PCN on the windscreen. Opinions, advice etc?

[cheezemonkhai]

Do let us know what happens

[ben1990]

I will do  . Got plenty of grounds for appeal so the adjudicator may just tell me I have won just to shut me up 

[gadgetman]

Good luck.

[mdon]

I doubt the council will send anyone. They never do.

[ben1990]

Most likely because it would cost them as much as the pcn amount

[Brimma]

It's often the case that if you make yourself a huge PITA they'll not bother

[ben1990]

I plan not to go that far  . At least I would have had the decency of turning up

[cheezemonkhai]

I plan not to go that far  . At least I would have had the decency of turning up

 

If they don't show and you win, can you get your expenses/costs for attending?

[ben1990]

Only if the council have acted unreasonably but that is something I will be asking should the opportunity arise. I can't really come across as scathing the council during the hearing so it is probably upto the adjudicator as to whether I can claim costs. 

[Jigger72]

It beggars belief that the council would even reject your first appeal. Applying just a micro-atom of common sense, they would be able to see that i) you've paid for a ticket so aren't trying to dodge a parking fee, ii) you're not local so it's not outside the boundaries of reality to assume that you're not familiar with the two-tier parking system, (ii) the signage is at best, confusing, and actually could be construed as misleading, iv) the car park was nearly empty so you weren’t taking up much-needed space.

 

I really hope you win this one because it’s a joke. I will warn you though, I went to adjudication years ago after a resident parking permit incident and lost.

 

We parked our car up the street and sometimes didn’t even see it for weeks at a time. We lived in an area of London that had buses, tube, trains nearby and everything we needed was in the other direction. We went on holiday for two weeks and on return went to use the car and it was clamped. It was then I noticed the ‘Parking suspension’ notices.

 

My argument was that this was unfair as I was on holiday at the time the notices went up and I had a valid parking permit so wasn’t trying to scam anyone or cause a nuisance. I also asked why letters weren't sent out to people on the permits database for that street? A £100 fine seemed like a proper kick in the teeth for doing nothing wrong. Expecting common sense to prevail, I appealed, once, twice, then three times at the adjudication with a snotty lawyer who clearly didn’t like the look of me and decided after 5 minutes I was guilty. It cost me about £140 in all. This was Islington Council, who 2 years later were fined for heavy-handed tactics issuing PCNs. Barstewards

Edited 10 July, 2015 by Jigger72

[ben1990]

It was busy at the time of parking but as mentioned earlier, we cost the council exactly £0 by parking there and the car park was nearly empty when we returned to the car. I think it is luck of the draw on the day to be fair. I will be attending in person so I can answer anything that comes my way. On the other end of the scale for adjudicators, I have seen a couple of cases where people have opted for a face to face hearing, the council haven't shown up and the adjudicator has basically said, 'you have won'.

[cheezemonkhai]

It beggars belief that the council would even reject your first appeal. Applying just a micro-atom of common sense, they would be able to see that i) you've paid for a ticket so aren't trying to dodge a parking fee, ii) you're not local so it's not outside the boundaries of reality to assume that you're not familiar with the two-tier parking system, (ii) the signage is at best, confusing, and actually could be construed as misleading, iv) the car park was nearly empty so you weren’t taking up much-needed space.

 

I really hope you win this one because it’s a joke. I will warn you though, I went to adjudication years ago after a resident parking permit incident and lost.

 

We parked our car up the street and sometimes didn’t even see it for weeks at a time. We lived in an area of London that had buses, tube, trains nearby and everything we needed was in the other direction. We went on holiday for two weeks and on return went to use the car and it was clamped. It was then I noticed the ‘Parking suspension’ notices.

 

My argument was that this was unfair as I was on holiday at the time the notices went up and I had a valid parking permit so wasn’t trying to scam anyone or cause a nuisance. I also asked why letters weren't sent out to people on the permits database for that street? A £100 fine seemed like a proper kick in the teeth for doing nothing wrong. Expecting common sense to prevail, I appealed, once, twice, then three times at the adjudication with a snotty lawyer who clearly didn’t like the look of me and decided after 5 minutes I was guilty. It cost me about £140 in all. This was Islington Council, who 2 years later were fined for heavy-handed tactics issuing PCNs. Barstewards

 

Islington are car hating t..ts in my opinion.

 

I had to pay £60 islington tax for being in a yellow box.

I was only in it because as I was pulling forward a council van cut me up and pulled into the space I was going into, although at the time it was cheaper to pay up and spend time fighting it.

[gadgetman]

I doubt the council will send anyone. They never do.

Nearly all hearings are now held by video link

[ben1990]

Nearly all hearings are now held by video link

No mention of video hearing on any forms. 3 options were no hearing, telephone hearing and personal hearing. We shall see. Forms have been sent today

[ben1990]

Good luck but I think it'll be a case of Council 1, Tourist 0.

Update time. Take the score above and reverse. Council have decided not to contest the case so I win by default  . I guess they didn't fancy their chances  :p.

[Brimma]

Update time. Take the score above and reverse. Council have decided not to contest the case so I win by default . I guess they didn't fancy their chances :p.

Or more likely you ****ed them off so much they just couldn't be bothered

[ben1990]

Or just pointed out their procedural errors  :p. Either suits me

[ben1990]

Another minor update, received a letter from Pendle council today and they admit to overlooking the fact that I had paid for a P&D ticket. They even enclosed a free parking disc for use next time we are in the area

[silver1011]

No mention of improving the signage to prevent it happening again then?

[ben1990]

Nope. The letter seems to indirectly acknowledge the confusion but definitely no mention of possible signage changes

[GentleGiant]

This makes me wish I had pushed my appeal against Burnley councils PCN a bit further; I wasnt aware you could ask to appear via video-link.

 

In my case it was on-road parking, with the nearest sign stating the parking restriction hours being placed over 200 meters away - tucked away in a corner and 5 meters up - where no car driver could ever see it !!

[ben1990]

It does depend on the grounds of appeal you think you have. Adjudicators can only cancel a pcn when there are legal grounds of appeal. They can only advise council's to cancel if you are only appealing on mitigating circumstances. On my TPT appeal form I flagged up 3 procedural errors from the council plus the signage issues. I hope not to have to do it all again but I feel I would be better prepared. On the same note if anyone needs help contesting a council pcn, I will be more than happy to help

[gadgetman]

Nope. The letter seems to indirectly acknowledge the confusion but definitely no mention of possible signage changes

Might be worth contacting the local paper for the area, or if it's part of Johnston press, you're local paper - as it'll be printed in both editions

[ben1990]

From what I gather, the car park we were in is fairly new as a building has been knocked down in the last few years. Most likely the P&D sign that was next to the disc area has been there since the car park opened and no-one bothered to move it when the disc car park opened. 

[gadgetman]

Article I posted earlier said the council were to drop the disc system because it was too confusing against pay & display.