix.

Also check all the x-bonding & make sure all solid & use correct size.

Also install separate earth cable (max size to fit in earth on power point rear) (from main fuse board) to your main TV & HI-fi power points

Also think about a Marshall Tuflex power regulator device......basically smooth's the power to a constant 220v.....install between the incomer fuses & your main fuseboard...........

I put that into babelfish and I am still none the wiser.

There is no such thing as a clean earth, it still goes back to your fuse board and onto the main earth of the house. I dont see what difference it will make.

Also the kitchen should already be on its own circuit.

As it stands there are only 3 circuits for the entire house. Lights up and down, sockets up and down and a third which I've no idea it's for? Cooker? Electric fire? Immersion?

It may as well be not wired for the work that needs doing. I've spoken to someone and am waiting for a quote.

At this stage, where would I be best looking to buy cable and rj45 stuff?

I would say your main difference with the old simple number of circuits is that the current regs require rcbo's on each circuit. This means you really would want more circuits, so that in the event of an rcbo going off, you don't lose all your power at once. I.e. light's upstairs separate from downstairs.

There is no such thing as a clean earth, it still goes back to your fuse board and onto the main earth of the house. I dont see what difference it will make.

Also the kitchen should already be on its own circuit.

 

These is such a thing as a clean earth......(how clean depends on how much you spend/engineer).........huge amounts on the web on this.....(also loads of non-believers....I do believe, well I have studied electrical engineering!)........I had a small flat with one ring main, the fridge when it switched on affected the hi-fi if it was on..................ran a big earth cable from the hi-fi power socket to the fuse board, & put the kitchen area on it's own ring main.......problem solved.........

I put that into babelfish and I am still none the wiser.

 Which bit?

3 phase supply for the electric car or a chipped kettle.

These is such a thing as a clean earth......(how clean depends on how much you spend/engineer).........huge amounts on the web on this.....(also loads of non-believers....I do believe, well I have studied electrical engineering!)........I had a small flat with one ring main, the fridge when it switched on affected the hi-fi if it was on..................ran a big earth cable from the hi-fi power socket to the fuse board, & put the kitchen area on it's own ring main.......problem solved.........

Which bit?

So which solved the problem. Moving the kitchen ring or the earth. I would of said moving the ring.

As for a non believer,no, I am an electrician. Just questioning how far the OP needs to go, cable is not cheap to just be throwing loads in walls.

Edited 17 February, 201511 yr by V5-Steve

So which solved the problem. Moving the kitchen ring or the earth. I would of said moving the ring.

As for a non believer,no, I am an electrician. Just questioning how far the OP needs to go, cable is not cheap to just be throwing loads in walls.

 

Both worked as I did the earth first then later on did the ring...................each was an "improvement".............................

 

TBH I like to split the house into masses of smaller ring circuits..............when I next re-wire I'll do the rings in 4mm T&E which I think is the thickest you can fit in the back of an MK socket......................

4mm ring is unnecessary, how often do you run your ring circuit at near full load? I would suggest rcbo's for less inconvenience in case of a fault (pita to test as an electrician though) hard wired optical smokes, one downstairs one upstairs and a heat in the kitchen (radio linked bases) double socket outside for pressure washer, get a board with at least 3-4 spare ways, buy decent quality gear (cheap ****e isna false economy)

4mm ring is unnecessary, how often do you run your ring circuit at near full load?

 

Don't run at full load......well maybe the kitchen! Main reason is because of long runs & insulation covering the cables so with a 4mm don't have to de-rate as much!

 

TBH I think all this thick insulation & air-tightness in the new buildings will cause more problems for de-rating cables!

Don't run at full load......well maybe the kitchen! Main reason is because of long runs & insulation covering the cables so with a 4mm don't have to de-rate as much!

TBH I think all this thick insulation & air-tightness in the new buildings will cause more problems for de-rating cables!

I know the reason for increased conductor size, but proper design (avoiding insulation etc) would mean only 2.5mm would be necessary, which works out at a fair cost saving over the whole house, although is there really any long runs in a typical house?

Opportunity to review the electrical bonding system  and the Consumer unit and avoid some of the horrors installed in  earlier vintage buildings.

 

May be even go for a centralised earth rod/strip and circuit breakers in place of fuses ?

 

Most existing  properties rely on connections to internal piping to make bonding (Earth) connections for "Structural"  electrical components e.g. boxes, roses and pump cases.

 

In my 1980s house this was exemplified by an earth wire connection from the metal wall box housing a three pin double socket  in the bedroom next to the bathroom to the 22mm copper cold water supply pipe to the bath. The earth wire ran underneath the bath for its whole length. Nice and safe (NOT 1)  and bearing an electrical certification tag,  especially when you consider that recently I have had to remove the bath because the trap connection leaked and rotted the chipboard floor all around the bonding connection. I only found out about it when I took the bath out.

 

Equally, it may be preferable to keep a fuse box in place of CB's if the local supply is highly variable and simply buy a smoothing device for the high value kit connections. That was the case with my house, well at least until, an unfortunate car crash involving the local substation compelled the French Utility company to replace the aging 1930s substation transformer(s). Nice.

 

Nick

Edited 18 February, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

Opportunity to review the electrical bonding system and the Consumer unit and avoid some of the horrors installed in earlier vintage buildings.

May be even go for a centralised earth rod/strip and circuit breakers in place of fuses ?

Most existing properties rely on connections to internal piping to make bonding (Earth) connections for "Structural" electrical components e.g. boxes, roses and pump cases.

In my 1980s house this was exemplified by an earth wire connection from the metal wall box housing a three pin double socket in the bedroom next to the bathroom to the 22mm copper cold water supply pipe to the bath. The earth wire ran underneath the bath for its whole length. Nice and safe (NOT 1) and bearing an electrical certification tag, especially when you consider that recently I have had to remove the bath because the trap connection leaked and rotted the chipboard floor all around the bonding connection. I only found out about it when I took the bath out.

Equally, it may be preferable to keep a fuse box in place of CB's if the local supply is highly variable and simply buy a smoothing device for the high value kit connections. That was the case with my house, well at least until, an unfortunate car crash involving the local substation compelled the French Utility company to replace the aging 1930s substation transformer(s). Nice.

Nick

What?

What's the "What" for ?

 

Electrical bonding - designed to protect you from secondary risks of electrocution. e.g. you're using say a hand held double-insulated device, say shaver or hair dryer. The insulation breaks down and you get made part of the circuit. If at the same time you're holding a towel rail or similar metal household fitting with your other hand, the electrical power will  short to ground using the path of least resistance, passing from the shaver, through you, into the metal towel rail. Unless the metal towel rail is connected to a substantial earth, you will encounter the full value of the electrical discharge.

 

Consequently, various items round the house are usually  electrically "Bonded" together into a earthing line to minimise this effect e.g. copper piping, radiators, towel rails, ballastrades, metal boxes to power sockets and metal fire escapes. Ultimately the "Bonded" line will be connected to either an independent earth spike planted in the ground (Usually a little way away from the property, in order to counter the possibility of a ground loop being formed) or to the earth line in your Consumer unit. You can spot  the tagged cross connection from pipework passing near the consumer unit.

 

If you're taking over an old house, its important to check that existing bonding lines are still functional and if your undertaking alterations and installing lots of new kit then new connections will need to be made.

 

Nick

Edited 20 February, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

What's the "What" for ?

 

Electrical bonding -

If you're taking over an old house, its important to check that existing bonding lines are still functional and if your undertaking alterations and installing lots of new kit then new connections will need to be made.

 

Nick

 

people tend to know this as cross bonding...................

 

Also a lot of modern supply systems are just one core for live with the outer steel wire armour (still encased in a rubber/plastic sleeve) doing the duty of neutral & earth!................This is to the main incomer fuse. Then the N& E is split off into two & taken to your fuse board.

people tend to know this as cross bonding...................

 

Also a lot of modern supply systems are just one core for live with the outer steel wire armour (still encased in a rubber/plastic sleeve) doing the duty of neutral & earth!................This is to the main incomer fuse. Then the N& E is split off into two & taken to your fuse board.

Fine.

 

But I am still left  wondering how that system will deal with the situation where  a double insulated device  (i.e. unconnected to the power line earth)  suffers insulation break-down and you are holding it whilst tastefully posing with a hand on the towel rail ?

 

N

Edited 20 February, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

Fine.

 

But I am still left  wondering how that system will deal with the situation where  a double insulated device  (i.e. unconnected to the power line earth)  suffers insulation break-down and you are holding it whilst tastefully posing with a hand on the towel rail ?

 

N

 

It's called a TN-C-S system , also known as PME......................google it. Most electricity boards have been using this for years..............most home owners won't even know!.....the consumer side is still the same, so RCD's, MCB's, RCBO's etc..........

 

People can really screw this up if they decide to install their own earthing spike without consulting the electric board................especially if they add a spike to their system in addition to the PME!!

Edited 20 February, 201511 yr by fabdavrav

Gents

None of what your getting into is helping the OP with his question. May I politely suggest you keep his post clear or start a new one.

It's called a TN-C-S system , also known as PME......................google it. Most electricity boards have been using this for years..............most home owners won't even know!.....the consumer side is still the same, so RCD's, MCB's, RCBO's etc..........

 

People can really screw this up if they decide to install their own earthing spike without consulting the electric board................especially if they add a spike to their system in addition to the PME!!

I can understand how a system based on a combined earth and neutral (TN-C-S) would be incompatible with a system running separate earth and neutral (i.e. what's found in most people's home). I take it that TN-C-S is usually only implemented down to the local substation and is most likely to be found implemented down to household level on new estates, otherwise we'd have seen the roads in the UK being dug-up en masse, North-Sea Gas style, to replace local distribution network electricity cables and householders having to retro-fit new cabling ?

 

If electricity suppliers are installing TN-C-S in existing cabled areas without telling/canvassing the local populace, doesn't this run a certain risk, as there may be some who have already got a prior earthing spike installation and other incompatible installations ?

 

Nick

Edited 20 February, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

Earth spikes are normally used when a property is fed by overhead lines

Earth spikes are normally used when a property is fed by overhead lines

What's the "What" for ?

Electrical bonding - designed to protect you from secondary risks of electrocution. e.g. you're using say a hand held double-insulated device, say shaver or hair dryer. The insulation breaks down and you get made part of the circuit. If at the same time you're holding a towel rail or similar metal household fitting with your other hand, the electrical power will short to ground using the path of least resistance, passing from the shaver, through you, into the metal towel rail. Unless the metal towel rail is connected to a substantial earth, you will encounter the full value of the electrical discharge.

Consequently, various items round the house are usually electrically "Bonded" together into a earthing line to minimise this effect e.g. copper piping, radiators, towel rails, ballastrades, metal boxes to power sockets and metal fire escapes. Ultimately the "Bonded" line will be connected to either an independent earth spike planted in the ground (Usually a little way away from the property, in order to counter the possibility of a ground loop being formed) or to the earth line in your Consumer unit. You can spot the tagged cross connection from pipework passing near the consumer unit.

If you're taking over an old house, its important to check that existing bonding lines are still functional and if your undertaking alterations and installing lots of new kit then new connections will need to be made.

Nick

I know exactly how bonding works (I am an electrician) the "what" was because you're post seemed unclear. Also in your response above you said that unless the towel rail was bonded you would get a shock. Even if it IS bonded, you will still recieve a shock, as there is a potential difference (voltage) between you at 240v and the towel rail at 0v so your original statement about bonding being used to keep you safe there is incorrect. If, however, ypu grabbed a gas pipe amd a water pipe that were not bonded together, you may receive a shock, as they could be at different potentials. Thos is what bonding is used to protect against, by bringing all extraneous conductive parts to the same potential.

I can understand how a system based on a combined earth and neutral (TN-C-S) would be incompatible with a system running separate earth and neutral (i.e. what's found in most people's home). I take it that TN-C-S is usually only implemented down to the local substation and is most likely to be found implemented down to household level on new estates, otherwise we'd have seen the roads in the UK being dug-up en masse, North-Sea Gas style, to replace local distribution network electricity cables and householders having to retro-fit new cabling ?

 

If electricity suppliers are installing TN-C-S in existing cabled areas without telling/canvassing the local populace, doesn't this run a certain risk, as there may be some who have already got a prior earthing spike installation and other incompatible installations ?

 

Nick

 

I have a 100yr old property & it is TN-C-S..................so are loads up here & I'm not on overheads,......also there are strict regulations is force regarding it's installation (all electric side, nothing consumer side).also the DTI have to be informed.

 

Earth spikes are normally used when a property is fed by overhead lines

 

Until someone fits one in the garden to get rid of mains buzz & Is a radio ham, hi-fi nut....................