vRS Handling

[MartynVRS]

Looking at fine tuning handling on an Octavia vRS FL 2.0T. Trying to dial out some of the understeer, get it to turn in a bit more keenly and damp better. I'll be getting Bilstein B8's but the DPM site list two front strut diameters. 50mm or 55mm. Not sure what's best to go for.

Has anyone done anything special when it comes to suspension geometry? I'm only interested in good handling on the road while still having normal tyre wear and life. Are there any must haves I need to do apart from Eibach and Bilsteins? H&R RARB's still the best to go for? Just any tweaks or additions to improve handling I'll consider.

[wiilydog]

It will be 55mm for a vrs as it is determined by front hub size. Also b6 dampers are also fine with standard stock springs.

[MartynVRS]

It's already on Eibach's so makes sense to go B8's . Just don't know much about what can be done handling wise on an Octy vRS. Plenty of threads about power increases but that's irrelevant if the car can't use it all. Hence the LSD thread. Roads in Wales are great so really want a good setup.

[Dallen75]

Martyn where in Wales are you ?

[Yeti_Man]

I've just done B6's with Eibachs on one of the cars and B8's with Eibachs on the other and if you want a proper sporty setup with very little compromise then I'd give the nod to the B8 and Eibach setup. It's superb. The B6's are very good and feel massively better/over engineered compared to the OE units but the B8 + Eibachs feel perfectly matched - no surprise when you discover Bilstien actually test and develop the B8's with the Eibach springs. In regards to minimising understeer - I had uprated Eibach arbs on the Vrs tfsi and they were the best bang per buck I did. I'd also consider alloy front control arms or adjustable top mounts to enable dailing in some negative camber

[Dallen75]

Ive got B8s in but i bought as a kit with wrong springs for octy so had them a bit cheaper. I have H&R -50mm springs mated to B8s so a 35mm drop on Vrs and i must say when giving it beans on Welsh B roads it surprised me to say how well it handles corners under breaking or powering out the bends

[MartynVRS]

I've just done B6's with Eibachs on one of the cars and B8's with Eibachs on the other and if you want a proper sporty setup with very little compromise then I'd give the nod to the B8 and Eibach setup. It's superb. The B6's are very good and feel massively better/over engineered compared to the OE units but the B8 + Eibachs feel perfectly matched - no surprise when you discover Bilstien actually test and develop the B8's with the Eibach springs.

I run B8's and Eibachs on my Fabia. Transformed the car and made it the car Skoda should have made in the first place.

[Dallen75]

Forgot to say i also have whiteline rarb set on middle and whiteline anti lift kit as well as front wishbone polybush, THS full engine mounts and im just busy putting all rear polybushes in...its never ending ......"

[Dallen75]

I've just done B6's with Eibachs on one of the cars and B8's with Eibachs on the other and if you want a proper sporty setup with very little compromise then I'd give the nod to the B8 and Eibach setup. It's superb. The B6's are very good and feel massively better/over engineered compared to the OE units but the B8 + Eibachs feel perfectly matched - no surprise when you discover Bilstien actually test and develop the B8's with the Eibach springs. In regards to minimising understeer - I had uprated Eibach arbs on the Vrs tfsi and they were the best bang per buck I did. I'd also consider alloy front control arms or adjustable top mounts to enable dailing in some negative camber

Hi Yeti_Man: what camber settings are you running with the adjustable top mounts ? Nearly went for a set a few months ago but didnt have enough info on them to understand what to do with them !?

[Yeti_Man]

Hi Yeti_Man: what camber settings are you running with the adjustable top mounts ? Nearly went for a set a few months ago but didnt have enough info on them to understand what to do with them !?

i don't use them I'm afraid but iirc you can dial in a coupl of mm of negative camber with them. A few of the US guys use them on the mk5 so check out their forums I'm changing view on polybushes on the mk5 platform and found advantages in going back to OE rubber bushes for fast road use. They just give that extra compliancy that's needed to when everything else is stiffened up IMO.

[MartynVRS]

i don't use them I'm afraid but iirc you can dial in a coupl of mm of negative camber with them. A few of the US guys use them on the mk5 so check out their forums I'm changing view on polybushes on the mk5 platform and found advantages in going back to OE rubber bushes for fast road use. They just give that extra compliancy that's needed to when everything else is stiffened up IMO.

It's something I theorised and do have concerns about but glad I'm not the only one who realised it too. By making it too stiff you end up backing off as it could be too jarring over bumpier roads. By having some OE bushes gives a bit more give.

[Yeti_Man]

It's something I theorised and do have concerns about but glad I'm not the only one who realised it too. By making it too stiff you end up backing off as it could be too jarring over bumpier roads. By having some OE bushes gives a bit more give.

mine actually skips sideways slightly on mid turn Tarmac joins and bumps on polybushes. Back on OE rubber bushes that issue has gone and I can actually carry more speed through! It's my one and only regret of my current project car.

[Dallen75]

Yeah can see both your points there but my main concern was fit and forget, oe bushes will perish again if given alot of punishment.. Or so i thought. I had an advisory on my mot in december saying excessive play in offside rear wheel, which i forgot about over xmas. Decided to drive 300 mile in jan upto parents and the car was bad on motorway. On long sweeping righthand bends it was ok but overtaking and pulling back in or lefthand bends i could feel the back end twitching or skipping enough to start annoying me, before i bought some of the polybushes i got car up on a ramp and found excessive play in one bush so replaced both lower arms £30 or so each and now drives spot on again. Yeti_Man what polybushes did you use ?

[Yeti_Man]

Yeah can see both your points there but my main concern was fit and forget, oe bushes will perish again if given alot of punishment.. Or so i thought. I had an advisory on my mot in december saying excessive play in offside rear wheel, which i forgot about over xmas. Decided to drive 300 mile in jan upto parents and the car was bad on motorway. On long sweeping righthand bends it was ok but overtaking and pulling back in or lefthand bends i could feel the back end twitching or skipping enough to start annoying me, before i bought some of the polybushes i got car up on a ramp and found excessive play in one bush so replaced both lower arms £30 or so each and now drives spot on again. Yeti_Man what polybushes did you use ?

Polybush is the actual brand. Had Powerflex on the last three cars. Standard bushes have got a lot better in the last few years and as such I wont be doing poly bushes to future cars.

[brad1.8T]

To get better turn-in better & be a bit more stable in corners you should look at the following:

1. change the console bush to the non-voided S3 type
2. Change the lower control arms to alloy units from either an S3 or a late model Passat.
3. Instead of 1 & 2 fit Supalloy lower control arms
4. fit passat alloy hub carriers
5. Fit a light weight big brake kit / hatted rotors - be careful what you choose if you have the passat hub carriers as the brake mount lugs are thicker
6. fit lightweight alloy wheels

The more weight you can remove from the front the better the turn-in will be.

 

maybe fiddle with tyre pressures and wheel alignment angles a bit as well.

[MartynVRS]

To get better turn-in better & be a bit more stable in corners you should look at the following:

1. change the console bush to the non-voided S3 type
2. Change the lower control arms to alloy units from either an S3 or a late model Passat.
3. Instead of 1 & 2 fit Supalloy lower control arms
4. fit passat alloy hub carriers
5. Fit a light weight big brake kit / hatted rotors - be careful what you choose if you have the passat hub carriers as the brake mount lugs are thicker
6. fit lightweight alloy wheels

The more weight you can remove from the front the better the turn-in will be.

 

maybe fiddle with tyre pressures and wheel alignment angles a bit as well.

I actually have S3 wishbones ready to go on. Hopefully doing that in the next few weeks. I'll be ordering Bilstein B8's but not sure what to do with ARB's. DPM do several where front is thicker than the rear. I could make it stiffer laterally but the understeer would still be there. I'm thinking since the Octy has more to adjust over a Fabia it could well be a slight alignment issue. I quite like cars to move about at the rear. I'm not it ever expecting to be like something old school like a 306 GTi but a bit of adjustability would be nice.

What tyre pressures are people running? It's on Goodyear Eagle F1's all round.

[rob_e]

To get better turn-in better & be a bit more stable in corners you should look at the following:

1. change the console bush to the non-voided S3 type
2. Change the lower control arms to alloy units from either an S3 or a late model Passat.
3. Instead of 1 & 2 fit Supalloy lower control arms
4. fit passat alloy hub carriers
5. Fit a light weight big brake kit / hatted rotors - be careful what you choose if you have the passat hub carriers as the brake mount lugs are thicker
6. fit lightweight alloy wheels

The more weight you can remove from the front the better the turn-in will be.

 

maybe fiddle with tyre pressures and wheel alignment angles a bit as well.

 

I did everything on that list bar #4

 

Mine i also had superpro camber adjsutable ball joints so you can dial in some negative camber on the front.  The other significant change is the rear anti roll bar - i had a couple of different ones, H&R adjustable would be my recommendation.

 

I wrote up my chassis mods here btw:  http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/278947-chassis-upgrade/  

 

HTH.

 

Rob

[rob_e]

I actually have S3 wishbones ready to go on. Hopefully doing that in the next few weeks. I'll be ordering Bilstein B8's but not sure what to do with ARB's. DPM do several where front is thicker than the rear. I could make it stiffer laterally but the understeer would still be there. I'm thinking since the Octy has more to adjust over a Fabia it could well be a slight alignment issue. I quite like cars to move about at the rear. I'm not it ever expecting to be like something old school like a 306 GTi but a bit of adjustability would be nice.

What tyre pressures are people running? It's on Goodyear Eagle F1's all round.

 

Martyn - if you want it "looser" at the rear, then just do the rear bar.  Soft front/stiffer rear = more lively rear, more likely to lift-off-oversteer etc.  

[JezF1000]

To get better turn-in better & be a bit more stable in corners you should look at the following:

• change the console bush to the non-voided S3 type
• Change the lower control arms to alloy units from either an S3 or a late model Passat.
• Instead of 1 & 2 fit Supalloy lower control arms
• fit passat alloy hub carriers
• Fit a light weight big brake kit / hatted rotors - be careful what you choose if you have the passat hub carriers as the brake mount lugs are thicker
• fit lightweight alloy wheels

The more weight you can remove from the front the better the turn-in will be.

maybe fiddle with tyre pressures and wheel alignment angles a bit as well.

Or buy a Caterham!!

I'm having B12's fitted in the next couple of weeks, what would be the next logical upgrade - rear ARB?

[TsvRS]

I have a pair of Passat LCAs in the shed but could not fit them because they would knock the steering out beyond alignment but according to http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_R--2.0T/ES2612300/ they can be used with S3 console mounts or with Passat hub carriers. Bit late for me really as I only just replaced the front wheel bearings.

[dunknat]

I just bought a pair of Passat b6 alloy LCA's. Thought they were a direct replacement on an octavia?

[TsvRS]

My wheel alignment place, Wheels in Motion in Chesham, know their stuff and said they didn't fit (I had asked them to do the job) and ended up fitting only the non-voided bushes I had supplied. Sounds though that there is an easy way out using the S3 console housings.

[MartynVRS]

I did everything on that list bar #4

 

Mine i also had superpro camber adjsutable ball joints so you can dial in some negative camber on the front.  The other significant change is the rear anti roll bar - i had a couple of different ones, H&R adjustable would be my recommendation.

 

I wrote up my chassis mods here btw:  http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/278947-chassis-upgrade/

 

HTH.

 

Rob

This is pretty handy. How were the adjustable ball joints to fit? Were they from Awesome GTI?

[brad1.8T]

I actually have S3 wishbones ready to go on. Hopefully doing that in the next few weeks. I'll be ordering Bilstein B8's but not sure what to do with ARB's. DPM do several where front is thicker than the rear. I could make it stiffer laterally but the understeer would still be there. I'm thinking since the Octy has more to adjust over a Fabia it could well be a slight alignment issue. I quite like cars to move about at the rear. I'm not it ever expecting to be like something old school like a 306 GTi but a bit of adjustability would be nice.

What tyre pressures are people running? It's on Goodyear Eagle F1's all round.

I think you could set the back up quite lively with some thought.

 

I generally run 36-38psi but my garage told me at last service I was getting inner/outer edge wear on all 4 tyres (RE050A) so i bumped them up to 42psi as they are down to 3mm anyway.

 

 

Re: Passat LCAs.  I think you'll find the arms are the right size but the console housings are "wrong" and need re-drilling or the plane of the console bush is on the centreline rather than offset. I don't think there are any show-stoppers there.  It's easy enough to check with a tape measure on the old & new parts.

 

The TT arms are the ones that knock the alignment out excessively (and need different slotted ball joints) There are plenty of threads on various forums such as Golf MkV & GolfMKVI & VW Vortex if you wish to research

Edited 15 April, 2015 by brad1.8T

[rob_e]

This is pretty handy. How were the adjustable ball joints to fit? Were they from Awesome GTI?

 

Ball joints just bolt on like OE, only difference is that they have elongated mounting holes so you can adjust in-out to get to the camber setting you want.  Mine were supplied and fitted by Alex @ AKS Tuning.  Although i fitted mine when the s3 alloy arms went on there's no reason why you couldn't fit these with your oe steel arms 

 

Ref the lower control arms - FWIW i bought mine new (cupra/s3 jobbies) and they came already fitted up with new non-voided console bushes in.  Cant' remember exactly but they weren't *that* expensive..

 

Yes, TT arms are different - fit these and you'll get min -2degrees negative camber and you'll need to be careful on wheel width/offset to avoid any rubbing on full lock if you are lowered.  It'll turn-in great though  The S3/cupra arms are geometrically the same as the oe vRS jobbies so are are better option IMO.  I had both..

Edited 15 April, 2015 by rob_e